Tongue weight & equalizer

[dernst]

I am buying a Ultra Lite 2702ws which has a tongue weight of 800 pounds. My dealer says that an equalizer will be able to reduce the tongue weight in half. Does this seem correct?

[LarryJM]

RinconVTR wrote:

drsteve wrote:

the WDH will transfer/redistribute to the TT axles which is typically in the 15% to 25% of the dead tongue wt.

Incorrect--TW has no bearing. It could be 1000 lb, or it could be zero. The amount transferred depends solely on the spring bars. Your TW scale, btw, would show an increased load on the hitch ball, rather than a reduced load.


Read the entire sticky. It's all there.

Yes, it is all there, but you are not understanding what is being said. Bareny explained it a bit, as have others.

Consider if you have zero tongue weight...no weight is being applied...thus nothing is distributed. Zero = Zero.

Where you are getting crossed up is "tongue weight" and the load actually being applied to the hitch or vehicles rear axle with the WDH connected.

Point also being made about payload and capacity is that the WDH does transfer some weight off the vehicle entirely, the amount that is transferred to the trailer.

In my experience, I have seen as little as 100lbs move the to the trailer and as much as 300lbs, with trailer tongue weights between 500 and 1000lbs.

Should you use this transfer of weight in your calculations? That's up to the driver. But realize the scale is all that matters, as long as you use it and retain the document (printed weight results). It is in fact, a legal document.

So if the scale says you are within all specified capacities (Axle weights, Gross Vehicle weight, and Gross Combined Weight)...you have proof in print that you are legit.

That payload sticker on your door jam is meaningless once you hit the scale, as its derived from the numbers you measure on a scale.

In my post just before yours I linked to a post that had pictures of actual CAT scale tickets for the typical three scale weigh-ins to determine TW and how the WDH has redistributed the weights between the axles. Not sure how it can be any clearer or factual to demonstrate what you, I and others are trying to convey. :W

Larry

[RinconVTR]

drsteve wrote:

the WDH will transfer/redistribute to the TT axles which is typically in the 15% to 25% of the dead tongue wt.

Incorrect--TW has no bearing. It could be 1000 lb, or it could be zero. The amount transferred depends solely on the spring bars. Your TW scale, btw, would show an increased load on the hitch ball, rather than a reduced load.


Read the entire sticky. It's all there.

Yes, it is all there, but you are not understanding what is being said. Bareny explained it a bit, as have others.

Consider if you have zero tongue weight...no weight is being applied...thus nothing is distributed. Zero = Zero.

Where you are getting crossed up is "tongue weight" and the load actually being applied to the hitch or vehicles rear axle with the WDH connected.

Point also being made about payload and capacity is that the WDH does transfer some weight off the vehicle entirely, the amount that is transferred to the trailer.

In my experience, I have seen as little as 100lbs move the to the trailer and as much as 300lbs, with trailer tongue weights between 500 and 1000lbs.

Should you use this transfer of weight in your calculations? That's up to the driver. But realize the scale is all that matters, as long as you use it and retain the document (printed weight results). It is in fact, a legal document.

So if the scale says you are within all specified capacities (Axle weights, Gross Vehicle weight, and Gross Combined Weight)...you have proof in print that you are legit.

That payload sticker on your door jam is meaningless once you hit the scale, as its derived from the numbers you measure on a scale.

[LarryJM]

CAT scale FACTS from THIS POST

Truck only total wt. 4420
Truck with trailer hooked up w/o WDH engaged - Truck total - 4840, trailer axles total - 3980

Resulting in a Tongue wt = 420 currently all as cargo on TV axles

Truck with trailer hooked up and WDH engaged - Truck total 4760, trailer axles total - 4060

Tongue wt. still 420, but only 340 of the 420 tongue wt. is now cargo on truck with the other 80 lbs as increased load on trailer axles.

=> with WDH engaged 80/420 = 19% of TW is carried by the TT axles and is not counted as cargo on the tow vehicle.

Larry

[drsteve]

the WDH will transfer/redistribute to the TT axles which is typically in the 15% to 25% of the dead tongue wt.

Incorrect--TW has no bearing. It could be 1000 lb, or it could be zero. The amount transferred depends solely on the spring bars. Your TW scale, btw, would show an increased load on the hitch ball, rather than a reduced load.


Read the entire sticky. It's all there.

[Hybridhunter]

Tongue weight is part of the load on the truck, how u figure it is not counted against the cargo capacity?

The WDH just determines on which axles the weight is distributed, and yes, some of it ends up back on the trailer axle.

Further to that point, tongue weight affects the use of GAWR's, GVWR, but not GCWR.

[LarryJM]

BarneyS wrote:
You two are arguing semantics. Ron, in his post, tries to distinguish between the terms "Tongue Weight" and "load". The reason for this is that many people (especially the new ones), because they have heard that a trailers tongue weight should be between 10 and 15% of the total trailer weight, think that that WD hitch will take some of that tongue weight away and make the trailer more sway prone. He put that in there to prevent that type of thinking. As he says, the "tongue weight" does not change. Just the "load" resulting from that tongue weight is re-distributed.

Please, lets not get into a "pissen match" over this. 🙂
Barney

Sorry, but I disagree and this all started over the incorrect statement that all the tongue wt. had to be counted against the cargo capacity of the TV which is what I posted was WRONG. That tongue wt while it by itself doesn't change the "LOAD" it puts on the TV is what we are talking about and where that "LOAD" shows up does depend upon the WDH system and how it's adjusted. I don't see where semantics were at issue at least to my way of thinking.

Please re read my original post and what I was saying was wrong and I see nothing that changes that position and in fact your post confirms what I was saying anyway so for that THANKS.

Larry

[BarneyS]

You two are arguing semantics. Ron, in his post, tries to distinguish between the terms "Tongue Weight" and "load". The reason for this is that many people (especially the new ones), because they have heard that a trailers tongue weight should be between 10 and 15% of the total trailer weight, think that that WD hitch will take some of that tongue weight away and make the trailer more sway prone. He put that in there to prevent that type of thinking. As he says, the "tongue weight" does not change. Just the "load" resulting from that tongue weight is re-distributed.

Please, lets not get into a "pissen match" over this. 🙂
Barney

[drsteve]

Reading further, in the same post, Ron says:

It is interesting to note that TT weight and “tongue weight” do not enter into these calculations. The WD hitch does not distribute “tongue weight”. It simply removes load from the TV’s rear axle and distributes it to the TV’s front axle and the TT’s axles.

[LarryJM]

drsteve wrote:

Larry JM wrote:
drsteve wrote:

The tongue weight is still the same, it's still on the hitch, and must still be counted against the cargo capacity of the TV.


While the first half of you statement is true the second half is WRONG. The dead (i.e. what would be measured by something like a Sherline TW scale) tongue weight will not change the amount of that TW that will be "cargo" on the TV will be that dead TW minus what the WDH will transfer/redistribute to the TT axles which is typically in the 15% to 25% of the dead tongue wt.

Larry

Sorry, but that is incorrect--tongue weight doesn't enter into the equation. Read the sticky on WD hitch setup by Ron Gratz. Tongue weight could be zero, and the hitch would still redistribute the same amount of weight.

Sure it does, from Ron's thread you referenced in his first post he explains ....

A weight distribution system enables a tow vehicle to more effectively handle the tongue weight of a trailer by removing some of the load from the tow vehicle's rear axle and distributing it to the tow vehicle's front axle and the trailer's axle(s)[unquote].

That load on the rear axle w/o the WDH engaged includes the tongue wt and the total wt. on the two axles of the Tow Vehicle equals it's wt. w/o the trailer attached plus the tongue wt. When the WDH is engaged that wt. will be less by the amount that the WDH redistributes to the TT axles (i.e. reducing the "ORIGINAL LOAD" ... i.e. tongue wt that was originally cargo against the TV cargo capacity).

Larry

[drsteve]

Larry JM wrote:
drsteve wrote:

The tongue weight is still the same, it's still on the hitch, and must still be counted against the cargo capacity of the TV.


While the first half of you statement is true the second half is WRONG. The dead (i.e. what would be measured by something like a Sherline TW scale) tongue weight will not change the amount of that TW that will be "cargo" on the TV will be that dead TW minus what the WDH will transfer/redistribute to the TT axles which is typically in the 15% to 25% of the dead tongue wt.

Larry

Sorry, but that is incorrect--tongue weight doesn't enter into the equation. Read the sticky on WD hitch setup by Ron Gratz. Tongue weight could be zero, and the hitch would still redistribute the same amount of weight.

[mkirsch]

LarryJM wrote:

drsteve wrote:
The tongue weight is still the same, it's still on the hitch, and must still be counted against the cargo capacity of the TV.

While the first half of you statement is true the second half is WRONG. The dead (i.e. what would be measured by something like a Sherline TW scale) tongue weight will not change the amount of that TW that will be "cargo" on the TV will be that dead TW minus what the WDH will transfer/redistribute to the TT axles which is typically in the 15 to 25 of the dead tongue wt.

Larry

Except, without multiple trips to the scales to figure out exactly what effect the WD hitch has on your rig, you have NO IDEA how much of that TW counts against your payload.

The safe route is to count ALL of the TW against the payload of the vehicle regardless of the effect of the WD hitch. Otherwise you are just guessing.

Ultimately, if you are depending on the WD hitch to keep from overloading the tow vehicle, you need a better tow vehicle.

[Hybridhunter]

dernst wrote:
I am buying a Ultra Lite 2702ws which has a tongue weight of 800 pounds. My dealer says that an equalizer will be able to reduce the tongue weight in half. Does this seem correct?

The tow vehicle still needs to be rated and capable, what was his point?

[LarryJM]

drsteve wrote:
The tongue weight is still the same, it's still on the hitch, and must still be counted against the cargo capacity of the TV.

While the first half of you statement is true the second half is WRONG. The dead (i.e. what would be measured by something like a Sherline TW scale) tongue weight will not change the amount of that TW that will be "cargo" on the TV will be that dead TW minus what the WDH will transfer/redistribute to the TT axles which is typically in the 15% to 25% of the dead tongue wt.

Larry

[Earl_E]

If your tow vehicle can't handle the 800 pounds on the hitch or in the total weight of the vehicle you will be in big trouble. All the above comments are absolutely correct.