No drought in Washington eh....

wnjj wrote:

RambleOnNW wrote:
I have to laugh when I read some of the typical naive postings. Fact is the CO2 level is at 400 ppm and that has not occurred for at least 800,000 years; some scientific sources say 2-15 million years.

The simple fact that the temperature hasn't gone up they way the CO2 level has seems to imply that they don't correlate too well. It makes a nice scare story, though.

Not only that but when I looked at the actual data, higher CO2 levels were lagging (i.e. caused by) temperature increases, not the other way around.

Nice try, but how do you explain how the higher CO2 levels are leading the temperature increases this time around?

The answer is that the previous temperature changes were driven by Interglacials that come along approximately every 100,000 years. This is called the Milankovitch cycle, brought on by changes in the Earth's orbit. Note also that the CO2 levels never exceeded 300 ppm.



This time the temperature changes are not driven by the Milankovitch cycle, but by CO2 emissions.

To claim that the CO2 lag disproves the warming effect of CO2 displays a lack of understanding of the processes that drive Milankovitch cycles. A review of the peer reviewed research into past periods of deglaciation tells us several things:

Deglaciation is not initiated by CO2 but by orbital cycles

CO2 amplifies the warming which cannot be explained by orbital cycles alone

CO2 spreads warming throughout the planet

News story the other night reported that because of the drought and the fact that so much ground water has been pumped out that parts of Southern/Central Ca has actually dropped 1-2 inches per month in elevation.
SOOO
Then I come across this article..
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-groundwater-20140822-story.html

So according to this article the because of the drought has caused Earth's surface to rise ???

RambleOnNW wrote:
I have to laugh when I read some of the typical naive postings. Fact is the CO2 level is at 400 ppm and that has not occurred for at least 800,000 years; some scientific sources say 2-15 million years.

The simple fact that the temperature hasn't gone up they way the CO2 level has seems to imply that they don't correlate too well. It makes a nice scare story, though.

Not only that but when I looked at the actual data, higher CO2 levels were lagging (i.e. caused by) temperature increases, not the other way around.

amandasgramma wrote:

csamayfield55 wrote:

donn0128 wrote:
Fires are part of our forests ecosystem. Most of the property losses can be attributed to several issues, among them people building where they should not. No fire breaks near their homes. And number one, envirowackos who have prevented forest managment. Several years ago Deschutes NF and the enviros had finally come up with a plan. Problem was it was too late. The fires that swept west of Sisters destroyed thousands of acres of marketable timber. Now driving hwy 20 between Sisters and HooDoo is black. Scars that will be there for the next 50 years.

Sir, as a person that grew up in Redmond I can not give you enough pluses for your post but here are a few anyway!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ infinity!!

Chris

I'm with you, too!!! To add to it, the idea to NOT do anything with the burned timber still burns me up. All those dead trees just standing there when they COULD have been logged! What a waste!

Boy, I hear that!! We have friends that have a few hundred acres in norther california that was hit by a fire last year. before they had the fire out they had lumber sellers in figuring out what to do. They were able to harvest all the burned timber and gave them enough to reforest their land and still put mney in their pocket.
We let the Forrest service or BLM try and make those decisions it takes them years! Long enough that all the timber that could have been used is ruined then piled up and burned as slash piles AFTER it brings in bugs that destroy the timber that hasn't not been burned!!

This whole thing is about control plain and simple! If you want to delude yourself into believing all these climate change nut jobs go for it. Keep driving your little Prius that is in it's self an ecological disaster and telling all your friends your doing the right thing!! Every time they are proved wrong they will just change their story
Chris

csamayfield55 wrote:

donn0128 wrote:
Fires are part of our forests ecosystem. Most of the property losses can be attributed to several issues, among them people building where they should not. No fire breaks near their homes. And number one, envirowackos who have prevented forest managment. Several years ago Deschutes NF and the enviros had finally come up with a plan. Problem was it was too late. The fires that swept west of Sisters destroyed thousands of acres of marketable timber. Now driving hwy 20 between Sisters and HooDoo is black. Scars that will be there for the next 50 years.

Sir, as a person that grew up in Redmond I can not give you enough pluses for your post but here are a few anyway!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ infinity!!

Chris

I'm with you, too!!! To add to it, the idea to NOT do anything with the burned timber still burns me up. All those dead trees just standing there when they COULD have been logged! What a waste!

as i remember the news reports, stating that the ipcc scientist were tampering with the data to promote their thesis on global warming, shortly thereafter we started hearing climate change. the u.s. has cut their emissions by 90% since the epa was formed. of the remaining 10% each percent will cost 900 times that already spent. now if the efforts were used to clean the air of emissions spewed by china and other nations. we would get another 90% improvement. that would make a difference in man made emissions. one country cannot do it all by themselves. especially when the cost to jobs and business is devastating to the working class job market. everyone is wanting a higher minimum wage, if there were a shortage of qualified workers. employers would have to pay more.. as it is, employees are easy and cheep to replace.. it's all supply and demand... ship jobs overseas... wages are depressed. simple economics. the same goes for cleaning up the air and using alternate energy. make it cost effective and everyone will do it.. waiting for tesla to build a small pickup...
let the forest be managed and the fire danger would be minimized. won't be removed as hot dry air and lots of burnable material is a recipe for major fires. can't wait for the El Niño that is building to bring rain to the northwest.

Rather than focus on climate change, I suggest we put our energy into educating others about the extreme fire risk currently present in the western states.
With the rains that the mid-west and east coast is getting, it is possible that some folks visiting from those regions of the country may not be fully aware of just how bad it is here.
And there is a lot that we can do to relieve the current burden on fire fighting resources such as not having campfires (even in places where it might be permitted), being careful not to drive and park on dry vegetation, watching where the generator is placed, and not towing a vehicle with a flat tire (cause of the recent Warm Springs fire).
Just my thoughts.

Oh yea, no smoke in Bend today for the first time in over two weeks.

As our friend Smokey says; "Only you can..........."
So please be careful out there.

Those folks always kinda disappear when it becomes obvious they were wrong...or they repeatedly vote to repeal what is working. That is denial in it's worst form.

Anyone who thinks climate change isn't real and a looming threat to all living things on this planet has their head buried in the sand. Governments and individuals need to start looking at ways to adapt to the effects of climate change now, not in the future when it will be too late.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is the leading international body for the assessment of climate change, established by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) in 1988 to provide the world with a clear scientific view on the current state of knowledge in climate change and its potential environmental and socio-economic impacts. There is a wealth of information on the IPCC website and you can read 3 reports under the heading Climate Change 2014.

We've hardly had any rain here (just east of Vancouver BC) in months and it has very warm for quite a while. We have a small tree farm and it's not looking good for many of our trees and some have died. Our well is getting low and we may have to get a truck in to fill it. Have never seen it this dry and warm for so long around here in my lifetime.

Back on July 7th, I posted on RV.net that it was shaping up to be a bad forest fire season. We've still got a couple of months to go. The BC Gov'y allocated $63 million for fighting forest fires this year and has now spent $198 million. News story here. We've still got a couple of months left in the forest fire season...

The convo I am referring to began in May, obgraham.


https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28361018/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1.cfm


Gary Haupt