Towing Capacity

As Ron G. points out, you are maxing out most of your ratings, but he does not point out your payload capacity problem.

By your own figures in the first post, you only have 800 lbs of payload capacity left over for the trailer's tongue weight. In the first "assumed" set up, you will be over the payload capacity and in the second, just under the payload capacity. So obviously, the 2nd set up would be a better choice.

However, you are very close to maxing out just about every rating of the tow vehicle. Don't you think that it will definitely have a long term negative effect on the tow vehicle...not to mention the driver (you?).

Now I realize that Ron G. is one of our expert seniors here who regularly posts facts rather than possibilities and can back them up with math....however, I never have been a real proponent of the 25% of the tongue weight being transferred back to the trailer as I never found that to be true when I had my TT with the Dual Cam system and also the Hensley Arrow. Maybe I just didn't have it adjusted corectly. I know it does transfers some (maybe 25%..I don't know) to the front tires of the tow vehicle, but 25% back to the trailer? I will defer to his expert knowledge, but will keep my doubts.

In any case, I still propose that you go with something that is lighter and not exceed 80% of the max ratings. It only makes good sense.

Good luck

Ron L.

adamrwinters wrote:
Great info guys, much appreciated! So let me assume I know the actual weights of both TT and TV. Like to hear opinions on both setups, again, let's just assume the numbers are actual.

Set up 1:
Loaded TT 6750# with TW 740#
Loaded TV 6400# plus the TW 740#
So 13890 GCVWR limit is 14000#
7140# GVWR limit is 7200#

Set up 2:
Loaded TT 5800# with TW 650#
Loaded TV 6400# plus the TW 650#
So 12850# GCVWR limit 14000#
7050# GVWR limit it 7200#

Obviously set up 2 is better, however love to hear people weigh in. How much difference would be noticeable while towing? Even though setup 1 is below limits, is it safe? Thanks again!

Ultimately, the person responsible for weights / ratings / safety is the person in the drivers seat. Is it safe? -- That's your call. All we can do is help you with calculations.

Both of your sets of numbers are within ratings.

With the first set, in order to be sure you are within ratings, you would need a scale to weigh everything and everybody, as it / they get loaded. You would also need a tongue weight scale, to weigh the trailer tongue and move things around to ensure that you don't get up to the average 12% tongue weight.

What about holding tanks? --- Did you consider their weight? -- From time to time, you could run into a situation where you have no choice but to tow with something in your holding tanks. That could be just fresh water, or, it could be a full load in grey, black, and fresh tanks. Depending on where they are located in relation to the axles, holding tanks can have a huge impact on trailer weights.

On my trailer, a full tank load, adds 900 lbs to the trailer gross weight, and approximately 100 of those pounds, go to the tongue weight. Due to location, my fresh tank alone, will add or subtract almost 200 lbs of tongue weight. That's a lot of fluctuation for somebody who may be on the edge.

Second set of numbers --- You might stay within ratings even with full tanks.

Is going a little over payload / GVWR going to make everything fall apart? ---Doubtfull, but, it will accelerate wear and tear. Many of us can tell you from experience, towing at, or over weight ratings makes the rig a little more difficult to control. Is that dangerous? -- Here again, that's up to the driver.

I would estimate the loads this way:

Set up 1:
Loaded TT 6750# with TW = 6750*0.13 = 878#
(assumes loaded TW is 13% of loaded TT weight)
Loaded TV(6400#) plus WDH(100#) plus TW(878#) minus 878*0.25 = 7158#
(assumes load equal to 25% of TW is shifted from TV to TT axles via WDH)
So GCW = TV(6400)+WDH(100)+TT(6750) = 13250 vs GCWR = 14000# (94.6%)
TVGVW = 7158 vs GVWR = 7200# (99.4%)

Set up 2:
Loaded TT 5800# with TW 5800*0.13 = 754#
Loaded TV(6400#) plus WDH(100#) plus TW(754#) minus 754*0.25 = 7066#
So GCW = TV(6400)+WDH(100)+TT(5800) = 12300 vs GCWR = 14000# (87.6%)
TVGVW = 7066# vs GVWR = 7200# (98.1%)

Obviously set up 2 is better, however love to hear people weigh in. How much difference would be noticeable while towing? Even though setup 1 is below limits, is it safe? Thanks again!

IMO, there is not enough TVGVW difference or GCW difference to say that one is better than the other on the basis of "safety".

However Setup 2 gives a TT to TW weight ratio of 5800/6400 = 0.906 versus the Setup 2 ratio of 6750/6400 = 1.05.
On this basis, the lighter TT might be considered safer.

Another factor to consider is how much unused cargo carrying capacity each TT has.
If the CCCs were similar, I would opt for the trailer which was better constructed and better suited my needs.

Ron

Great info guys, much appreciated! So let me assume I know the actual weights of both TT and TV. Like to hear opinions on both setups, again, let's just assume the numbers are actual.

Set up 1:
Loaded TT 6750# with TW 740#
Loaded TV 6400# plus the TW 740#
So 13890 GCVWR limit is 14000#
7140# GVWR limit is 7200#

Set up 2:
Loaded TT 5800# with TW 650#
Loaded TV 6400# plus the TW 650#
So 12850# GCVWR limit 14000#
7050# GVWR limit it 7200#

Obviously set up 2 is better, however love to hear people weigh in. How much difference would be noticeable while towing? Even though setup 1 is below limits, is it safe? Thanks again!

I mis-read the first posts weight numbers... I thought the dry weight was #7500. Since that's the GVWR, you should be okay if you pack light...

Now, the reason that does not work for me is that i don't pack light... I pack as much stuff as a rig can hold! I also like to load up the bed of the truck with stuff that I "might need".. ;)

So, that's just me and the way I "camp".. Other's don't carry anything and that's fine too.

If getting the max size trailer is more important then being able to load it to the gills and not worry about it, that's fine..

I just know if I had a nice big trailer with lots of storage space and then I told my wife she can't pack anything in it, because it'll be too heavy, I'd get an ear full of something! :) Beside, like I said, I'd be packing so much stuff in it myself, that it just won't work for me to go 'light'.. :)

Good luck!

Mitch

The reason we advise to disregard the dry weight is due to the fact that first, it will only be dry when going from the dealership to your home and secondly, many dry weights do not take into consideration many of the mfg and/or dealership's options/accessories. These can include many of the things that you would think would be taken into consideration when they come up with the dry weight....but do not. Batteries, propane (and tanks), awnings, televisions, and yes sometimes even microwaves, refrigerators, furnace, ACs, larger beds, etc. The "actual" dry way may be hundreds of pound more than what they advertise.

Another factor to think about is that many people will estimate the weight of things they will put into a truck/trailer.....and be way under the actual weight. That is why we recommend getting the vehicles weighed on a scale. Let's face it....estimating is just guessing.

Many of us here on rv.net like to recommend the 80% rule...that is, to never exceed 80% ANY of the vehicles ratings. This provides a very good safety margin for both you and the vehicles.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Ron

adamrwinters wrote:
---My back up TT I was looking at has a DRY WT of 4700 but a GVWR of 7400. Now if I am to ignore the dry weight and use the GVWR I am in the same situation as before. But there is no way I will be loading 2700# in that TT! This is why I don't understand ignore dry weight comment. I figure with the TT loaded I am looking at 5400-5600# loaded. I just don't see how you can ignore dry wt. completely. Most TT I've looked at vary in payload capacity's from 800's to 2,500's! But my realistic cargo wt. will be in the 600-800 range max. Am I wrong to consider dry wt. as a starting point for an estimate of actual weight??

IMO, you are wise to question the advice of those who tell you to assume you will load the TT to its GVWR -- most people do not.
IMO, you also are wise to consider "dry weight" as a starting point.

The "dry weight" published in a brochure or on a manufacturer's website might be a couple hundred pounds lighter than the factory-delivered "dry weight".
You might be able to find the more accurate dry weight on a sticker of an available TT, or you might be able to find a photo of a weight sticker on a dealer's website if you Google the model information for the TT you are considering.

I recommend you use a realistic estimate of dry weight and then add your realistic estimate of TT cargo to calculate the estimated loaded TT weight.
Then use a realistic estimate of 13% to calculate the estimated loaded tongue weight.

Add the estimated weight of a WDH to the TV's cargo load, and assume the WDH will transfer a load, equal to approximately 25% of the TW, from the TV to the TT's axles.

Ron

Oh and I did want to mention that I do understand that my TV GVWR will be my limiting factor. I know the TV weighs 6400 with family loaded, full gas and cargo loaded in back (which some could be transferred to TT to offset weight from TV). So I have 800# payload left for hitch setup and tongue wt. My back up TT has a listed TW of 545, so I am estimating after TT is loaded a max of 685# TW leaving only 115# for hitch setup wt. That would be maxed which I am not wild about, so I would probably offset some cargo to TT to lower that.

Thanks for all the responses! This is what I expected but glad to hear from people with experience. I figured this set up was pushing the limits. But being new I do have some more concerns that maybe someone can clear up for me. You all mention to ignore dry weight of the TT and use the TT GVWR for calculations. The TT and TV setup I questioned above DRY WT was 5800 and GVWR was 7500. Even though I used an estimate of 6500# loaded was still pushing the limit, and obviously 7500# I am def. over weight on TV GVWR. My back up TT I was looking at has a DRY WT of 4700 but a GVWR of 7400. Now if I am to ignore the dry weight and use the GVWR I am in the same situation as before. But there is no way I will be loading 2700# in that TT! This is why I don't understand ignore dry weight comment. I figure with the TT loaded I am looking at 5400-5600# loaded. I just don't see how you can ignore dry wt. completely. Most TT I've looked at vary in payload capacity's from 800's to 2,500's! But my realistic cargo wt. will be in the 600-800 range max. Am I wrong to consider dry wt. as a starting point for an estimate of actual weight??

the OP also needs to provide the truck's payload capacity from the driver's door sticker.
OP, that's where your truck is going to let you down, no matter what it's towing capacity is. PAYLOAD is always left out by many newbies, when it should be the first number to start with, then towing capacity.