Rep. Welch (D, VT) admits government’s flop on ethanol

[ryegatevt]

Commons sense approach to Ethanol!
Ethanol a flop!

[JaxDad]

Grit dog wrote:
A lot of the ethanol issues are with old machines. Some of those issues are not recognizing the issue and taking simple steps to avoid them. Other issues are made up.

My daily driver is a 2016 with a VERY high-tech twin turbo V8 engine with constantly variable valve timing.

I have logged faithfully every drop that got poured into it from new. It uses more gasoline burning E10 than straight gasoline, plus the Ethanol on top of that.

What ‘simple steps’ should I be taking to avoid this? This is not an ‘old machine’ and the facts prove the case otherwise.

[Grit_dog]

Simmer down gents. I’m sure most of your professions could be criticized just like criticizing Caveman’s bread n butter. Unless maybe you’re the pope himself or some other completely selfless career. Other wise if you subscribe to capitalism and succeeding in life financially at all you’re stepping on you d___ when you open your mouth.
A lot of the ethanol issues are with old machines. Some of those issues are not recognizing the issue and taking simple steps to avoid them. Other issues are made up.
We have a higher than average cylinder count in our household, lol. Probably about 10 2 strokes and as many 4 strokes.
The problem is not as grave as someone would make it out to be.
One of the big mowers just started leaking gas out a carb gasket. Ethanol? Idk. It’s probably 30 years old and has had a combination of both fuels for many years. Maybe it’s just old. Still runs fine....

[colliehauler]

I know anything positive about ethanol is frowned upon but I have had no issues running it in my truck. I do not use ethanol gas in my small engines boat, generator, motorcycle, lawn equipment. I believe ethanol helps keep the fuel system clean and helps prevent icing in fuel systems. Where you run into problems is when fuel systems sit for long periods of time and separation occurs. A lot of the Cassie's fuel centers offer non-ethanol fuel as well as e-10. Cenex around here has premium non-ethanol fuel as well.

[wa8yxm]

Jax. you are not the only one. And don't forget the oil that was burned planting, cultivating and harvesting the corn, hauling it to the distillary and grinding it up into mash, fermenting and distilling it.

About the only advantage I can see to alcohol infused gasolien is in the Great Frozen North (And occasionally South) in the winter.. Back in the 1970's before E-xx was in the pumps. I had a car with "Gas Line Freezup" One station near me sold I think e1 or e2 (that is 1 or 2 percent booze) no more gas line freezup. (My Advice Sir, Get De-Icer)

Another ham was describing his car's issues. (Run for like half a mile and stal out restart run another half mile....) well I'm discussing it with another ham who has called a tow for him when he stalls out again, in front of a hardware store. The other ham ask "What can you do about it" after I properly diagnosed gas line freezup.. Well Dry-Gas (Alcohol) is or was, sold by hardware stores. He made it the rest of the way home and went back the next day to buy a case.

Today that does not happen so much thanks to E-10. it's freeze proof.

That's is the ONLY advantage

Oh later. My Daughter's Godfather was lauging at me for overpaying for gas at the "De-Icer" station... Till I towed his ride to the shop for 300 in Fuel Pump from the water in what he was buying.

[JaxDad]

I’m still waiting for a satisfactory explanation of how burning just as much gasoline as before, PLUS some Ethanol as well is helping reduce imported oil or the environment.

It must ‘political science’ because it sure doesn’t seem like regular science to me.

[Tvov]

Dave H M wrote:
:h now i am really confused cus i am the one that is laughing all the way home after seeing the $25 a gallon fuel in the small engine shop.

I am too old to get into a whizzing contest, so this is my last post on this subject. :Z

No need for a "contest", everyone has different experiences.

In the power equipment shops and hardware stores around me they have the one quart containers of pre-mixed fuel for small 2 stroke engines, and now most of them carry special non-mixed, non-ethanol fuel for larger 4 stroke engines in quart sizes. These quarts run about $5-8 each - so I just figure that out to about $25 a gallon.

The special non-mix fuel is designed for long term storage (years) of engines without harming the rubber parts of the fuel system (fuel line, carb gaskets, etc).

[CavemanCharlie]

We have no problems with small engines around here running on Ethanol fuel. I store mine for 6 months and then use them again in the spring.

Now, if you are talking 2 cycle engines that's different. I drain them before winter and take the left over fuel to the recycling center. That has nothing to do with the Ethanol though. It is because the Carburetors get gummy from the oil in the gas.

[Dave_H_M]

:h now i am really confused cus i am the one that is laughing all the way home after seeing the $25 a gallon fuel in the small engine shop.

I am too old to get into a whizzing contest, so this is my last post on this subject. :Z

[soren]

Dave H M wrote:
I am gonna keep my dog on the lease and not let him get in that fight.

however, I fail to see all the hype of small engine problems with E10. I been running it for years without a problem in my small stuff. Course I don't throw it in the corner in the fall and expect it to run well in the spring.

Sure i would run pure gas if it was readily available. however I will not spend my bucks chasing pure gas when the E10 serves me well.

By the way I just cranked my garden tiller up after it sat all winter with 3/4 tank of heavily laced (with my favorite snake oil) fuel and it ran like a wild rabbit.

You might want to stop at any small engine, lawnmower, marine or chainsaw repair shop, and give them your theory as to how ethanol in gas is really "no big deal". After the're done laughing at you, they will walk you to the door, and continue laughing as you drive off.

[Lynnmor]

It's a shame that free enterprise is dead and gone. Those folks that defend and benefit by the ethanol scam don't care a whit about others and think it is great that people are compelled to buy a harmful product they don't want. Joseph Stalin would be so proud.

[Tvov]

Dave H M wrote:
....

By the way I just cranked my garden tiller up after it sat all winter with 3/4 tank of heavily laced (with my favorite snake oil) fuel and it ran like a wild rabbit.

That is why it runs so good - you have to pour additives in the fuel.

[Tvov]

Even Al Gore admitted years ago that ethanol was a flop.

If you live in an area where small engine equipment is not routinely stored for a length of time (like over the winter), sure, it'll run okay and you may not know what we are talking about. But where I am, small engine equipment dealers have large signs saying that any fuel related problems are not covered under warranty, and they have large displays selling fuel additives and special "tool fuel", at $25.00+ per gallon, for use in engines that are not used constantly.

I don't know what to say to farmers growing ethanol corn, but that fuel is killing my small engines - I own a landscaping / lawn mowing service - and something should be changed.

At a minimum, maybe in colder areas allow the sale of "normal" gasoline?

[Dave_H_M]

I am gonna keep my dog on the lease and not let him get in that fight.

however, I fail to see all the hype of small engine problems with E10. I been running it for years without a problem in my small stuff. Course I don't throw it in the corner in the fall and expect it to run well in the spring.

Sure i would run pure gas if it was readily available. however I will not spend my bucks chasing pure gas when the E10 serves me well.

By the way I just cranked my garden tiller up after it sat all winter with 3/4 tank of heavily laced (with my favorite snake oil) fuel and it ran like a wild rabbit.

[azrving]

CavemanCharlie wrote:
OK, I live in farm country and I need to help get rid of some of the myths here. #1 We were growing the corn anyway. We have not put anymore corn in the ground due to Ethanol. We couldn't , Every bit of ground possible was already in corn production. Been that way since the 70's and 80's when the government programs changed and started pushing big corn farms instead of small farms that raised a number of different things. #2 Ethanol has been good for the local economy. Not just for the farmers but, the Ethanol plants themselves hire workers and pay a good wage. Plus, The truckers that haul it. The C02 in your pop is a by product of Ethanol production and a whole industry has sprung up around that. And, another byproduct is a good cattle feed and has started a whole industry around that.

I did't read the whole article and I know that I will never convince any of you to change your minds but, often people forget that for every dollar spent on something there are several more dollars that are made from the off shoots of that original dollar. That is true of any thing. Lets not forget that the health of the economy has nothing at all to do with how a dollar is made by someone. It is how fast that dollar moves around. When the dollars quit moving we have a problem. They need to stay in circulation.

Locally Ethanol has done a lot to keep those dollars circulating. The only reason I can afford to eat, much less go camping, is because of it. I know that you believe that has nothing to do with your personal lives but, it actually does.

But, I have no idea how your lives work either so I don't really expect you to care about mine or anyone elses. That's the American way. Only worry about Number One and stick it to everybody else. Especially these days.

You got that right, a lot of people were having it stuck to them with all the small engine fuel problems but who cares about that. It sounds like you support the broken window fallacy.