well i have the htich finally dialed
i assume that the front end dropping is more of a ballpark figure and weights on the scale give you exact numbers, sort of like in racing at the drag strip, guys have certain horsepower on the dyno but since all dynos are different (just like trucks suspensions) until you get on the track to prove the time your horsepower is just a ballpark.
check and re checked the trailer 3 different times now, have the sway cam lobes perfectly centre on the bars, I angled the hitch head much more then before, grabbing the last tooth on the head so there are no exposed teeth. front end raised about 3/16" on one side lowered 1/16" on the other, i was however on a bit of a side slope where i checked.
scale measurement for front diff came in at 4730# not hooked up
came in a little lighter at 4550# when the truck was hitched with WD bars
rear diff was loaded with quite a bit of weight 3718# unhitched
and hitched up with WD bars 5100# hitched up with WD bars
here is two pictures of how i set up the hitch head
truck squat 1 1/4" at the ball when i put the trailer on it with the WD bars leaving it at a height of 30 3/4" about 3/4" lower then level. not sure if i should go to a 2" rise ball or not.
truck seemed to handle awesome on the highway, in town taking corners more tight the hitch does make a lot of noise, not unexpected but it does seem a bit excessive wondering how normal this is, going to try the Vaseline next time i go out.
i am kind of driving myself nuts i feel with checking and rechecking all the time, seems as if everytime i need to change something, starting to drive me insane, im going to leave the trailer and go from there.
on a side not with the new bigger raise shank the old crappy tailgate i have on there while my 2014 gets sprayed does not hit, hoping the new one will not either.
thanks a ton for your help john, i definitely would not have as solid an install as i do now without your help or as stable a tow rig.
next thing im not sure if you can help me cover is my varying TWs and how i can counter them
i assume that the front end dropping is more of a ballpark figure and weights on the scale give you exact numbers, sort of like in racing at the drag strip, guys have certain horsepower on the dyno but since all dynos are different (just like trucks suspensions) until you get on the track to prove the time your horsepower is just a ballpark.
check and re checked the trailer 3 different times now, have the sway cam lobes perfectly centre on the bars, I angled the hitch head much more then before, grabbing the last tooth on the head so there are no exposed teeth. front end raised about 3/16" on one side lowered 1/16" on the other, i was however on a bit of a side slope where i checked.
scale measurement for front diff came in at 4730# not hooked up
came in a little lighter at 4550# when the truck was hitched with WD bars
rear diff was loaded with quite a bit of weight 3718# unhitched
and hitched up with WD bars 5100# hitched up with WD bars
here is two pictures of how i set up the hitch head
truck squat 1 1/4" at the ball when i put the trailer on it with the WD bars leaving it at a height of 30 3/4" about 3/4" lower then level. not sure if i should go to a 2" rise ball or not.
truck seemed to handle awesome on the highway, in town taking corners more tight the hitch does make a lot of noise, not unexpected but it does seem a bit excessive wondering how normal this is, going to try the Vaseline next time i go out.
i am kind of driving myself nuts i feel with checking and rechecking all the time, seems as if everytime i need to change something, starting to drive me insane, im going to leave the trailer and go from there.
on a side not with the new bigger raise shank the old crappy tailgate i have on there while my 2014 gets sprayed does not hit, hoping the new one will not either.
thanks a ton for your help john, i definitely would not have as solid an install as i do now without your help or as stable a tow rig.
next thing im not sure if you can help me cover is my varying TWs and how i can counter them
Hi Steve,
Here is the other larger rise/drop shank and dimensions.
Here you can see there is 5" from top bolt to top of ball. Note: This is the 3 piece head with 1 1/4" hi rise ball. Your new all cast head is about 1/2" higher. But you only have a 1" rise. So call your head 5 1/4" to top of ball from top bolt
And here is the sketch again on the small rise shank
Now the large drop/rise shank. Note: I have this in drop mode but you can see the dimensions from the top of shank to center of the holes. If you add 5 1/4" from the top hole you want to pick on that shank, it will tell you how high you will be above the top of the shank on the truck
And your truck, ground to top of shank is 21 3/8"
Since the actual hitch head has 3.75" between the bolts, you can really only adjust the head up in 3 positions.
So in shank rise mode using 5 1/4" on your 1 piece cast head with 1" high rise ball, and 21 3/8" truck height
Lowest position is: 10.5" top of shank to top of ball + 21.38 = 31.88
Next position up is: 11.75" top of shank to top of ball + 21.38 = 33.13
Highest position up is: 13" top of shank to top of ball + 21.38 = 34.38
Since your trailer is 31.5" ball height + 1.5" for squat = 33" ground to top of ball on the truck before WD. That larger rise shank in the second hole from the top should do it. And you can go up 1 hole and down one hole if you need. It should work out about perfect.
Now to the serrated washer tilt. This head is the older 3 piece head. My all cast head is at my sons house. As you can see, the slot cuts out a large part of the serrations as it is.
Full forward tilt
Full rear tilt
The serrated washer on full rear tilt.
Hope this helps
John
Here is the other larger rise/drop shank and dimensions.
Here you can see there is 5" from top bolt to top of ball. Note: This is the 3 piece head with 1 1/4" hi rise ball. Your new all cast head is about 1/2" higher. But you only have a 1" rise. So call your head 5 1/4" to top of ball from top bolt
And here is the sketch again on the small rise shank
Now the large drop/rise shank. Note: I have this in drop mode but you can see the dimensions from the top of shank to center of the holes. If you add 5 1/4" from the top hole you want to pick on that shank, it will tell you how high you will be above the top of the shank on the truck
And your truck, ground to top of shank is 21 3/8"
Since the actual hitch head has 3.75" between the bolts, you can really only adjust the head up in 3 positions.
So in shank rise mode using 5 1/4" on your 1 piece cast head with 1" high rise ball, and 21 3/8" truck height
Lowest position is: 10.5" top of shank to top of ball + 21.38 = 31.88
Next position up is: 11.75" top of shank to top of ball + 21.38 = 33.13
Highest position up is: 13" top of shank to top of ball + 21.38 = 34.38
Since your trailer is 31.5" ball height + 1.5" for squat = 33" ground to top of ball on the truck before WD. That larger rise shank in the second hole from the top should do it. And you can go up 1 hole and down one hole if you need. It should work out about perfect.
Now to the serrated washer tilt. This head is the older 3 piece head. My all cast head is at my sons house. As you can see, the slot cuts out a large part of the serrations as it is.
Full forward tilt
Full rear tilt
The serrated washer on full rear tilt.
Hope this helps
John
Steve, OK now under stand your, no squat...
Sorry, I'm only listening to the words and troubleshooting from there forward. No worries, we will get it.
Now after understanding you are are saying/trying to do, Well OK that is not yet a bad thing. We normally do not do the test you tried. The spring deflection rate on those bars might be very short in stroke. They are for sure stiff. It may only take 1.5 to 2" down of the head to create a lot of force. In fact yes I'm sure of this, I'll have to look for the squat number on mine.
This is what we where asking for the fender heights unhitch and hitched. We can then tell what is going on, or not, when you apply WD. You can see it in the numbers.
If you let the truck hold the entire dead weight of the camper, no tongue jack holding load, then the WD bar snap should be immense in pull up pressure which is why we want to jack it up. You can try this but do not attempt a full pull up with the pipe.
And if you try and do this and it snaps up easy, then there is for sure an issue as the bars are not loaded enough. Need more head tilt.
Your comment about "I had almost max head tilt already towards the trailer", I'm not seeing that in your pic. You have very little rear tilt.
This pic of yours, I'm estimating is about 5 to 8 degrees rear tilt.
Your hitch head can go all the way to 14 degrees rear tilt. See here, this is the older 3 piece head that goes to 15 deg, but your does 14. This is using the full radial slot
This is OK. There will be enough teeth left engaged to do the work.
I will measure the long shank tonight and I have a spare head to show this. Or is it at my sons house... I'll look and take a pic if I have it. Be back later.
No problem, You are working through this trying to understand and create a good stable towing setup. We commend you. You keep working this unit the end and we will keep answering. Ask away.
Sorry, I'm only listening to the words and troubleshooting from there forward. No worries, we will get it.
Steve6l wrote:
By not squat at all I meant I did not put any trailer weight onto the truck just had the ball hitched and was able to engage the snap ups with 7 links very easily. I had almost max head tilt already towards the trailer so it seemed odd.
Now after understanding you are are saying/trying to do, Well OK that is not yet a bad thing. We normally do not do the test you tried. The spring deflection rate on those bars might be very short in stroke. They are for sure stiff. It may only take 1.5 to 2" down of the head to create a lot of force. In fact yes I'm sure of this, I'll have to look for the squat number on mine.
This is what we where asking for the fender heights unhitch and hitched. We can then tell what is going on, or not, when you apply WD. You can see it in the numbers.
If you let the truck hold the entire dead weight of the camper, no tongue jack holding load, then the WD bar snap should be immense in pull up pressure which is why we want to jack it up. You can try this but do not attempt a full pull up with the pipe.
And if you try and do this and it snaps up easy, then there is for sure an issue as the bars are not loaded enough. Need more head tilt.
Your comment about "I had almost max head tilt already towards the trailer", I'm not seeing that in your pic. You have very little rear tilt.
This pic of yours, I'm estimating is about 5 to 8 degrees rear tilt.
Your hitch head can go all the way to 14 degrees rear tilt. See here, this is the older 3 piece head that goes to 15 deg, but your does 14. This is using the full radial slot
With the serrated teeth more so I was talking about the washer, can the washer every have teeth exposed to air. The washer in itself is smaller then the serrated patch on the head so the head no matter what will always have teeth exposed to the air.
This is OK. There will be enough teeth left engaged to do the work.
I will measure the long shank tonight and I have a spare head to show this. Or is it at my sons house... I'll look and take a pic if I have it. Be back later.
Sorry for so many questions
Steve
No problem, You are working through this trying to understand and create a good stable towing setup. We commend you. You keep working this unit the end and we will keep answering. Ask away.
Steve Comments in Blue
Steve6l wrote:
however hitch is not setup correct, as per your instructions of having hitch ball head 1"-1 1/2" higher
matter of fact i was out huge...Well Yes you are out. The large drop/rise shank has more adjustment but it will be up in the air. With your camper, may not have much choice. It will just be up there.
trailer level top of ball mount = 31.5"
hitch height top of square= 20 3/4" (slip tank empty, maybe 100 pounds of wood and tools if that)
tv Ball height = 29 1/2" (same weight as above, 1 inch raise ball)
A 31.5" ball height on that Fox. It's up there.... Must be the Toy hauler to have lots of ground clearance. Travel Trailers are not that high, well normally anyway.
now i was baffled when i got trailer level and realized it was a lot higher then the hitch and i wasted $150 on a shank that in the meantime is useless to me. The shank you have is still a good one, just maybe not for the camper. Do you tow anything else? or sell it to recoup some of the $$ Or be like me and have lots of hitches...
Snip...
now i got the TV front fender measurements once setup up to rise 1/4" on both sides, back end dropped 1 3/4" on driver side 2" on passenger side. dont know whats up with that just my measurements. this was later on into the event so numbers could have started to have human error.
The truck is not built dead even left to right. It is common to not have the 2 front or 2 rear fenders the same height. Just think of which side the main Ford fuel tank is on and there is nothing on the other side to offset it.
Point in fender heights is. The left side front and rear as a set and then the right side front and rear as a set.
the 1/4" rise in the front resulted in a 250# decrease in weight on the scales opposed to hitched without the WD bars.
OK this one I'm missing something or it was late and you did a typo. 1/4" rise resulted in 250# less weight on the front. OK that sounds possible.
Now the AS opposed to "hitched" with no WD? H'mm OK need more description. Did this get mixed up?
Was the 250# less from "un-hitched"?
If it is indeed 250# from when NO WD is engaged and hitched, something seems amuck.
realistically what i learned today is you want my ball height 3" height to be proper. i can see how trailer being level will make towing "nicer" on the TV
Yes, level is best. However you can only adjust within 1 hole on the shank. So if WD is sett correct, then you move the hitch head up and down the shank to get:
Ideal= dead level (not always doable)
Next ideal is "slight" nose down as opposed to a lot of nose up?
Meaning if you have to choose 1/2" high or 1/2" low, go 1/2" low. If you are 1" high, that is too high, come down 1 hole. If you are 1" low you can be better being 1/4" high then the full 1" low.
Being a lot nose high can on some campers aggravate sway in certain windy conditions. This is not an absolute, but a guide. The wind hit the high up top and may create instability.
That said, being way too low means the trailer axles can be a lot of uneven loading. The front can be carrying a lot more then the rear. This is where level is best. Both axles are loaded as even as they can be and the wind on the roof does not create instability. In your case, your camper roof if not so blunt nose like a lot of TT's. You have a long taper, it may reach different. Or not
this is now hooked up with TV ball originally at 29.5" i did not get the measurement after it squat prob important but oh well.
these next two are just how my setup looks right now the way i will be towing tomorrow, took 3 tries to get the cam lobes dialed in.
While you still have some setup to work through, the install is good. You now have a good base to adjust from. Good job!
as frustrated as i got today and how mad i was i bought the wrong shank, i made it work i think and it should not have any negative effects besides there being more weight effecting my tounge and the trailer not riding level.
Long term, work towards getting the camper more level. Your axle loads will thank you.
i really do not like how the truck squats, im definitely going to opt for air bags in the near future, then im guessing you set up your WD perfectly once and then just adjust PSI on the bags to obtain the exact same height as original setup.
Before you make the jump to air bags, suggest you stick with the adjusting to get the WD dialed in. Air bag are going to change a lot of things and they really should not be used to make up for improper WD adjustments. Air bags used right, can offer a number of good benefits for large changes in truck bed loads, but only after the WD hitch is set up correct on the lower weight in the truck bed.
if my theory is correct this would be an awesome way to deal with my varying loads and not wanting to readjust hitch all the time. learning a lot about this hitch and i really appreciate your help for that john, will be a lot easier to fix in the future or adjust knowing exactly how the hitch is working.
Yes, is you add 400 to 500# more in the truck bed from nominal "after" WD was originally optimized, then the Air bags can help the rear squat, but only to lift the difference the new added weight gave. If you lift more then the nominal setup, you start unloading the WD and the DC friction lock.
When you get a moment, post your weights and your actual fender heights. I can see more from the raw data on what is going on with the truck.
fwiw in my opinion this hitch greatly improved my confidence behind the wheel. i went on the highway and got the girl moving to 85 mph, felt comfortable, didnt stay there long just wanted to see, without the hitch on i was scared to break 60mph, now cruising at 70mph is a breeze. i cant wait to have it setup perfectly and get bags in there to add a whole new component to the ball game that i have no understanding on how it will effect.
Good for you! Your learning and starting to understand what does what. There is still some more tweaking on the hitch and then there is tire pressure, both on the truck and the camper. The camper needs to be air up to max side wall pressure cold. The truck, that is an experiment. Start with door sticker. I'm running 18" tires LT275/70R18's, the front I tow at 66 psi the rear 76 psi. The brand is Continental Contrac. For a highway tire they do well and the side walls are stiff which is needed for towing.
Tire brand/type and air pressure can make and break a good stable towing rig. But first get the hitch dialed in. .
Oh and one other thing, odds are high you have ST tires on the camper. They are only rated to tow at max 65 mph. Above that the heat will start the tire degradation process all that much faster. Trailer tires... that is another complete post in itself.
Your doing good. We commend you. Most do not take the extra effort.
Have a good camping trip
John
steve
well john im beat,
spent 7 hours today leveling, checking, re checking, moving to a different parking lot, doing it all over again, moving to a flat piece of road, checking again to make sure my measurements were perfect. went to scales once installed and verified my weights were alright.
however hitch is not setup correct, as per your instructions of having hitch ball head 1"-1 1/2" higher
matter of fact i was out huge...
trailer level top of ball mount = 31.5"
hitch height top of square= 20 3/4" (slip tank empty, maybe 100 pounds of wood and tools if that)
tv Ball height = 29 1/2" (same weight as above, 1 inch raise ball)
now i was baffled when i got trailer level and realized it was a lot higher then the hitch and i wasted $150 on a shank that in the meantime is useless to me.
anyways i took lots of pics for you to see, i used a 4 foot level, on 4 points on the frame as well as inside on the floor to determine level. took pics as best i could in 1 inch increments from trailer level with ball height all the way up to trailer level and even 1 inch higher. the ground i used to determine my final heights and level is going to be the spot i continue to make adjustments to keep a constant.
in the meantime i need to tow about 350 miles tomorrow and i need the hitch setup as trailer feels super unsafe without it.
now i did not adjust head tilt at all from where i guessed off the bat, and couldn't go any higher without buying more stuff and at 9pm at night that wasn't going to happen, as well as not having the time before i leave in the morning.
now i got the TV front fender measurements once setup up to rise 1/4" on both sides, back end dropped 1 3/4" on driver side 2" on passenger side. dont know whats up with that just my measurements. this was later on into the event so numbers could have started to have human error.
the 1/4" rise in the front resulted in a 250# decrease in weight on the scales opposed to hitched without the WD bars.
i now flushed the black, grey and water tanks, have them totally empty as im towing to full hook ups, filled my propane bottles for all of this process. ended up giving me the same tounge weight right in the 1400# ball park.
realistically what i learned today is you want my ball height 3" height to be proper. i can see how trailer being level will make towing "nicer" on the TV
trailer length is 21 feet from center in between axles to the ball.
first picture TV ball(29.5") 1" higher then trailer(28.5")
TV ball(29.5") level with trailer(29.5")
TV ball(29.5") 1" lower than trailer(30.5")
TV ball(29.5") 2" lower than trailer(31.5" trailer is now sitting in this picture perfectly level according to my level)
TV ball(29.5") 3" lower than trailer(32.5")
TV ball(29.5") 4" lower than trailer(33.5")
this is now hooked up with TV ball originally at 29.5" i did not get the measurement after it squat prob important but oh well.
these next two are just how my setup looks right now the way i will be towing tomorrow, took 3 tries to get the cam lobes dialed in.
these last two are just more pictures i took at how the camper sits level (TT hitch height of 31.5")
as frustrated as i got today and how mad i was i bought the wrong shank, i made it work i think and it should not have any negative effects besides there being more weight effecting my tounge and the trailer not riding level. i really do not like how the truck squats, im definitely going to opt for air bags in the near future, then im guessing you set up your WD perfectly once and then just adjust PSI on the bags to obtain the exact same height as original setup. if my theory is correct this would be an awesome way to deal with my varying loads and not wanting to readjust hitch all the time. learning a lot about this hitch and i really appreciate your help for that john, will be a lot easier to fix in the future or adjust knowing exactly how the hitch is working.
fwiw in my opinion this hitch greatly improved my confidence behind the wheel. i went on the highway and got the girl moving to 85 mph, felt comfortable, didnt stay there long just wanted to see, without the hitch on i was scared to break 60mph, now cruising at 70mph is a breeze. i cant wait to have it setup perfectly and get bags in there to add a whole new component to the ball game that i have no understanding on how it will effect.
steve
spent 7 hours today leveling, checking, re checking, moving to a different parking lot, doing it all over again, moving to a flat piece of road, checking again to make sure my measurements were perfect. went to scales once installed and verified my weights were alright.
however hitch is not setup correct, as per your instructions of having hitch ball head 1"-1 1/2" higher
matter of fact i was out huge...
trailer level top of ball mount = 31.5"
hitch height top of square= 20 3/4" (slip tank empty, maybe 100 pounds of wood and tools if that)
tv Ball height = 29 1/2" (same weight as above, 1 inch raise ball)
now i was baffled when i got trailer level and realized it was a lot higher then the hitch and i wasted $150 on a shank that in the meantime is useless to me.
anyways i took lots of pics for you to see, i used a 4 foot level, on 4 points on the frame as well as inside on the floor to determine level. took pics as best i could in 1 inch increments from trailer level with ball height all the way up to trailer level and even 1 inch higher. the ground i used to determine my final heights and level is going to be the spot i continue to make adjustments to keep a constant.
in the meantime i need to tow about 350 miles tomorrow and i need the hitch setup as trailer feels super unsafe without it.
now i did not adjust head tilt at all from where i guessed off the bat, and couldn't go any higher without buying more stuff and at 9pm at night that wasn't going to happen, as well as not having the time before i leave in the morning.
now i got the TV front fender measurements once setup up to rise 1/4" on both sides, back end dropped 1 3/4" on driver side 2" on passenger side. dont know whats up with that just my measurements. this was later on into the event so numbers could have started to have human error.
the 1/4" rise in the front resulted in a 250# decrease in weight on the scales opposed to hitched without the WD bars.
i now flushed the black, grey and water tanks, have them totally empty as im towing to full hook ups, filled my propane bottles for all of this process. ended up giving me the same tounge weight right in the 1400# ball park.
realistically what i learned today is you want my ball height 3" height to be proper. i can see how trailer being level will make towing "nicer" on the TV
trailer length is 21 feet from center in between axles to the ball.
first picture TV ball(29.5") 1" higher then trailer(28.5")
TV ball(29.5") level with trailer(29.5")
TV ball(29.5") 1" lower than trailer(30.5")
TV ball(29.5") 2" lower than trailer(31.5" trailer is now sitting in this picture perfectly level according to my level)
TV ball(29.5") 3" lower than trailer(32.5")
TV ball(29.5") 4" lower than trailer(33.5")
this is now hooked up with TV ball originally at 29.5" i did not get the measurement after it squat prob important but oh well.
these next two are just how my setup looks right now the way i will be towing tomorrow, took 3 tries to get the cam lobes dialed in.
these last two are just more pictures i took at how the camper sits level (TT hitch height of 31.5")
as frustrated as i got today and how mad i was i bought the wrong shank, i made it work i think and it should not have any negative effects besides there being more weight effecting my tounge and the trailer not riding level. i really do not like how the truck squats, im definitely going to opt for air bags in the near future, then im guessing you set up your WD perfectly once and then just adjust PSI on the bags to obtain the exact same height as original setup. if my theory is correct this would be an awesome way to deal with my varying loads and not wanting to readjust hitch all the time. learning a lot about this hitch and i really appreciate your help for that john, will be a lot easier to fix in the future or adjust knowing exactly how the hitch is working.
fwiw in my opinion this hitch greatly improved my confidence behind the wheel. i went on the highway and got the girl moving to 85 mph, felt comfortable, didnt stay there long just wanted to see, without the hitch on i was scared to break 60mph, now cruising at 70mph is a breeze. i cant wait to have it setup perfectly and get bags in there to add a whole new component to the ball game that i have no understanding on how it will effect.
steve
Steve,
Here is about turns and the crash point. Your longer hitch shank allows the truck and camper to turn sharper then those with a shorter shank.
That said there is a crash point. Yours will be right about at the 74 degree point on a left turn. You might get a little bit more but not much.
You need to slowly back up, or go forward, and with a spotter watching the hitch, "stop" before the crash point while turning. Then in the truck look at your mirrors. Burn in your brain the image of the side of the camper and in what relation it is to the side the truck. You do not want to be going that far or something can break.
On my truck and wheel base, I have 4 x 4, I can crank the wheel hard and do a 180 turn and never approach this point going forward. BUT, if I back up or go super slow I can go beyond this point. Here lets see what I am talking about.
Here is 74 deg with my prior K2500 Suburban. Look at the hitch. The inside WD bar is starting to go under the frame a lot.
Here is another view, same turn
And here is the outside WD bar. About ready to pop over the cam
And in my case, on the older 3 piece welded head, My WD bar hit the ball nut. And chicped the head. The WD flying out sounded like a shot gun going off follow by the sound of spring steel hitting the concrete, bang...
Your newer head may allow you a few degrees more before this happens. Now this was all "left turning" the more natural way to turn or back up as it is on the driver side.
Turning right, you can only go 65 deg and then the friction sway bar arm is going to hit the A frame. See here
The hit
And if you are using the friction sway bar setup, you hit the ball coupler going LH turn.
So all that said, I have never broke anything since... that one sharp turn in my driveway. Ya know, we too learn the hard way...
So now I do this with the F350, take the bars off and do this hard 180 which requires back up and turning and going forward. No more binding.
Since I have the heavy hitch equipment and the F350, I can do this. But I would not be towing down the road this way. Put the WD bars on.
Hope this helps
John
Here is about turns and the crash point. Your longer hitch shank allows the truck and camper to turn sharper then those with a shorter shank.
That said there is a crash point. Yours will be right about at the 74 degree point on a left turn. You might get a little bit more but not much.
You need to slowly back up, or go forward, and with a spotter watching the hitch, "stop" before the crash point while turning. Then in the truck look at your mirrors. Burn in your brain the image of the side of the camper and in what relation it is to the side the truck. You do not want to be going that far or something can break.
On my truck and wheel base, I have 4 x 4, I can crank the wheel hard and do a 180 turn and never approach this point going forward. BUT, if I back up or go super slow I can go beyond this point. Here lets see what I am talking about.
Here is 74 deg with my prior K2500 Suburban. Look at the hitch. The inside WD bar is starting to go under the frame a lot.
Here is another view, same turn
And here is the outside WD bar. About ready to pop over the cam
And in my case, on the older 3 piece welded head, My WD bar hit the ball nut. And chicped the head. The WD flying out sounded like a shot gun going off follow by the sound of spring steel hitting the concrete, bang...
Your newer head may allow you a few degrees more before this happens. Now this was all "left turning" the more natural way to turn or back up as it is on the driver side.
Turning right, you can only go 65 deg and then the friction sway bar arm is going to hit the A frame. See here
The hit
And if you are using the friction sway bar setup, you hit the ball coupler going LH turn.
So all that said, I have never broke anything since... that one sharp turn in my driveway. Ya know, we too learn the hard way...
So now I do this with the F350, take the bars off and do this hard 180 which requires back up and turning and going forward. No more binding.
Since I have the heavy hitch equipment and the F350, I can do this. But I would not be towing down the road this way. Put the WD bars on.
Hope this helps
John
Steve,
Comments below
For your newer WD bars, that is correct. The round cam fits in the V of the WD bar and touches front and rear. The V finds the natural center of the diameter.
See here on mine. The 1,700# WD bars have a different bend in the V however the same end result. The V finds it's natural home. Don't pay attention to the dimensions, they where from another post we where working on about spring force in a turn. Does not apply here. The pic was right for your question.
Also here are some tips for setting up the DC
Once you get the WD set, and in this process get the DC "close" just not way off as being way off does change the spring tension.
To set the DC you have to track the truck straight for a good 100 feet. Site an object in the distance and head straight to it.
Find the spot
Turn and head to it
Then the trailer will track straight behind the truck, stop at the ~ 75 to 100 foot mark, get out.
Bend down and look in the DC chain plate. Get a flash light.
This is "Wrong" There is an air space on the back side. Measure the distance you think you need to move that side. Then go check the other side. It may be different and the opposite direction.
Once you know how much each cam arm needs to move and in which direction, jack up the truck and camper, take the weight off the chains and unsnap the chains. Adjust the cams, lock the nuts, hook back up, drive around and check again. It might take you a few times to nail it.
Good luck and your welcome
John
Comments below
Steve6l wrote:
first thing is you said max turn of 77 degrees or so, i can go plus of 90 degrees turning forwards with my truck without hitting trailer. i took a few pictures just to show you below. now is this going to be a problem with the wd setup?
Yes, if you turn that far something is going to break. I'll post in the next post the issues and some tips on how to get around some of it.
also my driveway is super sloped and curves with slopes. how does the wd work with steep incline changes, im talking downhill then uphill creating a giant "U" and dont forget to throw the sharp turn in there? will i risk breaking the hitch?
The hitch loads up and unloads when you go up and over. Go Slow!!! when you get to this extreme situation. Like going up and over a high up RR crossing. Going up is not as bad as just crossing over and going down until the trailer wheels make it over the hump and the back down on the flat. Go slow, let the truck lift from the increased back flex condition and drive on. If you do this real fast, and with 1,700# WD bars, issues may come. Small campers with lighter frames have to be even more carefull. I have not had an issue with this, but I know to go slow over these extreme situations.
i tried to mount the dual sway and snap ups, symmetrically to ball center, dont know if this is proper but made sense to me for either side of the frame to be "torqued" on in the same spots.
i tried to get the chains installed as vertical as possible pretty much touching the LP tanks. oh well should work.
While vertical is best, with the DC there is more forgiveness with a slight chain angle. And since you bolted the snapups on, they will not slide forward. If you did not have the DC, then being vertical is a lot more critical as on the standard WD hitch, no DC, the chain swings with the WD bar in a turn and can bind up in the snap up during large turns.
dual cam brackets got pretty flush to bottom of frame with 2 washers per bolt thanks for the recommendation
Good job on the fit up to the frame. No sq corner bind and flush with the bottom. You get an A +!
in this picture you can see the u-bolt it has some give and seems as if there was more pressure down on the bar it would pull out seems a little mickey mouse again to me, is this proper or should it be changed?
You need to tighten the U bolt up more. Take up the slack, the chain needs to pivot on the U bolt but not a lot of excess. See here on mine. If you think the nut is going to back off, double nut it
one more question is this the way the dual cam should seat i took the hanger chain off to get a better picture, seems as center as i can make it?
For your newer WD bars, that is correct. The round cam fits in the V of the WD bar and touches front and rear. The V finds the natural center of the diameter.
See here on mine. The 1,700# WD bars have a different bend in the V however the same end result. The V finds it's natural home. Don't pay attention to the dimensions, they where from another post we where working on about spring force in a turn. Does not apply here. The pic was right for your question.
Also here are some tips for setting up the DC
Once you get the WD set, and in this process get the DC "close" just not way off as being way off does change the spring tension.
To set the DC you have to track the truck straight for a good 100 feet. Site an object in the distance and head straight to it.
Find the spot
Turn and head to it
Then the trailer will track straight behind the truck, stop at the ~ 75 to 100 foot mark, get out.
Bend down and look in the DC chain plate. Get a flash light.
This is "Wrong" There is an air space on the back side. Measure the distance you think you need to move that side. Then go check the other side. It may be different and the opposite direction.
Once you know how much each cam arm needs to move and in which direction, jack up the truck and camper, take the weight off the chains and unsnap the chains. Adjust the cams, lock the nuts, hook back up, drive around and check again. It might take you a few times to nail it.
im going to be off to a flat parking lot here in a few hours, the one i found was alright but not perfect and had a bit of a side incline, im hoping i can find better, it seems its very hard to find perfectly level parking lots these days. i guess i have to adjust head tilt, and get my heights today see if its even going to work.
thanks for your help, steve
Good luck and your welcome
John
