Trailer Brakes - How hot is TOO hot?

[Champ198]

Hi everyone,

I have a new rig (see sig). It weighs 12,130 lbs unloaded and we may have 400lbs loaded in it so we're not close to overloaded. I've been worried because I have the gain set to 10 (max) on heavy electric (RAM has 4 settings: light electric, heavy electric, light hydraulic over electric and heavy hydraulic over electric) and have the transmission braking and exhaust brake working.

The trailer seems to push the truck when stopping (like when someone pulls out in front of you or the light changes on you and you have to stop rapidly) I got to the campground last night and I can hear the electric brakes engaging as I press the truck brake so I know they're working.

Of concern was that the trailer brakes were super hot as I could feel the heat radiating from the wheels. Never had a trailer that had that much heat coming out from the wheels. I did not check temp. They are extremely hot every trip.

I have the Lippert 7k lb axles with drum brakes on this trailer. Are the brakes simply too weak to stop the load?

Looking for feedback. Thanks!

[Searching_Ut]

Your trailer dry weight is pretty close to what I have, and I would expect given your axles you have pretty much the same 12X2 brakes. My experience even with steep mountain driving is that the engine brake on my Ram Keeps me from using all that much braking and thus the brakes don't get very hot. That said, Hot is kind of a relative term so if you get an IR gun and get actual temps folks might be able to help out more, but personally I would get professional help in checking things out if I wasn't sure being as how properly functioning brakes are such importance safety wise.

As others have mentioned, you have t break in your brakes before they work effectively.

Finally, as BossHog mentioned, your Ram truck brake controller is seriously flawed in that it doesn't apply full braking power to your trailer. My brakes draw approximately 12.3 amps when hooked straight to battery voltage, and max out at approximately 7 amps from my IBC when not moving. I've only checked the Pulse width, or duty cycle when driving rather than measuring current so I can't confirm current, but voltage pulse width maxes out at 67 percent on my truck, even when traveling well over 30 mph, so I question whether the truck ever will apply full braking. So far, Chryslers refusal to admit to, or deal with the issue in any way has convinced me that there will never be another Chrysler product in my future.

[boshog]

Champ198 wrote:
The trailer seems to push the truck when stopping (like when someone pulls out in front of you or the light changes on you and you have to stop rapidly) I got to the campground last night and I can hear the electric brakes engaging as I press the truck brake so I know they're working.

Looking for feedback. Thanks!

If your RAM is a model year 2015 or 2016 and you notice a considerable loss of trailer braking beginning when your travel speeds falls under 30 MPH, you have discovered the factory brake controller defect.

For an unknown reason, RAM designed the brake controller to reduce braking output to 70% once the travel speed falls below 30 MPH. RAM has yet to respond to the issue nor have they released the reasoning why they did this. If you look in the owners' manual where they describe how to adjust brake gain you will discover it is impossible because of the 30% loss in brake output.

There are several discussions about this issue, here, on most RAM forums, and the Cummins forum.

Most of us have moved over to an aftermarket brake controller, I use the Prodigy with their 3024-P cable which they designed to fit into the factory plug (marketing brilliance).

There are many folks who claim success with the 2015/16 RAM brake controller but everyone's situation is different. You may have 12x2 brakes on a 9K trailer or 12x2 brakes on a 14k trailer. Obviously the the 14K trailer will need more voltage to get the same braking effort as the 9K, this is why not all see the issue. Also, this issue first appeared on 2015 production and continued into with 2016 production.

[Skidus1]

I measure mine just after pulling into the house to get info on how they are working. I have seen 133 deg just after parking during stop and go traffic, if all are within 10 deg of that I am ok with that. Get an infrared gun. I had one 15 deg higher than all the others last year and had blown a seal, saved me from an expensive repair. Depends on ambient temp of course, in 90 deg weather I see around 113-121 after 50 miles towing on the freeway. I always check at the same place.

[Lynnmor]

tragusa3 wrote:
Mine are just...okay, even with the controller set to max. I am speculating that the trucks computer is using the anti-lock system to regulate the trailers braking (the manual says it does). Maybe this is why they never feel as strong as my older/dumber controller?

Anti-lock does absolutely nothing till one or more of the trucks wheels begins to slide.

If you have an issue with a trailer brake, pull the drums and inspect.

[tragusa3]

Mine are just...okay, even with the controller set to max. I am speculating that the trucks computer is using the anti-lock system to regulate the trailers braking (the manual says it does). Maybe this is why they never feel as strong as my older/dumber controller?

[S_Davis]

I would start with getting an infrared temp gun, this way you can check all your axle hubs and brakes as well as tire temps. It is a great tool for diagnosing a issue, I had a wheel bearing starting to go out and caught it before being stranded on the side of the highway somewhere.

That one wheel was about 20 degrees hotter than the rest. When on a trip I check everything at least once a day, only takes a couple minutes to chech everything. I know what temps everything usually runs so I can tell if something is going on.

[Grit_dog]

Quick test to isolate the problem if there is one.
With cold brakes, take a run with no trailer brakes plugged in, make a few hard stops, whatever, see if the trailer brakes are warm or hot. If they're still cold, they're not dragging.
Now plug in brakes, set low gain, repeat. If they get hot, then likely the controller is sending more juice than it should.
There are many reports of the Ram ibc not having the power for bigger systems, which you also appear to experience if the trailer is pushing the truck.
So you have conflicting issues, but the above may be a start to isolating the problem.

[Lynnmor]

There is a problem with that burnishing process. New brakes have very little stopping power, so brake controllers are turned up to compensate. That might get braking near normal, but the magnet will be at maximum power tearing into the armature surface before it has mated to the magnet. That gouging will continue so magnet and brake drum life will be shorter. The resulting grooved surface will not allow the magnet to swing properly and further compromise braking. I now actually turn down the controller for awhile after replacing or reconditioning parts. I know, not a great idea, but this junk isn't ready for prime time.

[Old-Biscuit]

NEW drum brakes have to be 'broke in'

Brakes need to be manually adjusted and then one needs to do several hard stopping procedures to burnish brake shoes

Trailer brakes Info
Pg. 11 ----burnish procedure for new brakes
Pg. 12 ----synchronizing brakes/controller
pg. 13 ----adjusting brakes
Good info...........LINK



Troubleshooting Brakes

[coolbreeze01]

Even with a new unit, pack bearings by hand and inspect/adjust brakes.

[BenK]

Do a search on brake pad MAXIMUM temperature or working temperature....that is
the temperature before it transitions to 'fade'...really getting so hot the
friction material out-gasses (smokes) to float the material off the cast iron

Below are the working temperatures for the friction material itself and the
cast iron temps will be a 'bit' less...but not much less and dependent on how
well they reject the heat

OEM/stock/mud-hen friction material's maximum WORKING temperature is around 280*C (536*F)

HD friction material's maximum WORKING temperature is around 400*C (752*F)

Performance friction material's maximum WORKING temperature is around 500*C (932*F)

For reference...to fry a T-Bone to medium-rare, the internal temp should be 125*F

Also note that there is a minimum working temperature...below that and
the braking will NOT be very good

So any of the above maximum working temperature will fry your fingers or even
have flesh stick to the cast iron brake material...


Careful of internet forum info...not all are accurate...suspect mine too and
do your own research. I've had mine actually bellow visible smoke...my 2 seater
on a track day, my Silverado and even my Suburban...

Here is a picture of a test run and note that the rotor is glowing...



Do a search here and other internet forums/sites...RAM IBC has an issue
reported and filed with The NHSTA

Trailer brakes 'should' have the ability to skid the tires...but also
well known/documented is that the trailer OEMs 'mostly' do NOT put in
the highest rated braking systems out there...and many disagree with
me on that based on their experience...but experience with OEM trailer
brakes... :R

[RAS43]

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:
We picked up our new trailer yesterday and noticed the same thing that our built in controller we had to keep upping it to help the trailer to stop. Even at 10 it wasn't doing a good job it had the feeling of hey we aren't stopping in a hurry at all.
Our truck is a new 3500 ram as well.
Our 2012 brake controller worked nice. Not liking this new one.

Thinking of upgrading axles to disc. But we will see

I thought that I read here in a discussion that the Ram trucks have a brake controller that can be set for heavier braking. I am sure a Ram owner can provide that info, or read the manual.

[jmtandem]

Of concern was that the trailer brakes were super hot as I could feel the heat radiating from the wheels. Never had a trailer that had that much heat coming out from the wheels. I did not check temp. They are extremely hot every trip.

Get an infrared temp probe so you know the temperature numbers. Mine tend to travel at around 115-120 F. I think much over 160-170 would be too hot for me. Coming down Pikes Peak in Colorado there is a brake check station and if you are over 300 degrees you must stop and let them cool. If you can feel heat radiating from the brakes I would get them checked. Something is not right.

[Nicholsfamily05]

We picked up our new trailer yesterday and noticed the same thing that our built in controller we had to keep upping it to help the trailer to stop. Even at 10 it wasn't doing a good job it had the feeling of hey we aren't stopping in a hurry at all.
Our truck is a new 3500 ram as well.
Our 2012 brake controller worked nice. Not liking this new one.

Thinking of upgrading axles to disc. But we will see