30 Amp RV to a 50 Amp post - Surge protectors and such

[ZZSPIRAL1]

There seems to be a difference in opinion on whether it's "safe" to use a dog bone to connect 30 amp RV up to a 50 Amp post. What's your opinion?

Additionally, I would like to order a surge protector, and I'm leaning toward one that's 30 amps. In your opinion, is it safe to connect a 30 amp surge protector to a 50 amp post using a dog bone? Note: There's not a 50 amp RV in my future.

One more question, what do you use as a surge protector (if any) when your RV is connected to a receptacle at home? I guess these receptacles are 15 or 20 amps. Truth is, I don't know if mine are 15 or 20. It probably doesn't matter anyway, on the condition the equipment (e.g. the surge protector) is rated for more than 20 amps.


I'm amazed at the considerations that go into an electrical system. Thanks in advance for your input.......

[time2roll]

With good access 30 minutes tops. The remote blinks with the different data about every second so best to have it kinda out of view. My preference anyway.

Panel to me is the breaker panel and yes most now also have an integrated converter to supply 12 volts.

[ZZSPIRAL1]

smkettner wrote:
One of the easiest ways to install is to replace the entry J-box with the EMS Surge Protector.

The entry J-box often connects the flexible cord to the romex that continues to the main panel.

Other common option is behind the main panel or in a compartment where the main power feed passes through.

When you say panel, you mean the converter, right? I'll check tommorrow, but my dilemma may be space. Behind the 30 amp receptacle happens to be underneath the fridge. I'd say the space is about 36" by 26".

Other than the j-box, which I'll hunt down tommorrow, that compartment contains (gulp) the water heater, the water pump, the outdoor shower, the circuit system for the slideout, and of course the bypass valves and all kinds of wiring/hoses.

On a sidenote, the other downside of the trailer is you cannot access these things with the slideout closed. Not even the fridge. You do have some exterior access however, through the shower, which BTW, I added a cool little conversion.

But that EMS-HW30C looks dang sweet with the romote display. I will add it if I can, though if it looks over my head, I'll need to pay someone. Maybe an electrician or RV dude. How many hours you figure?

Thanks for the great info.

[CA_Traveler]

Denny & Jami wrote:

smkettner wrote:

Denny & Jami wrote:
CA Traveler before you start saying it's safe to hook to a 30 to 50 I suggest you look at the way some of the 30 amp cords are connected to the inside the trailer.

My initial connection is in a metal J-box.

You may have a metal J-box but how are the wires connected inside of that box, are they just wire nuts that came come loose over time or never tight to begin with. Loose connections cause heat that raises the temp in the wires causing more resistance causing more amp draw and more heat. Eventually the wire outside the box will start to melt causing a fire hazard. If you are on a 30 and breaker like your system is designed to have you have a better chance of the breaker tripping. You don't have to have a short for a breaker to trip, if you draw over 80% of a breakers rated value for a long period of time it will trip on internal heat just like its designed to do, it's a built in safety factor. I'm not guessing on this stuff, my business was located in a town next to a COE lake and I did a lot of service calls on trailers for just this kind problem. Do what ever you want but remember there are other RVs parked close to you don't make your problem their problem.

As far as EMS or surge protectors I don't use one but they came be useful and helpful if you aren't sure of your incoming power, I always check ours before I plug in if it looks a little less than ideal. I do use a 20amp surge receptacle for the entertainment center to protect our electronic equipment from lightning. They are a one time protection so you have to check them to make sure the green light is still on, if it's not it did its job and will have to be replaced. It will still work but you will no longer be protected.

Denny

Good to clarify your post. Any rig that is not maintained in good condition is subject to various problems. But I contend that a 30A rig drawing 30A and it's cord drawing an additional 20A due to a partial short in the cord to CB wiring is a remote possibility. But should it happen the 30A wiring would be overloaded when on a 50A pedestal plug.

Of course a 30A rig drawing 22A could also have problems with faulty wiring.

BTW Many times some of us have posted that wiring should be checked/tightened periodically because a rig unlike a house vibrates down the road.

[time2roll]

ZZSPIRAL1 wrote:
In reading these posts and what I'm trying to accomplish, it appears the best option is a hardwired surge protector. I don't know if that's an option for my FunFinder 210 UDS, but I'm going to check.

One of the easiest ways to install is to replace the entry J-box with the EMS Surge Protector.

The entry J-box often connects the flexible cord to the romex that continues to the main panel.

Other common option is behind the main panel or in a compartment where the main power feed passes through.

[beemerphile1]

The fact is that RVs without a main breaker exist. Another fact is that we can't know for sure what equipment has been added or modified. Thus a blanket statement of "safe in all conditions" is incorrect.

Likely? No, but possible. It isn't likely that you will be hit by lightning, but yet it happens. :B

[time2roll]

^^^^

So the air draws 12 to 15 amps (dedicated circuit) and the rest is limited to 15 amps.
non-issue.

[sparkydave]

beemerphile1 wrote:

smkettner wrote:
Using a standard adapter to plug a 30 amp RV into a 50 amp pedestal is perfectly safe in all conditions...

I have to disagree with the "safe in all conditions". Some RVs especially some pop ups do not have a main breaker! Most RVs do have a main breaker which would be either 30 amp or tandem 50 amp.

If the RV has a 30 amp main breaker the only thing exposed to 50 amp would be the cord. Even then it would only receive 50 amp if there was a dead short like cutting with a lawn mower or something.

However without a main breaker the panel in the RV could potentially be subjected to the full 50 amps and could smoke things if the panel was only rated for 30.

It is crazy that some manufacturers don't use a main breaker, but it is true.

Even if the panel was only rated for 30, the odds of having some fault that creates an exact 50 amp load are very slim. A direct short circuit, which is far more likely, would trip a 50 amp breaker quickly. Besides, 6000 watts has this way of creating something very hot very quickly, and the power dissipated in the electrical panel which is only rated for 30 amps will be tiny fraction of that. In other words, something else will be smoking long before the panel would. Even if you had a 50 amp panel something would still be going up in smoke and flames.

My popup only has two breakers, one 20 amp for the air conditioning and one 15 amp for the converter and the AC outlets. I would have no qualms about plugging it into a 50 amp outlet if that's all that's available because if there was going to be a 50 amp fault, it would have to happen between the pedestal and the electric panel.

Even if I plugged into a 30 amp pedestal and had a 30 amp fault in the panel, I would still have a major problem. Whether I'm dissipating 3600 watts in a fault in the electric panel or 6000 watts in the electrical panel won't make much difference, something's going to be burning up rapidly.

Even at 50 amps the 10 AWG shore power cord is only dissipating about 100 watts. Oh, it will be getting noticeably warm all right, but I'm more worried about where the other 5900 watts are going.:)

[time2roll]

Denny & Jami wrote:

smkettner wrote:

Denny & Jami wrote:
CA Traveler before you start saying it's safe to hook to a 30 to 50 I suggest you look at the way some of the 30 amp cords are connected to the inside the trailer.

My initial connection is in a metal J-box.

You may have a metal J-box but how are the wires connected inside of that box, are they just wire nuts that came come loose over time or never tight to begin with. Loose connections cause heat that raises the temp in the wires causing more resistance causing more amp draw and more heat. Eventually the wire outside the box will start to melt causing a fire hazard. If you are on a 30 and breaker like your system is designed to have you have a better chance of the breaker tripping. You don't have to have a short for a breaker to trip, if you draw over 80% of a breakers rated value for a long period of time it will trip on internal heat just like its designed to do, it's a built in safety factor. I'm not guessing on this stuff, my business was located in a town next to a COE lake and I did a lot of service calls on trailers for just this kind problem. Do what ever you want but remember there are other RVs parked close to you don't make your problem their problem.

So the RVs with a 30/50 adapter tended to burn up and those direct into 30 amp had no issues?

You can have a wire nut issue no matter what the RV is plugged into. I speculate most wire nut issues are open problems not short circuits melting 30 amp cords plugged into 50 amps.

[ZZSPIRAL1]

smkettner wrote:
Using a standard adapter to plug a 30 amp RV into a 50 amp pedestal is perfectly safe in all conditions.

For a 30 amp RV I have and recommend the Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C.
No display or portable is fine also.

In reading these posts and what I'm trying to accomplish, it appears the best option is a hardwired surge protector. I don't know if that's an option for my FunFinder 210 UDS, but I'm going to check.

[Denny___Jami]

smkettner wrote:

Denny & Jami wrote:
CA Traveler before you start saying it's safe to hook to a 30 to 50 I suggest you look at the way some of the 30 amp cords are connected to the inside the trailer.

My initial connection is in a metal J-box.

You may have a metal J-box but how are the wires connected inside of that box, are they just wire nuts that came come loose over time or never tight to begin with. Loose connections cause heat that raises the temp in the wires causing more resistance causing more amp draw and more heat. Eventually the wire outside the box will start to melt causing a fire hazard. If you are on a 30 and breaker like your system is designed to have you have a better chance of the breaker tripping. You don't have to have a short for a breaker to trip, if you draw over 80% of a breakers rated value for a long period of time it will trip on internal heat just like its designed to do, it's a built in safety factor. I'm not guessing on this stuff, my business was located in a town next to a COE lake and I did a lot of service calls on trailers for just this kind problem. Do what ever you want but remember there are other RVs parked close to you don't make your problem their problem.

As far as EMS or surge protectors I don't use one but they came be useful and helpful if you aren't sure of your incoming power, I always check ours before I plug in if it looks a little less than ideal. I do use a 20amp surge receptacle for the entertainment center to protect our electronic equipment from lightning. They are a one time protection so you have to check them to make sure the green light is still on, if it's not it did its job and will have to be replaced. It will still work but you will no longer be protected.

Denny

[time2roll]

beemerphile1 wrote:

smkettner wrote:
Using a standard adapter to plug a 30 amp RV into a 50 amp pedestal is perfectly safe in all conditions...

I have to disagree with the "safe in all conditions". Some RVs especially some pop ups do not have a main breaker! Most RVs do have a main breaker which would be either 30 amp or tandem 50 amp.

These pop ups generally have two 15a or 20a breakers. One for each branch circuit as allowed by NEC. If this is unsafe please send a message to NEC.

Even if you were to pull 20 amps on each circuit for an extended period an undamaged cord should be fine even if a bit warm.

Truth is if you really hit 40a draw it would only be for a short time during normal use. You would have to put some thought and engineering into creating a 40a continuous draw.

[CA_Traveler]

Wow! If a rig does not have a main breaker then I would have serious reservations about that rig.

But if it's a 20A rig plug into 20A ONLY. If 30A rig then plug into 20A or 30A only.

[2oldman]

beemerphile1 wrote:
However without a main breaker the panel in the RV could potentially be subjected to the full 50 amps and could smoke things if the panel was only rated for 30.

If there is no main breaker, then is it a reasonable assumption that the coach would not have devices which could draw power to even approach 30a?

[beemerphile1]

smkettner wrote:
Using a standard adapter to plug a 30 amp RV into a 50 amp pedestal is perfectly safe in all conditions...

I have to disagree with the "safe in all conditions". Some RVs especially some pop ups do not have a main breaker! Most RVs do have a main breaker which would be either 30 amp or tandem 50 amp.

If the RV has a 30 amp main breaker the only thing exposed to 50 amp would be the cord. Even then it would only receive 50 amp if there was a dead short like cutting with a lawn mower or something.

However without a main breaker the panel in the RV could potentially be subjected to the full 50 amps and could smoke things if the panel was only rated for 30.

It is crazy that some manufacturers don't use a main breaker, but it is true.

[2oldman]

When using CG power there are a lot more things to worry about than the safety of a pigtail. Corroded sockets, breakers that don't work, low voltage. Yes, a quality pigtail is completely safe.