When you "rent" a campsight is it really "yours"

Francesca Knowles wrote:

DarthMuffin wrote:
Minor point to consider: As a holder of a concealed pistol license I've done some research and reading on my rights and responsibilities in that regard. One thing I know is that in WA state at least, campsites are covered under the same laws as a hotel room. That is, you've got the same privacy and self defense privileges. If someone is cutting through, you may order that they leave and threaten trespass charges and call the police if needed. You can defend yourself if needed (although it's hard to imagine the campground-equivalent of someone trying to break down your door).

:S

Here's hoping that everyone that reads the above understands that it's completely insane.

In reality, that law is intended to protect responsible citizens from threat by others without the insane requirement to thoroughly analyze and categorize the level of threat before defending oneself.

I don't believe that defending the "boundary lines" of your site would qualify, except if you were under threat, then you have been considered to have retreated to your safe place and have the right to defend yourself and your family.

Separate from the "Stand your Ground" discussion is the point I think the poster was dancing around. If it is considered "your space" for defense, then probably it is acceptable for you to ask others to walk around instead of through your spot ;)

DarthMuffin wrote:
Minor point to consider: As a holder of a concealed pistol license I've done some research and reading on my rights and responsibilities in that regard. One thing I know is that in WA state at least, campsites are covered under the same laws as a hotel room. That is, you've got the same privacy and self defense privileges. If someone is cutting through, you may order that they leave and threaten trespass charges and call the police if needed. You can defend yourself if needed (although it's hard to imagine the campground-equivalent of someone trying to break down your door).

:S

Here's hoping that everyone that reads the above understands that it's completely insane.

Minor point to consider: As a holder of a concealed pistol license I've done some research and reading on my rights and responsibilities in that regard. One thing I know is that in WA state at least, campsites are covered under the same laws as a hotel room. That is, you've got the same privacy and self defense privileges. If someone is cutting through, you may order that they leave and threaten trespass charges and call the police if needed. You can defend yourself if needed (although it's hard to imagine the campground-equivalent of someone trying to break down your door).

KFS wrote:
We frequent a COE Park that runs a tight ship - we appreciate it. The Ranger/Sheriff will stop and chat if you so much as park wheels on the grass or hang towels from trees. Partiers are moved along. We love it.

So ... I invite extended family along and the first night it turns into cracker acres. We had the guy wandering around with his swim trunks around his knees, the truck full of collegiates careening around ignoring speed limits, and the DJs next door playing loud music from 6-10.

It was like a memo had gone out that the Park Parents were on vacation!

Wow. You must have some really "interesting" relatives! Ours are quick to kick up the dust, but swim trunks around the knees??? Thank goodness Uncle Matt never tried that! :R :B

mlts22 wrote:
It depends on the camp. Usually rangers may not be able to eject a group no matter how obnoxious they. This is because the offending camp can always say that none of them are sober enough to drive, so their stuff isn't going anywhere... and after the ranger leaves, the result is the person whom they thought turned them in gets their stuff vandalized.

Thankfully in SPs here and a lot of CGs, the ranger then calls the local sheriff, who brings the paddy wagon, arrests the whole group, then has the local tow company with the super-sized truck come in to finish the job.

Have seen this same thing done in a Florida SP.

Unfortuneatly it happens. It's the luck of the draw. No matter what you do (go to a movie, a concert, a play, even an elementary school ricital/band performance, and yes, a campground), somewhere, sometime you're going to end up next to an "idiot". I have quite a bit of patience and try to live by the golden rule, but some folks just figure they have a "right to act how they want.

I have found over my many years that I get better results by befriending my neighbors as quickly, and as best I can. Confrontation usually escalates the problem. If you pull up, say Howdy and offer a drink/cookies, or a hand with something they seem not to want to disturb "The old couple next door". Not always, but usually.

As Washington residents we have used the State Parks quite a few times. In fact we head out for one two weeks from tomorrow, and have had very few problems.

I too would be curious toknow the park the OP was first refering to.

path1 wrote:
Many threads about people getting a camp site and other people not letting you enjoy what you paid for. Either smoke you out, Smoke you out. if fires are allowed and they have one than it is legal and fine. I know you wish they could make a good one without tons of smoke, but hey, get a new cg without fire pits allowed and you will be fine. what else can one say, but if fires are allowed, then they are allowed.dropping the "F" word every other sentence and you have grandkids along,if very near and constant, take action. walk up and explain you have young kids and that language is not cool. I am sure they will try a bit to help you out. people letting fluffy do his business and walk away,if you see fluffy pooping and they are walking away, a guick, hey you pick that up before ya leave is all that is needed. music as loud as it go etc...loud music. ask to be turned down a bit or get ranger.
When you rent a camp site what are rally getting and what can you do? And After you inform management of a problem and they do nothing, do you have any recourse except to move on? move on is best and then write to management all about WHY you left. rangers not enforcing rules etc. and they were no help when you reported a problem. what else can one do?Met a camp host at Natl Forest campground last month that informs jerks to knock it off and shows them rules one more time, then if these certain campers don't follow rules he calls the cops. Cops hate showing up, so the cops tell people to leave. What has been are your experiences? We have a beautiful state park close by but it has turned into a "party park". State Park rangers drive by during the day and could care less and don't even bother at night. Thinking about notifying upper management to see if they care. Any other ideas that might be helpful?

I have been rving for over 15 years at least and I have encountered a handful of problems. I can't believe the amt. of complaints when camping I see listed ont his forum. It is wild :)

Nail on the head!
If only more people had simple common sense these days! :B

relaxin wrote:
when simple commonsense would keep everyone's trip enjoyable

paulcardoza wrote:
LOL! My point was that "excessive" (as you put it), is highly subjective. It can be obvious in extreme cases, but on the other extreme, someone might complain if I sneeze too loudly!

If a group of us are sitting outside on a Sunday afternoon, cheering our favorite baseball team or NASCAR driver on TV, does that constitute excessive? To some it would and others it would not. That was my point.

relaxin wrote:

paulcardoza wrote:
I wonder if those neighbors who are having a good time, would say the same thing about your complaining? :R

path1 wrote:
Many threads about people getting a camp site and other people not letting you enjoy what you paid for.

There is having a good time,, and there is being an a$$hole, I can have a good time without causing discomfort for my neighbours, maybe there needs to be a "an obnoxious idiot redneck section" in some parks so the rest of us that come to enjoy a wilderness area can do so without having to listen to "Slim chance and the crying cowboys" cranked to the max and everyone on the site screaming "yee haw" every 30 seconds as they trip over the beer bottles laying all over the ground.


WHY is is so acceptable to some that people can go to a place that clearly states even on signs "no excessive noise at any time", and clearly states many other rules there to promote "everyone's" peacefull enjoyment of the facilities, the safety and well being of the natural suroundings and wildlife, its so acceptable they violate the rules, under the bs excuse "they are only enjoying themselves", do they have more of a right to enjoy themselves than the rest of the park? what gives them the right to ruin everyone elses enjoyment of what they also paid for.
if people want to party and act like idiots go somewhere where its accepted by the facility to do so, if a place has rules and you don't like them then go somewhere where there are rules that you like, that's what I do. any person with more than a grade 9 education should be able to understand that.
I never expect perfection, and most of my trips are pretty good, but there's always one or 2 days where someone comes into a park and forgot to pack their intelligence, or just don't think the rules apply to them.

I have often suggested to our park system in person and on comment cards they have a waiver that the site renter signs acknowledging that he/she has read the rules and understands them so there is no excuse for breaking the rules, "DUHHHH Geez office I did not know I could not do that" and then get a warning, then do it again next weekend, if by chance they get caught,, "oh geez officer sorry I did not know"

point taken,
Yes there are people that would complain about anything, and yes I have had people complain about my kid being a kid (but not screaming at the top of his lungs), I had someone complain about my trailer being set up on the only logical spot on a site and there was gravel which indicated that was the spot to park, just because it blocked their veiw, and they could hear my water pump run, and my hot water tank run. but then they did not have to use my trailer for shade and sit right next to it(like 2 feet away right on the siteline) when they had 40 feet width of space on their site, it did not bother me them sitting in the shade of my trailer at supper time, but to move your picnic table there and sit that close and then complain about my water pump and hot water tank???? come on. yes I know there are perpetual whiners that complain when its not warranted, but there are those who outright break the rules, mostly knowingly and claim they are trying to enjoy themselves.

when you cheer your driver in the race, can you be heard on the other side of the park or just by your immediate neighbors? is it constant cheers every couple minutes for a couple hours or just a few times? I imagine you would have to gage it on the place you are staying, if it is extremely quiet and your group is the only noise and can be heard through the entire park for the whole day, well that might be construed as being a little noisey, if the park is noisy with kids and adults alike tons of activity and your group is not really recognizably noisier than any other, then you fit right in.

One would have to look at what can be annoying to others (others as the majority) and make good judgement calls, keeping in mind what comes around goes around. had an experience at a park where some kid had a whistle, a very loud whistle, and he blew it and blew it and blew it, not once or twice but at times constantly as he road his bike around the park, ok he might be having fun, and it may have been good for a laugh the first time around, but by the second day of this persistent behavior for 15 to 20 minutes at a time several times through the day the park warden finally took the whistle from the child and took him to his site and had a conversation with the parents who thought their kid was only having fun, but 20 or so other campers had called or gone to the office to complain after repeated attempts of being nice and asking it to be stopped of the parents and child were ignored. they still saw nothing wrong, could not recognize how that could disturb other people even ones with kids
In otherwords a person should with common sense be able to figure out when they are crossing the line, and look at the other person's perspective, ask themselves "if I disrespect my neighbors, how am I gonna feel when payback comes" whether in an official capacity or like when that noisy deisel gets fired up for half an hour while your trying to sleep at 6am only to make a quick trip out to the garbage bins and back, or the car alarm gets set off next to your site at 5 am cause the guy ,,,, forgot ,,, to shut it off before opening the door.
Then it can escalate,,, when simple commonsense would keep everyone's trip enjoyable

LOL! My point was that "excessive" (as you put it), is highly subjective. It can be obvious in extreme cases, but on the other extreme, someone might complain if I sneeze too loudly!

If a group of us are sitting outside on a Sunday afternoon, cheering our favorite baseball team or NASCAR driver on TV, does that constitute excessive? To some it would and others it would not. That was my point.

relaxin wrote:

paulcardoza wrote:
I wonder if those neighbors who are having a good time, would say the same thing about your complaining? :R

path1 wrote:
Many threads about people getting a camp site and other people not letting you enjoy what you paid for.

There is having a good time,, and there is being an a$$hole, I can have a good time without causing discomfort for my neighbours, maybe there needs to be a "an obnoxious idiot redneck section" in some parks so the rest of us that come to enjoy a wilderness area can do so without having to listen to "Slim chance and the crying cowboys" cranked to the max and everyone on the site screaming "yee haw" every 30 seconds as they trip over the beer bottles laying all over the ground.


WHY is is so acceptable to some that people can go to a place that clearly states even on signs "no excessive noise at any time", and clearly states many other rules there to promote "everyone's" peacefull enjoyment of the facilities, the safety and well being of the natural suroundings and wildlife, its so acceptable they violate the rules, under the bs excuse "they are only enjoying themselves", do they have more of a right to enjoy themselves than the rest of the park? what gives them the right to ruin everyone elses enjoyment of what they also paid for.
if people want to party and act like idiots go somewhere where its accepted by the facility to do so, if a place has rules and you don't like them then go somewhere where there are rules that you like, that's what I do. any person with more than a grade 9 education should be able to understand that.
I never expect perfection, and most of my trips are pretty good, but there's always one or 2 days where someone comes into a park and forgot to pack their intelligence, or just don't think the rules apply to them.

I have often suggested to our park system in person and on comment cards they have a waiver that the site renter signs acknowledging that he/she has read the rules and understands them so there is no excuse for breaking the rules, "DUHHHH Geez office I did not know I could not do that" and then get a warning, then do it again next weekend, if by chance they get caught,, "oh geez officer sorry I did not know"