Hi,I recently bought a new 5th wheel and truck to tow it. I got a 40 foot Open Range with a 2500 pound pin weight. I was looking at fairly loaded SRW long bed diesels from Ford, Chevy and Ram. I ended up getting the Ram due to the much higher payload. The Fords and Chevys that I was looking at had max payloads (from the door sticker) around 3400 pounds, while the similarly equipped Ram had a pay load of 4200 pounds. My thought was that with the camper and truck fully loaded I would be pushing up against the max payload of the Chevy and Ford (even though I liked them a bit better). So my setup now, even when fully loaded, will provide me close to 1000 pounds of margin I would guess. Theoretically should my truck do a better job of towing my trailer given that I am significantly below the max payload vs the Chevy or Ford that would be right up near their max? I would guess that would be the case from a logical perspective. My other question is what would make there be such a big difference in payload between the Ford/Chevy and the Ram? For similarly equipped models (and all long bed, quad cab diesels with automatic transmissions) the difference is about 800 pounds. That is not a small difference. What would be so drastically different with the Ram to justify such a higher rating? Is there something inherint in their design (solid front axel for instance) that makes it more capable of hauling more weight? I assume that the three trucks are all rated against the same standards. ThanksMatt

Not sure what exactly you have, but as far as I know for that kind of payload a Ram has to be a gas engine, not a Diesel. IIRC the max payload on a Diesel is a little below 3200lbs.

2500# pin??? Is that advertised unloaded? What was the rear axle rating of each, also did you get a 2500 or 3500?With a 5er you are using almost 0% of your front axle capacity. It's all about what your rear axle capacity is.

OH WOW! Good luck with this setup.The one OR I looked at has a GVWR over 16,000 pounds. That could translate to over 3200 pounds using the basic 20% rule. Your going to be overloading tires before you get done loading that trailer. Of course that means exceeding the mfg GVWR numbers. With a fifth wheel tow rating is meaningless. All trucks can TOW far more than they can carry.

OP has to have a 3500, to get that much payload. The 2500 would just be wt of truck as it left factory minus the class 2 10,000 GVWR limit. The rear axle wt ratings should be similar between the 350/3500 models. The Ram may have a little higher GVWR on their 3500s? In any case, the OP made a good choice for a diesel truck, if it can handle the actual loaded pin wt, which will be much more than the 2500 lbs mentioned.Jerry

Since you have already spent the money, load your rig and scale it. That will put you in the 1% that actually (maybe 10%) know the weights. Then hit the road for a while, and see what you think. Don't waste metal capacity with a guess, when for less than $20 you can know.

Max Payload vs. Pin Weight (Ford, Ram, Chevy) | Good Sam Community

jkwilson
Explorer III
Sep 21, 2018
Not sure what exactly you have, but as far as I know for that kind of payload a Ram has to be a gas engine, not a Diesel. IIRC the max payload on a Diesel is a little below 3200lbs.
Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Sep 21, 2018
2500# pin??? Is that advertised unloaded?

What was the rear axle rating of each, also did you get a 2500 or 3500?

With a 5er you are using almost 0% of your front axle capacity. It's all about what your rear axle capacity is.
donn0128
Explorer II
Sep 21, 2018
OH WOW! Good luck with this setup.
The one OR I looked at has a GVWR over 16,000 pounds. That could translate to over 3200 pounds using the basic 20% rule. Your going to be overloading tires before you get done loading that trailer. Of course that means exceeding the mfg GVWR numbers. With a fifth wheel tow rating is meaningless. All trucks can TOW far more than they can carry.
MFL
Nomad II
Sep 21, 2018
OP has to have a 3500, to get that much payload. The 2500 would just be wt of truck as it left factory minus the class 2 10,000 GVWR limit. The rear axle wt ratings should be similar between the 350/3500 models. The Ram may have a little higher GVWR on their 3500s? In any case, the OP made a good choice for a diesel truck, if it can handle the actual loaded pin wt, which will be much more than the 2500 lbs mentioned.

Jerry
thomas201
Explorer
Sep 21, 2018
Since you have already spent the money, load your rig and scale it. That will put you in the 1% that actually (maybe 10%) know the weights. Then hit the road for a while, and see what you think. Don't waste metal capacity with a guess, when for less than $20 you can know.
BarryG20
Explorer
Sep 21, 2018
My 2017, 3500, diesel, Auto trans, CC, long bed, 4x4, SRW Ram has a payload sticker of 4365 so no it doesn't have to be a 2wd gas setup to get that.

The tires are rated at 3640lbs.

If I recall my empty weight on the rear is along the lines of 3500lbs I have a tool box (200lbs), a headache rack (150lbs) and includes my b&w hitch (150lbs), and a b&w hidden gooseneck mount (75lbs). The toolbox and rack some of that weight is on the front axle since they are directly behind the cab.

Real question is which 5vr does he have as they have 5 or 6 different lines some are much lighter than others. If the pin weight is going to be 3200lbs as previously suggested could certainly be close or over. If he has taken into account the added pin weight and added to the brochure spec already then he would be fine.

However you didnt ask about those questions and regardless of all that I have no idea why the other brands would have so much less payload, 3400 does seem light to me. As far as tow ability I doubt you will see much difference while towing. Hp is HP, torque is torque, braking is braking and in those regards they are pretty similar. Unloaded you may find the higher payload truck rides a bit stiffer and maybe not. As you put it logically it would stand to reason that it would fare better if it wasn't working at max capacity but seems logic falls out the window many times. I am not sure I would expect any real difference in capabilities beyond the payload factor.
bowler1
Explorer
Sep 21, 2018
OP here...

First, thanks for the replies.

However, I think a few of you did not actually read the post. Here are some responses:

Yes, it is a 3500.

Yes, it does have a 4200 pound pay load (from the door sticker)

Yes, it is a diesel.

No, I am not asking if I can tow this safely.

Yes, I am asking if the extra margin I have between my loaded pin weight and the payload capacity will help the truck to tow better than if I had a Ford/Chevy where the loaded pin weight was close to but still below the max capacity (within 200 pounds).

Comments:

My 2500 pound pin weight is the factory spec. I realize that the actual weight will be much higher. Here is my rough math: I estimate an additional 00 pounds. Now I would be at 3000 pounds. Add driver of 200 pounds and 200 pounds cargo (no passengers) and I am at 3400 pounds. Max pay load of 4200 - 3400 = 800 pounds margin.

Is that exact? No. But close enough to know that I am still under the max payload and still have margin, where with the Ford or Chevy I would be pretty close to (if not already) maxed out.

I will take it to a scale and weigh it just for curiosity sake. Not selling the truck or the trailer.
donn0128
Explorer II
Sep 21, 2018
Your making an awful lot of assumptions here. Why not load the truck like your going on a trip and drive across a set of scales for the REAL weight? I think you will be surprised. The sticker on the drivers door post gives you the MFG GVWR. Subtracting your TRUE scaled weight from the MFG GVWR will give you a real honest max cargo carrying capacity. Thats what you have to work with.
JIMNLIN
Explorer III
Sep 21, 2018
Not so fast on using some of the new gen trucks GVWR for figuring payloads....especially a 3500 SRW Ram with 12300 lb GVWR. Figuring payloads with this truck can over load the trucks 7000 RAWR...tire/wheel and rear spring pack. This is the folly of using a GVWR to figure payloads in the bed of a pickup truck.

There is no gaz or diezul 3500 SRW Ram that can carry 4200 lbs in the bed of the truck without exceeding its 7000 lb gvwr. Doing the simple math may show the truck rear axle may weigh 3300-3500 lbs. Now add 4200 lbs in the bed as your payload = up to 7700 lbs.

Ford...GM...Ram all have 7000/7050 or 7230 RAWR and all will have similar in the bed payloads so depending on cab/2wd vs 4wd/etc about the most in the bed payloads can run in the 3500-3600 lbs range.

Always weigh your trucks front and rear axles separately that way you will know how much load is on each axle/wheel/tire/spring pack.
MFL
Nomad II
Sep 21, 2018
Jim is correct, while the payload of the Ram may be higher, the RAWR/tire rating is the deciding factor to carry pin wt of a FW. This is why I mentioned the big 3 having similar capability, when the rear axle is carrying the added load.

Jerry