What does 10 TRILLION gallons of water even equate to?

westend wrote:
The items in your list of products that are not safe were all discovered by a "scientist" to be unsafe, rather than invented by "science". We now have Govt. agencies with scientists that protect our well being, the FDA and EPA.

And those same items were created by a scientist who thought they "knew" the science. And I very much disagree with your statement that government agencies are/will be there to "protect" us in many cases. That statement seems to help my arguement. The .gov said the medication that killed my grandmother was safe! That "protection" didn't work out so well for her. History is chock-full of examples where the government said something was safe only to later find that, well, maybe not so much. The .gov has become so bloated, bureaucratic, ineffective, and corrupted by outside influences (lobbyists) on ALL sides that they couldn't "protect" their way out of a paper bag.

How these facts can be used in the products we use or to bad intentions by corrupt industries that know better is where the "wrong" enters the picture.

EGGGSSACTLY.
That is exactly what I am and have been saying.

What matters regarding the pure science is who the end user is. And that end user is human. Humans that are subject to all the outside influences I previously mentioned. What matters is how the science is used/manipulated. I don't have much faith anymore that it is being used "purely." Edit: or that the "discovery" is even "pure." Far to much corruption and far too many agendas at play on all levels, usually in the search for money or control.


From the last paragraph in your post, it appears that you accept some truth in the discoveries of climate science but are unwilling to believe that bad outcomes are a possibility. Or, that you are uncertain what any future holds with regard to climate change.
With the amount of risk involved, wouldn't you want to know?

I am not unwilling to believe, or not believe, anything relating to this. But I am not willing to "jump off a cliff" just yet to end my own CO2 output, or pay some ridiculous "carbon tax" or any other such nonsense in an effort to prevent the doom and gloom, based on the corruption that has permeated all segments and sides of our society over the last 20+ years, or based on so-called "experts," that all too often are hardly experts at all. And great strides have been made over the decades in this country regarding pollution/garbage control. Those are obviously good things. And they will continue to be made without such immediate and drastic measures as some propose.

In other words, I look at everything with skepticism, especially when someone is trying to sell me something. And certainly when such dire consequences are mentioned unless we act drastically "right now." How does that saying go? "Things are never as bad, or as good, as they seem."

And I certainly hold skepticism when individuals still live the lifetyle that is supposedly leading to the very same drastic consequences that they are preaching to others about. gore and his private jet and 5000 sq ft home anyone?

I read through pnichols list on page 20 of steps taken to help. It mostly seemed very boilerplate/standard stuff that most everyone, my own family included, do these days. I didn't read anything that made me think "wow, he is really concerned and taking serious steps." If anything, it led to further resolve on my stance regarding the hypocrisy. A Pool? An E-450 RV? Air Conditioning? Adding (building) a new house to the environment instead of purchasing an already existing house? A 500 foot driveway that leads one to the conclusion that it is a large property (how do those fit in with overpopulation)? And I am guessing that the RV is stored in a barn or such on said property. Home entertainment system (likely shipped from china) instead of using the speakers already present in the TV? He painted a picture of a lifestyle that doesn't seem all that concerned about the dire consequences requiring such drastic measures as population control at some point.

Uncertain what the future holds? Of course. But to me, it seems most everyone else is uncertain as well. But being the arrogant little creatures we are, we think "we know it." History is full of situations where we thought "we knew it" right up until the point it became apparent that we didn't. We "knew" the earth was flat. We "knew" the earth was the center of the universe. Etc. Etc.. That was considered "pure" science back in the day. Are we the sole source of climate change? I doubt it. Are we contributing to it? Could be. Are there natural forces at work as well? There could be. Could be a combination of factors.

I spent 45 minutes typing out a response, got it exactly the way I wanted it, then a power blip wiped it all out.....:S Had to quickly retype it above from what I could remember.....

Anyway, good discussion.