Virginia CCW Heads Up

[WDP]

Not starting a debate but a change in reciprocity agreements will effect some RVers.
Legal review conducted in 2015 pursuant to 18.2-308.014 of the Code of Virginia identified several jurisdictions that currently fail to meet the statutory requirements for recognition of the concealed carry permits they issue. As a result of that review, effective February 1, 2016, concealed carry permits issued by the following jurisdictions are NO LONGER VALID in Virginia:
Alaska,Arizona,Arkansas,Delaware,Florida,Idaho,Indiana,Kansas,Kentucky Louisiana,Minnesota,Mississippi,Montana,Nebraska,New Mexico,North Carolina,North Dakota,Ohio,Pennsylvania,South Carolina,South Dakota,Tennessee,Washington,Wisconsin,Wyoming.

Contact info to express your thoughts:Virginia Attorney General
and the Virginia Governor, VA Governor
Let them know how much this hurts tourism in Virginia.

WDP

[Wadcutter]

ramgunner wrote:
I'll let you in on a secret. In my experience as an instructor and having dealt with both LE and CFP holders, I can say that the majority of CFP holders are better shots than the majority of LE. There are exceptions, but this holds true for the majority.

WOW! You must shoot a lot all over the country. There are over 800,000 LEOs in the US and you know for a fact that CCW holders are better shots than over 400,000 LEOs. You are a fountain of knowledge and experience. At least you think so. Full of something anyway, knowledge and experience may not be it tho.
Having trained thousands of LE shooters and non-LE shooters for over 45 years my experience is totally different than your 'secret'. But if your 'secret' makes you feel good and somehow superior then have at it. What I have found is CCW instructors who claim they're better shots than "the majority of LEOs" are not even close to what they think but they like to blow a bunch of smoke. Just don't pass your 'secret' off as fact. It's not. What is a fact is most CCW holder rarely shoot or practice.
If I was looking for a firearms instructor I'd find someone more full of knowledge and less full of himself.

[ramgunner]

spoon059 wrote:
If you want to carry, you should be practicing those skills on a more regular basis anyways.

I'll let you in on a secret. In my experience as an instructor and having dealt with both LE and CFP holders, I can say that the majority of CFP holders are better shots than the majority of LE. There are exceptions, but this holds true for the majority.

When I first qualified on a LE combat shooting course years ago, I scored 95.2% with a Glock 21 (.45 ACP). The majority of other students in the class scored in the 70's and low 80's with mostly 9mm's - and that's common. My next score was 96% with the same firearm. The only one that came close to me was a woman that was going to work in a department in northern Utah.

[ramgunner]

beemerphile1 wrote:

ramgunner wrote:
...I don't generally travel where my permit is not honored. It means that some trips might take a little longer as I avoid those states where it is not valid, but I spend money in places that allow me to defend my family if required. Freedom is worth it.

I agree and also vote with my $$. If they don't want me, they don't get my $$.

When our daughter is older, we will be taking some trips to various sites important to the history of the founding of this nation. Part of the lesson there will be pointing out how the people in many of those places today are not as free as they once fought to be.

[BCSnob]

Whiskey River wrote:
Nice post ramgunner.
Look at the crime rates of some of the cities in states not listed as reciprocity / recognition for conceal carry.
New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachusetts, California
It is next to impossible to get a carry license in those states unless you are former law enforcement. But who has the guns??? All hoodlums and gang members.

It makes for good sound bites, "crime rates are correlated with gun laws", for either side of the argument; but I'll bet if you carefully look at the data you'll find no correlation between presence/absence of strict gun laws and crime rates. I'll also bet that there is a better correlation between crime rates and population density than with absence/presence of strict gun laws. Finally, correlation does not imply or prove causation.

[spoon059]

W4RLR wrote:
I have a Tennessee Handgun Permit. In order to get that permit I had to:

Attend an eight hour long classroom session which dealt with issues on where it was legal to carry and where it was not legal to carry. Also where the handgun permit was valid and where it was not.

Go to a range and fire fifty rounds at a target from various distances.

Go to the local law enforcement agency to be fingerprinted.

Send the completed paperwork to Nashville for a criminal records check, along with a rather sizable non-refundable fee.

So I had to do all of that just to exercise a constitutional right. If I want to purchase another firearm, I have to go through TWO background checks, one from the FBI and one from the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. If Virginia said that Tennessee was not strict enough in its granting of concealed carry permits, how much more thorough could they be?

I might add the average thug on the streets with a weapon does not have to do any of the preceding steps to carry a firearm. He or she just gets a firearm from where criminals get their firearms, no muss, no fuss, and no paperwork.

But remember, the same legislators that drafted those rules are opposed to having a identification requirement to vote, because it creates too big of a burden on a constitutional right...

For the record, I am not opposed to reasonable restrictions and requirements for purchasing a weapon. Felons and those with mental health problems should NOT be allowed to carry a weapon in my opinion.

I am also not opposed to reasonable restrictions and requirements for concealed carry either. If you are legally allowed to own a firearm, I think you should be allowed to carry that weapon if you chose to do so. I think that people that want to carry should have yearly training requirements to discuss legal concerns, gun retention skills and marksmanship. If you want to carry, you should be practicing those skills on a more regular basis anyways.

[W4RLR]

I have a Tennessee Handgun Permit. In order to get that permit I had to:

Attend an eight hour long classroom session which dealt with issues on where it was legal to carry and where it was not legal to carry. Also where the handgun permit was valid and where it was not.

Go to a range and fire fifty rounds at a target from various distances.

Go to the local law enforcement agency to be fingerprinted.

Send the completed paperwork to Nashville for a criminal records check, along with a rather sizable non-refundable fee.

So I had to do all of that just to exercise a constitutional right. If I want to purchase another firearm, I have to go through TWO background checks, one from the FBI and one from the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. If Virginia said that Tennessee was not strict enough in its granting of concealed carry permits, how much more thorough could they be?

I might add the average thug on the streets with a weapon does not have to do any of the preceding steps to carry a firearm. He or she just gets a firearm from where criminals get their firearms, no muss, no fuss, and no paperwork.

[hotpepperkid]

If the state you are camping has a castle doctrine your ok as long as your in your camp site. There are about 10 that don't have. When traveling from camp site to camp site different rules apply in different states. For example in CA they must be locked in a separate container unloaded and the ammo in a different location. Locked in the clove compartment or drunk is not a separate containter. Every state has its stupid rules which make no sense to most of us. Like in CA there is a 10 day waiting period, cooling off time. That makes no sense if you already own a firearm you didn't to buy one in the first place if you were mad at someone and wanted to off them

[beemerphile1]

ramgunner wrote:
...I don't generally travel where my permit is not honored. It means that some trips might take a little longer as I avoid those states where it is not valid, but I spend money in places that allow me to defend my family if required. Freedom is worth it.

I agree and also vote with my $$. If they don't want me, they don't get my $$.

[Wadcutter]

Whiskey River wrote:
Nice post ramgunner.
Look at the crime rates of some of the cities in states not listed as reciprocity / recognition for conceal carry.
New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachusetts, California
It is next to impossible to get a carry license in those states unless you are former law enforcement. But who has the guns??? All hoodlums and gang members.

Knowledge is a wonderful thing to educate the ill-informed.
Actually, for IL, it is not "next to impossible" to get a CCW. It's actually rather easy. IL is a shall issue state. What that means as long as you are not prohibited from possessing a firearm and you take a 16 hour course then you will be issued a CCW.
What IL law allows that many other states do not is as long as you have a valid CCW from your home state then you can legally have a loaded firearm in your vehicle.
All this even applies in Chicago - which some people think is all of IL.

[WTP-GC]

rockhillmanor wrote:
When I became a full timer I went to apply for one and after talking to the instructor and being informed of all the different laws each state had about carrying and/or just having guns in the MH I opted for not doing it. How could one possibliy be up to date about the regulations for each and every state they traveled thru? Just saying. I didn't want to have to sit on the computer researching the next state I was about to enter to see if I would be legal on that day. The OP's post shows just that.

In the amount of time it took you to write that post, you could have learned all you need to know within the first few results on a Google search.

As a further note, LEO's are generally in favor of CCW and open carry. However, the actual Sheriff/Chief of Police (or the like) are kinda split. Why, you may wonder? Remember that the top dog LEO, such as the sheriff, is usually an elected position. So in other words, sometimes they're no different than the policiticians.

[monkey44]

QUOTE from Whisky River::: Note to governor (and all LEOs and legislators): dangerous people do not abide by any gun laws of any state.....

The single most important statement anyone can make about gun control. Once the legislators "get it" they can introduce productive legislature, otherwise, they're simply circling the drain.

[Whiskey_River]

Nice post ramgunner.
Look at the crime rates of some of the cities in states not listed as reciprocity / recognition for conceal carry.
New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachusetts, California
It is next to impossible to get a carry license in those states unless you are former law enforcement. But who has the guns??? All hoodlums and gang members.

[rockhillmanor]

Thank you for that explanation and link.

[ramgunner]

Rockhillmanor brings up an interesting point. As a full-timer and a firearms instructor (NRA and Utah BCI) I deal with this on a daily basis. It's not as hard as it seems, even though it could easily appear overwhelming.

The app I recommend is called Legal Heat. It has good information on the firearms laws of all 50 states, and reciprocity/recognition maps for the permits from each. Reciprocity and recognition are two major benefits of a good Concealed Firearm Permit for full-timers.

Reciprocity is a formalized agreement between two states indicating that the permit for one is valid in the other. Recognition does not have a formalized agreement, but is still valid in the eyes of the law.

For the Utah permit, for example, Utah has Reciprocity with:
Alabama
Alaska
Colorado
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Mississippi
New Hampshire
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Pennsylvania
South Dakota
Texas
Virginia
Washington State
West Virginia

And recognition with:
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Idaho
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Maine
Michigan
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Vermont
Wisconsin
Wyoming

That's a good portion of the USA. A few have a caveat that it must be a Utah permit held by a Utah resident, but that's OK. It still allows me to travel across the USA being legally covered.

What scares most people is that when you are in the other jurisdiction, you are subject to their firearms laws. The Legal Heat app gives you an overview of prohibited places under each permit - that's the biggest thing. Each state may have different restrictions on where you can take your concealed firearm.

As long as your permit is valid, you should generally not have any issue just driving down the road.

One advantage in Utah is that - in Utah - it is a Concealed FIREARM Permit. In Utah, as long as you can conceal it, you can carry it. I can carry a PS90 under my coat if I want. I can also openly carry it too, although open carry isn't something I generally recommend. Outside of Utah, permits often only cover handguns.

I also hold a Nevada permit. This allows to me to carry in Nevada and New Mexico, but no other benefit. When I got mine, they made you take a shooting test with whatever you want to carry. Now, the shooting test only requires you to shoot one firearm to carry any handgun.

I don't generally travel where my permit is not honored. It means that some trips might take a little longer as I avoid those states where it is not valid, but I spend money in places that allow me to defend my family if required. Freedom is worth it.