Yikes! Fire !!

[TC_Z]

For 12 years we have parked our MH next to the house. The rear is up against a wooden fence. We had a 30A RV outlet installed so we could plug it in while parked. All has been fine until last weekend. Thankfully DW was in backyard, smelled smoke, looked up and it was coming from rear of MH. Runs there puts fire out and unplugs MH.

Photo of fire area, see 30A outlet and 30/50A adapter

Photo of the 50A adaptor connection

I am not an expert but it had rained earlier and appears the MH 50A plug to adapter 50A socket of the 30A adapter got water in just the right place, began arcing which caught the leaves on fire.

We had an UL outdoor outlet rain cover over the 30A connection but no cover for the 50A adapter connection. The 30A breaker in the house elec panel did not trip. The only items on in the MH were converter and small desk fan so no large current items. The adaptor was no more than 2 years old, still in good shape.

I now realize that when we are in campgrounds the electrical panel is somewhat tall so when we use the 30/50A adapter the socket is vertical hanging in the air, not laying on the ground.

On our set up at the house the socket is low so the 50A connection of the adapter was laying on the ground. Perhaps they are only intended to be used when vertically suspended.

So we will get our home set up improved. Our electrician says they now have arc sensitive breakers which trips if they sense any arcing occurring. We will also mount higher and will make a cover over the area to keep rain out.

I also want to figure out improvements for when we are in campground in future to prevent rain from getting into the 30/50A adapter connection there as well. I searched on internet and did not find anything. My ideas so far are perhaps put trash bag or large garbage can over the entire electrical post. Or maybe put a hole in the bottom of a quart left over container, slit up the side and fit over to 50A socket of the adapter so it is hanging down and protects the connection from rain.

Has this happened to anyone else? Welcome suggestions, ideas.

We are ever so thankful, I owe DW big time, be careful out there!

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

Mandalay Parr wrote:
I've wrapped plastic grocery bags around mine. Works good.

Same here - the bag handles can be tied together to secure the bag in place.

[WTP-GC]

I cannot disagree that the OP should have been using a 50A RV receptacle.

We can sit around all day and act like keyboard commandos with comments about electrical codes and how many children are going to die because one little 120V circuit (that's probably de-rated anyway due to voltage drop) is installed improperly...but what's the point!?!

A non-weather proof adapter was sitting in a pile of dry leaves and exposed to rain. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED!

The NEC is a minimalist guideline and is superseded by the state code, unless the state defers to the NEC. In all this "not installed per code" talk, not one single "expert" has yet to show how it fails to meet code. I would further venture to suggest that not one person on this forum has an RV that's wired any better than that! Nearly every house in the country will fail to meet code if the inspector looks close enough.

[2012Coleman]

rockhillmanor wrote:

westend wrote:
IMO, if the owner had

paid an electrician

to pull the wire up to a pedestal with 50 amp service, this thread and

the situation wouldn't exist

.

And I'll just say that 'paying an electrician' is NOT an end all be all guarantee for having the job done right.

I paid an 'electrician' once to put in a shore station for me while I was on the road......came back home late at night, pulled in, plugged in and BOOM...outlet wired for 220. 😞

Maybe this is why the OP had the issue in the first place - check the license and insurance status of people you hire to do work at your residence and make sure they know what your plans are - I need a 50 amp RV power pole. If they don't know what that is or ask you questions, find someone who does know.

[rockhillmanor]

westend wrote:
IMO, if the owner had

paid an electrician

to pull the wire up to a pedestal with 50 amp service, this thread and

the situation wouldn't exist

.

And I'll just say that 'paying an electrician' is NOT an end all be all guarantee for having the job done right.

I paid an 'electrician' once to put in a shore station for me while I was on the road......came back home late at night, pulled in, plugged in and BOOM...outlet wired for 220. 😞

[Dtank]

westend wrote:

stew47 wrote:

westend wrote:

stew47 wrote:

westend wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:
The real problem here is that the OP left an adapter (with 2 exposed electrical connections) on the ground, exposed to weather, in a pile of leaves. Let's not try to make more out of this than what's there.

The problem is not whether the guy lives in Estonia, USA, or Kazakhstan, the main issue is that the installation of the box and associated wiring is not right.
.

I understand what you're saying but the substandard installation of wiring didn't contribute to the fire. (Unless of course water got in the box and corroded things which caused an increase of resistance. That would have to be determined by an electrical engineer.). Also the insurance would've paid this claim. They may use subrogation to go after the electrician but unless a wealthy company probably not worth the time.

You know this thread really got legs and ran but I think the take away for all the readers is try to go by code, keep everything dry, keep everything clean, keep an eye on things, know your extinguishers, keep smoke detector batteries changed and finally when it hits the fan.... That's why we buy insurance.

I'll have to disagree. If the installation had been done in a manner compliant with code, the adaptor would not have been on the ground.

Yes, the insurance company may have paid for the damage to the cord, the damaged wire, and the singed fence boards. What would have been the insurance company's viewpoint if the fence became engulfed, burnt down the RV, the house, and caused the death or injury of anybody?

I'm sorry to beat this dead horse but most folks are out of their league when they try to move power to another location. It is best to call and pay a licensed electrician to do this. I believe that is exactly what the OP intends to do.

The adapter still could've burned due to corrosion and the wire would've burned and melted just like it was a heating element. It could've gone several feet in either direction. The insurance policy would've paid for the destruction to the limits of its policy. Of course it's best to call an electrician but sometimes people don't.

I just don't get it. The guy almost burned up his MH and his fence.

What do you want to hear? OK, since this was a bad adaptor and the owner had insurance everything is all right if he just gets another adaptor?

IMO, if the owner had paid an electrician to pull the wire up to a pedestal with 50 amp service, this thread and the situation wouldn't exist.

"..........this thread and the situation wouldn't exist."


.

Ditto the ongoing drivel..:S..:R

.

[westend]

stew47 wrote:

westend wrote:

stew47 wrote:

westend wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:
The real problem here is that the OP left an adapter (with 2 exposed electrical connections) on the ground, exposed to weather, in a pile of leaves. Let's not try to make more out of this than what's there.

The problem is not whether the guy lives in Estonia, USA, or Kazakhstan, the main issue is that the installation of the box and associated wiring is not right.
.

I understand what you're saying but the substandard installation of wiring didn't contribute to the fire. (Unless of course water got in the box and corroded things which caused an increase of resistance. That would have to be determined by an electrical engineer.). Also the insurance would've paid this claim. They may use subrogation to go after the electrician but unless a wealthy company probably not worth the time.

You know this thread really got legs and ran but I think the take away for all the readers is try to go by code, keep everything dry, keep everything clean, keep an eye on things, know your extinguishers, keep smoke detector batteries changed and finally when it hits the fan.... That's why we buy insurance.

I'll have to disagree. If the installation had been done in a manner compliant with code, the adaptor would not have been on the ground.

Yes, the insurance company may have paid for the damage to the cord, the damaged wire, and the singed fence boards. What would have been the insurance company's viewpoint if the fence became engulfed, burnt down the RV, the house, and caused the death or injury of anybody?

I'm sorry to beat this dead horse but most folks are out of their league when they try to move power to another location. It is best to call and pay a licensed electrician to do this. I believe that is exactly what the OP intends to do.

The adapter still could've burned due to corrosion and the wire would've burned and melted just like it was a heating element. It could've gone several feet in either direction. The insurance policy would've paid for the destruction to the limits of its policy. Of course it's best to call an electrician but sometimes people don't.

I just don't get it. The guy almost burned up his MH and his fence.

What do you want to hear? OK, since this was a bad adaptor and the owner had insurance everything is all right if he just gets another adaptor?

IMO, if the owner had paid an electrician to pull the wire up to a pedestal with 50 amp service, this thread and the situation wouldn't exist.

[stew47]

westend wrote:

stew47 wrote:

westend wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:
The real problem here is that the OP left an adapter (with 2 exposed electrical connections) on the ground, exposed to weather, in a pile of leaves. Let's not try to make more out of this than what's there.

The problem is not whether the guy lives in Estonia, USA, or Kazakhstan, the main issue is that the installation of the box and associated wiring is not right.
.

I understand what you're saying but the substandard installation of wiring didn't contribute to the fire. (Unless of course water got in the box and corroded things which caused an increase of resistance. That would have to be determined by an electrical engineer.). Also the insurance would've paid this claim. They may use subrogation to go after the electrician but unless a wealthy company probably not worth the time.

You know this thread really got legs and ran but I think the take away for all the readers is try to go by code, keep everything dry, keep everything clean, keep an eye on things, know your extinguishers, keep smoke detector batteries changed and finally when it hits the fan.... That's why we buy insurance.

I'll have to disagree. If the installation had been done in a manner compliant with code, the adaptor would not have been on the ground.

Yes, the insurance company may have paid for the damage to the cord, the damaged wire, and the singed fence boards. What would have been the insurance company's viewpoint if the fence became engulfed, burnt down the RV, the house, and caused the death or injury of anybody?

I'm sorry to beat this dead horse but most folks are out of their league when they try to move power to another location. It is best to call and pay a licensed electrician to do this. I believe that is exactly what the OP intends to do.

The adapter still could've burned due to corrosion and the wire would've burned and melted just like it was a heating element. It could've gone several feet in either direction. The insurance policy would've paid for the destruction to the limits of its policy. Of course it's best to call an electrician but sometimes people don't.

[westend]

stew47 wrote:

westend wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:
The real problem here is that the OP left an adapter (with 2 exposed electrical connections) on the ground, exposed to weather, in a pile of leaves. Let's not try to make more out of this than what's there.

The problem is not whether the guy lives in Estonia, USA, or Kazakhstan, the main issue is that the installation of the box and associated wiring is not right.
.

I understand what you're saying but the substandard installation of wiring didn't contribute to the fire. (Unless of course water got in the box and corroded things which caused an increase of resistance. That would have to be determined by an electrical engineer.). Also the insurance would've paid this claim. They may use subrogation to go after the electrician but unless a wealthy company probably not worth the time.

You know this thread really got legs and ran but I think the take away for all the readers is try to go by code, keep everything dry, keep everything clean, keep an eye on things, know your extinguishers, keep smoke detector batteries changed and finally when it hits the fan.... That's why we buy insurance.

I'll have to disagree. If the installation had been done in a manner compliant with code, the adaptor would not have been on the ground.

Yes, the insurance company may have paid for the damage to the cord, the damaged wire, and the singed fence boards. What would have been the insurance company's viewpoint if the fence became engulfed, burnt down the RV, the house, and caused the death or injury of anybody?

I'm sorry to beat this dead horse but most folks are out of their league when they try to move power to another location. It is best to call and pay a licensed electrician to do this. I believe that is exactly what the OP intends to do.

[stew47]

westend wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:
The real problem here is that the OP left an adapter (with 2 exposed electrical connections) on the ground, exposed to weather, in a pile of leaves. Let's not try to make more out of this than what's there.

The problem is not whether the guy lives in Estonia, USA, or Kazakhstan, the main issue is that the installation of the box and associated wiring is not right.
.

I understand what you're saying but the substandard installation of wiring didn't contribute to the fire. (Unless of course water got in the box and corroded things which caused an increase of resistance. That would have to be determined by an electrical engineer.). Also the insurance would've paid this claim. They may use subrogation to go after the electrician but unless a wealthy company probably not worth the time.

You know this thread really got legs and ran but I think the take away for all the readers is try to go by code, keep everything dry, keep everything clean, keep an eye on things, know your extinguishers, keep smoke detector batteries changed and finally when it hits the fan.... That's why we buy insurance.

[westend]

WTP-GC wrote:
Sooooo....
The wiring job looks shady, but the wire also looks gray in color, which could mean that its UHF wire and UHF is rated for direct burial/outdoor exposure. Yes, you could argue that it wasn't properly supported, but a photo of only one small section doesn't tell the whole story. The electrical box is an outdoor rated receptacle with a weatherproof cover. Its not the one I would have chosen, but I suppose it works. Perhaps it should be mounted higher, but codes vary by state so who are we to judge? As Americans, we often forget to look beyond our little world. Travel to other countries, yes even modern ones, and you're likely to see exposed hook-loop type wiring wrapped on insulators mounted under the eaves of houses.

The real problem here is that the OP left an adapter (with 2 exposed electrical connections) on the ground, exposed to weather, in a pile of leaves. Let's not try to make more out of this than what's there.

The problem is not whether the guy lives in Estonia, USA, or Kazakhstan, the main issue is that the installation of the box and associated wiring is not right.

I won't list all the deficiencies or quote NEC but just ask yourself, "What happens when a lawn mower, weed wacker, garden rake, neighborhood kid, pets, or any other random interference comes in contact with that installation?"

Yes, the exposed connections of cords led to a fire but that doesn't mean the whole installation is safe or even desirable.

[rockhillmanor]

WTP-GC wrote:
..
The real problem here is that the OP left an adapter (with 2 exposed electrical connections) on the ground, exposed to weather, in a pile of leaves. Let's not try to make more out of this than what's there.

Zactly. Two plugs connected sitting on the ground exposed to 'sitting' in water for long periods of time will cause resistance as the pix of the burned plugs clearly shows.

Get those extension plugs OFF the ground. There are a plethora of inexpensive ways to elevate the connections.

I use one of the small plastic storage containers with an attached hinged lid. I cut two slots on the top of each side for the cord to sit and connect cords and close the lid. I cut one small hole on the bottom for any water that might get in during a storm.

Here is a pix of the most simplest way to keep your extension cords safe and up OFF the ground.
Albiet i would have saved the knockouts and taped them over the opening when in use.

[WTP-GC]

Sooooo....
The wiring job looks shady, but the wire also looks gray in color, which could mean that its UHF wire and UHF is rated for direct burial/outdoor exposure. Yes, you could argue that it wasn't properly supported, but a photo of only one small section doesn't tell the whole story. The electrical box is an outdoor rated receptacle with a weatherproof cover. Its not the one I would have chosen, but I suppose it works. Perhaps it should be mounted higher, but codes vary by state so who are we to judge? As Americans, we often forget to look beyond our little world. Travel to other countries, yes even modern ones, and you're likely to see exposed hook-loop type wiring wrapped on insulators mounted under the eaves of houses.

The real problem here is that the OP left an adapter (with 2 exposed electrical connections) on the ground, exposed to weather, in a pile of leaves. Let's not try to make more out of this than what's there.

[CavemanCharlie]

jfkmk wrote:

CavemanCharlie wrote:
I agree that is the worst wiring job I have ever seen. I could do a better job then that myself and I'm a idiot.

I'm glad it all worked out OK for you !!! You were lucky your wife was home and smelled the smoke.

How many other things do you have around your house that were wired by the same person??? You may want to have them checked by the electrician you hire to fix this problem.

Sorry, but your comment, along with your user name, brings back memories of the old Geico commercial...so simple a caveman can do it! 🙂

No offense taken. That was my point. A Caveman could do a better job.

[westend]

Unsupported NM-B wire, too close to ground, and no interrupter on receptacle = no insurance settlement when MH and house burn to the ground.

The OP was lucky his wife was in the area to put the fire out but what would have happened if she became a part of that short circuit with a water hose? Worse yet, what if she was in the house napping, when the house was ablaze?

Folks need to think these electrical matters out carefully before proceeding. I really don't care if it's permitted, inspected, or not but any Fire Marshall or insurance company will. Also, if you sell or refinance your house, most home inspectors would have caught that RV receptacle as non-code. You would be removing it or replacing with the proper installation to proceed with a sale or refinance.