Upgrading power system

[ctrout]

I have an old camper but I would rather just take care of it and fix/upgrade it as necessary as opposed to get rid of it and spend tens of thousands for another one. With that in mind, I'm at the point where I need to revamp the power. The converter crapped out on me halfway through the season last year and I couldn't afford or justify the repair then but things have changed and I'm ready to drop some serious cash.

Please give me your opinions on the planned system. This is a 1992 Dutchmen 26' bumper tow that I gave about $3000 for it in 2008 I think and it has been a really good camper for our family. We have used it maybe three times on "shore power" as we prefer to camp far from others if possible. I had a set of 6v deep cycle flooded batteries that I got brand new in 2009 but I wasn't really good about caring for them so they are all but worthless now. Last year I finally checked them and they were probably only half full of electrolyte so I filled them but the damage was already done.

So here is my plan. A pair of batteries made by Universal Power Group. I have a pair of 12v, AGM, 110ah UB121100s running my ham radio shack and I am happy with them so far but I've only had them about six months and haven't really given them a workout yet. I thought of getting the UB62000s but they would hold 20ah less and I can't think of any advantage in running s6v AGMs vs the 12v set. Am I missing something here?

On to the converter. The previous converter was the standard 30amp el-cheapo that came in almost every camper in the early 90s. Since this one let the magic smoke out, I figured why put the same el-cheapo back in there so I'm thinking of putting in the Progressive Dynamics (PD9245CV) 45 Amp Power Converter with Charge Wizard. I don't think I need a 45 amp converter but I have read all the rave reviews on the PD converters and I think that a 45 amp is the smallest they make.

Finally, the boon docking magic. I have a single 100w Renogy mono crystalline solar panel with PWM charge controller on my ham shack and it works great so far. I can run my 100w Kenwood at about 20% duty cycle, run a strip of about 100 LEDs, a standard 15w (?) camper bulb, a 50w Kenwood dual band radio on standby, all for about three hours at night and by the time I check the batteries the next day at noon, they are sitting at like 13.6v. The plan for the boon docking castle is to get the 300w Renogy kit that comes with the 40A MPPT charge controller so I can have my 16 day hunting trip in October and not worry about the heater running all night killing my batteries.

Does all of this sound like it will work well together or is there something else I need to consider?

[wa8yxm]

Well, I will say the Progressive Dynamics Wizard controlled converters are the best.. I have done a lot of research and yet to find one better.

My battery choice leans toward Flooded Wet Cells. a pair of GC-2's can be had for around 200 total or less (Costco or Sam's will be less) hold 220 amp hours give or take 10, and are the very battery that converter is designed for. So long as you can access them for cleaning and topping off every once in a while they should last close to 10 years,,,,, Mine lasted 9.

[ctrout]

Well, I went ahead and ordered everything and it should all be here sometime next week. I got brand new tires on the F250 today and new ball joints to come on Monday. The truck and camper are coming along nicely now for the new season and I'm stoked!

I heavenly ordered 300w in panels and my single panel on my radio station puts out 5.5 amps (measured) open circuit, at noon so the 3 panel kit should theoretically get me about 16 amps. Not bad for 2 batteries. I think I'll be ok with that.

The other thing, concerning the converter, I will pretty much never use it except when the camper is stored so I have no use for quick charging. If I have to recharge with the generator for some reason, I've never encountered generator restrictions on the BLM and national forest where I boondock except that I have to meet the requirements for the spark arrestor. One mountain I was camping on for 12 days and never even saw another soul to complain! I HATE generator noise myself so if my batteries are in bad enough condition that I need to run the generator, I'd sooner pack up and go home anyway. This is why I am investing in solar.

I can't believe that my panels won't replace what I use except for an extreme exception perhaps. We have nearly non-stop sun during the season and I usually only run a max of two lights at a time for 5 hours max each night. During hunting season I run the furnace all night but without solar and a brand new set of wet cells, I could run the furnace for 5 nights before the batteries needed a recharge.

I do plan on adding perhaps one more battery and panel somewhere in the next three months or so though. I think that 330Ah and 400 watts should do anything I want to do while camping, even calling CQ DX for three hours a night. In the past, I have spent 2-3 hours working DX on a 8.4Ah Lifepo4 battery and I expired before the battery did. I got into 13 countries in one night from the bottom of a canyon on an inverted vee with a feed point only about 14 feet off the ground.

[westend]

I'd suggest to mount the 300W on the roof and maintain the batteries. With the right controller, you will never need to turn on the converter. I wouldn't buy any other brand of converter than PD. Mine is going strong and is 45 yrs old.

[Shadow_Catcher]

The one addition I would make is a battery monitor Trimetric or Victron to keep you above the 50% SOC

[time2roll]

No real battery difference in 6v vs. 12v in AGM. Only difference is series connection is always balanced. Nothing really bad about 2x 12v in parallel either if main power is connected across both. (+ connected to first battery and - connected to the second)

9245 is fine and about max for a 1000va generator. There is a 9140. IOTA has a 30a and a 15a if you want to go smaller.

400w solar seems like a lot of solar for two batteries. Yes you will need it in the winter and I think you may also find more battery will increase your solar harvest to stay in bulk longer.

Definitely swap all lights to LED.

[RoyB]

I did the same in my 2008 OFF-ROAD POPUP camper... Did all the things to make it more green power wise and added a big battery bank... We use ours OFF-GRID alot with the concept we will run all the things we want to use including Ham Radio and have it planned out to drop our battery bank down to its 50% charge state by 8Am the next morning when we hook up our 2KW Generator to the trailer and let the converter/charger unit re-charge our batteries back up to their 90% charge state.

Most place we camp allows the generators for a few hours in the morning and early Evening (Never after 8PM)...

I went with the PD9260C Converter/charger unit as I want to be able to re-charge 3-4 batteries in a quick three hour time frame using my 2KW Generator connected to the trailer. Battery science tells us to recharge a wet cell battery in a three hour time frame you will need to have 14.4VDC with the capacity of 17-20AMPS DC current for each battery in the bank. Doing three batteries i can do this just fine in a three hour generator run time period. Four batteries take alittle bit longer but doable within the generator run time restrictions I keep running into... I might cheat alittle some sometimes and shut down when I get caught haha My 2KW Honda is pretty quiet anyways.

Your lower wattage unit will charge just fine but will take longer to do it...

Seems like where we camp we are always running into generator run time restrictions so when it is allowed I want to get it done as quick as possible...

The same rule also holds true for Solar Panels. You will want to have 17-20AMPs of DC current for each battery during the high sun period. A typical 120WATT Solar panel will only develop around 5-6 AMPS of DC current when in the high sun. This will require a longer charge period depending on how long you stay in the high sun... One of these days I am going to install enough solar panels to give me the 20AMPS I need for one battery and perhaps play the game I have high sun for 6-8 hours during the day to get them all charged up. I will most likely have to run my generator for the first hour of re-charging and then let the Solar panels take over for the rest of the high sun day. I really think of the solar panels as top off charges anyway and over time you just keep the batteries charged by by trickle charges...

If you really want to be able to keep your batteries charged you will need to have the generator for sure and let the solar panels supplement the charge. You will find some camping trips where you will not have high sun long enought to do much at all for charging. Got to have the generator for sure...

It kinda all depends on what you are wanting to do when you are camping off-grid and what you are willing to give up...

A typical early evening we will pull a good constant 20AMPS from our battery bank from 6PM to 11Pm each night with all of our toys... Not all that easy on batteries for us...

Just my thoughts here...

Roy Ken

[2012Coleman]

horton333 wrote:
They replace 921 and 924 bulbs, which are the most common.
Which looks like this.
I cannot tell from the picture for sure as it seems to have a plastic base on the bulb so it may be something else. Does the bulb some out of the plastic case, or is it soldered in?

It comes out. That's my bulb - thanks!

[horton333]

They replace 921 and 924 bulbs, which are the most common.
Which looks like this.
I cannot tell from the picture for sure as it seems to have a plastic base on the bulb so it may be something else. Does the bulb some out of the plastic case, or is it soldered in?

[2012Coleman]

horton333 wrote:
Sounds like should be fine, couple of things to think of.

LED lights if you are up at night in the fall - cheap upgrade.
These are most of the ones I used, you do not have to get ones this bright.

With 220 AHs of AGM you may want to consider a larger charger, the $delta for extra amps is not much. On the other hand if you plan on solar power only, as may be the case, then 45 AMPs should do.

An example of prices.

Note even with AGMs it will be hard to use that extra charging current unless you have a very low resistance to the batteries (something the stock setup likely does not have). This suggestion totally depends on your intended use.

Do the LED's you suggested replace this type of bulb?

[corvettekent]

ctrout wrote:
I realize that the flooded cell 6v batteries are the best choice for longevity but since I know myself and know how I treated my last set of flooded 6v batteries, I think that AGMs might be better for my lazy personality. I have seen reports of plenty of folks why get 10+ years from AGMs while flooded cells, which should theoretically last longer, typically don't because too many people let them dry out. I'm one of those people.

It's your money but for the price of two AGM's you can buy four 6 volt batteries. You can also buy a water kit to help keep the batteries full.

[ctrout]

Thanks for the input. It's good to know that I am on the right track and that all of the research I did on this system was accurate.

We lived with the 30A charger for several years without any issues so I'm sure the 45A will serve us well, especially since, as you mentioned, we will be pretty much all solar from this point on. The only times we ever connected to 30A service before was in the summer, when it regularly tops triple digits here, we would run the AC with a 4k generator only while we cleaned up and packed up to leave. The other time is when we got home and parked it to charge the batteries. Now I won't even have to plug it in to charge.

[horton333]

Sounds like should be fine, couple of things to think of.

LED lights if you are up at night in the fall - cheap upgrade.
These are most of the ones I used, you do not have to get ones this bright.

With 220 AHs of AGM you may want to consider a larger charger, the $delta for extra amps is not much. On the other hand if you plan on solar power only, as may be the case, then 45 AMPs should do.

An example of prices.

Note even with AGMs it will be hard to use that extra charging current unless you have a very low resistance to the batteries (something the stock setup likely does not have). This suggestion totally depends on your intended use.

[ctrout]

I realize that the flooded cell 6v batteries are the best choice for longevity but since I know myself and know how I treated my last set of flooded 6v batteries, I think that AGMs might be better for my lazy personality. I have seen reports of plenty of folks why get 10+ years from AGMs while flooded cells, which should theoretically last longer, typically don't because too many people let them dry out. I'm one of those people.

What do you know about any advantages of 6v AGM over 12v AGM though? Is there any?

[corvettekent]

300 watts of solar should work great for you but I would go with four 6 volt wet cells instead of the AGM's.