Bad Ground Stumper

[gijoecam]

Our 2004 Jayco JayFeather 29Y has a wiring issue that I can't seem to figure out. I'm pretty sure I've got the problem pinned down to a bad ground, but I can't figure out WHERE that ground connection is to save my life!

The back-story: Everything was fine on our last trip of the season in October. Due to a job change and a couple of non-camping trips early this season, I finally got around to de-winterizing it on the 4th of July. When I connected the truck, most of the lights worked fine, but the upper set of marker lights was out. That includes two amber markers on the front, two red markers at the top of the rear, and the center gang of three at the rear. I was able to locate the point at which the two circuits split (i.e. the upper lights and the lower lights) and isolate the two halves of the circuit. Then I checked for continuity between the suspect circuits origin and the sockets to verify that I had the proper circuit (I did). The thing that had me stumped for a bit this mornin was that I was reading 12V between BOTH of the pins on each of those light sockets, but then it dawned on me that they must all share a common ground (which has failed).

So the million dollar question appears to be: Where the heck is that ground located? I pulled two of the housings (one front, one rear) and all I can see is that there are a pair of black wires on both, and they disappear into the foam wall sandwich. The walls are all fiberglass, so they require a separate ground wire that must terminate somewhere, but I have no clue where that ground would be.

Oh, and I checked the grounds at the main junction box as well... No luck. There are three white wires on a lug that is screwed to the frame, and a single solid wire to ground the junction box itself, but no indication that any of them are the return from the running light circuit. I cleaned them anyways just to be sure, but no luck there. If I could find one near a wall chase that goes down through the floor, I'd just fish a new wire and make a new ground path, but I don't even know where to begin there...

I hate to admit it, but I may be beaten on this one... I may have to suck it up and find a Jayco dealer with some knowledgable techs.

Any ideas?

[gijoecam]

Got the updated pics...


camper 14 by gijoecam, on Flickr

You can see the white wire tucked into the outside corner. I have a couple of blobs of construction adhesive blobbed on there to hold the wire in place.

I didn't bother with any close-ups of the connections... They're nothing fancy.

But it works!!!


camper 15 by gijoecam, on Flickr

I got the exterior bottoned-up, so it's weather-tight again, then left town for Mexico for a few days. Hopefully I can get the bathroom back together in time for our trip next Sunday!!

[gijoecam]

Quick update: Success!! After several evenings of rain, it was dry enough lastnight to finish the repairs. Got the wire fished, spliced, and grounded, and viola! Success! All the upper marker lights are working once again. Of course I have to skip town for work for a few days, but i'll have four days to rebuild the tub and surround before we leave next Sunday for a week. The silicone may still be soft, but we'll get it done! Momma says we have to or no trip!

If anyone wants to see how I ran the wire, I have a couple more in my flickr gallery with the rest, just can't share the link from my phone...

Oh, and Jayco was no help. They emailed me a 7 page document of trakler light schematics supposedly for my trailer. Turns out none of them was actually my trailer!!

[SaltiDawg]

BFL13 wrote:
...
Our three tanks have their valve handles scattered here and there, with two of them over on the other side of the rig from the sewer hose connection. Means no local control over events right where you are, and no quick action if you screwed up and left one of the others open, so you are hit with a flood when you take the cap off. 😞 ...

This concern brings back memories of my Submarine Sea-going days. Using your parlance, we had a black tank for human waste with toilets and urinals located in various bathrooms (heads) throughout the boat. When time to "Blow Sanitary", we would make sure the dump or flush valves were shut and also shut individual valves to make doubly sure! We would then admit high pressure air into the tank and blow the contents to sea. Pity the poor soul that mistakenly opened one of the dump valves prior to the air pressure being vented out of the tank after emptying the tank contents.

Cleanup duty went to the person responsible - no matter what his Rank!:S

[BFL13]

No idea what your Sewer project is all about, but FWIW, one of the best mods I made to our rig, was to add a knife valve right at the sewer hose connection.

Our three tanks have their valve handles scattered here and there, with two of them over on the other side of the rig from the sewer hose connection. Means no local control over events right where you are, and no quick action if you screwed up and left one of the others open, so you are hit with a flood when you take the cap off. 😞

The mod was to add the new valve, and a new cap that has the little screw-on cap. Now you can check for trouble before going all the way, and you can shut it off right now! if trouble.

Also great for filling buckets with grey water under control to be dumped if you don't want to bother moving the rig to the sani-dump just for some grey water. (or if you have a blue tote)

Add the see-through elbow to the hose so you can see when enough is enough--better than watching TV-- 🙂 and you have your sewer situation solved satisfactorily so to speak.

[gijoecam]

I picked up all the supplies for the tub project as well as the materials to modify the sewer hose holder to take the Rhinoflex hose, fittings, and gutter material. Hopefully I can get all this done and back together with no leaks in time to use it in two weeks! The catch? I have to go to Mexico for the weekend for work... d'oh!!

[vic46]

Well that was truly an adventure. Bet you are glad you were not paying shop rates to diagnose and fix that problem. I had a lost ground with the rear (roof) upper clearance/marker lights on a Winnebago MH. Turned out the issue was the ground. I simply ran a new ground and all three lights worked. Heard of a similar "problem" with a VW bug. The story was that one had to remove the front bumper etc. to replace a head light. Don't know if this is true but sure would be a true design disaster!

[BFL13]

Nobody but a fellow RVer would believe you take out the bathtub to fix an outside light!

[gijoecam]

Well, I pulled out the tub surround.


camper wiring 8 by gijoecam, on Flickr

The camper laughed at me, I swear it! (Maybe it was too much sun and heat?) I got mad.

So I pulled the tub too... Then I was able to pull the whole back panel out.


camper wiring 10 by gijoecam, on Flickr

Here's the wiring for the rear left taillight, and the left side rear marker light. It's all 14 gauge wiring, so I'm 100% sure it can handle the load of all of them on one ground. Now the challenge was getting a ground connection point up at the marker lights!

I started at the upper left marker, and could tell that the wires came from towards the center. So I pulled the next one. When I pulled the center light out, there was a loop of green and white wire, but no terminals. When I pulled the right-center light, I found a pair of usable spade connections. Then I used a straightened coat-hanger to reach across from the left-center to the left-most light, and discovered there is a perfect wire chase all the way across the back of the camper. SCORE!!!


camper wiring 12 by gijoecam, on Flickr

THe only thing left to do was to drill the hole to get down through the back wall of the camper. I popped the hole through at a 45 degree angle as far down as I could, and wouldn't you know it? NAILED IT!!!


camper wiring 13 by gijoecam, on Flickr

Now I can fish the new ground across from the center, use the same splice connectors they do from the factory, run it down to the taillight, connect it there, and (hopefully) reinstall the tub.

Wish me luck!!

[gijoecam]

Well, my wife's idea didn't exactly pan out as planned, but I've found a solution that will work. I'll post pics after the kids go to bed. I need some wire and some connectors to spice into the ground, but I can make it work with a separate ground.

, getting the bathroom back together, on the other hand... that could be another story!

[gijoecam]

Lol! My wife may have just made this solution real simple! I was showing her the pics of how I spent my morning... She made a halfway sarcastic comment about me fixing the shower wall panel when I put it back tgether (one of the plastic push-pins never seats right, so the panel pops loose all the time.) Not a big deal, but not worth tearing it apart for no good reason so far....

Then it dawned on me: The only thing holding the shower surround in place is a few of those push-pins and a couple beads of silicone at the top edges! I *think* that if I pull the tub surround I may be able to see into that cavity behind it! If I can, I should be able to see both the marker light and the taillight and make a working repair REAL simple!!

If this works, my wife gets all the credit!! (Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while, right? :P)

[gijoecam]

Since a picture is worth a thousand words....

You can see the green and white pair taped together that runs up to the upper marker lights...


marker lights 2 by gijoecam, on Flickr

Those two wires go down through the floor into this rat's nest:


marker lights 3 by gijoecam, on Flickr

Those two wires join up with two other wires which come from the rear.

marker lights 3 by gijoecam, on Flickr

The white ground wires appear to run all the way back up to the junction box I was in yesterday. Those were the two ground wires I cleaned up yesterday, but they're not part of the problem. Incidentally, I found the wad of ground wires mounted to the frame rail dead between the axles (about the most INconvenient place to work on them should the need ever arise!)


marker lights 4 by gijoecam, on Flickr

Here you can see the bundle of four wires for the marker lights pulled out of their split loom. They come from the junction box up front, enter the camper at some point, cross over the wheel well, and go down through the hole under the fridge, split with one pair going rearward, then one pair going back up through the same hole to the upper marker lights.

Here's where they run in the fridge access:

marker lights 6 by gijoecam, on Flickr


marker lights 7 by gijoecam, on Flickr

At the top, I can see where they turn and go into the chase, but I'm not ready to yank the vent grate off the roof skin just yet...

So that's my saga in photos thus far... Thanks for the moral support gang!

[gijoecam]

BFL13 wrote:
On ours (not a Jayco) the 7-pin green wire is for "Running lights and licence plate" (could your ground be lost at the licence plate?)

No. Different leg of the circuit.

The "running lights" are what I call "clearance lights." I don't know on ours if they are split into groups by location, what a nightmare
:(. I don't know what the OP means by "parking lights" either.

I've been using the terms somewhat interchangeably. As far as the camper and wiring are concerned, the clearance ights, marker lights, parking lights, and running lights are all one in the same. I personally refer to the two amber ones at the top corners of the front cap, the two red ones at the top corners of the rear cap, and the three in the top center of the rear cap as the 'clearance lights,' while the lower ones down the side and the ones in the rear park/brake/turn housings collectively as 'running lights', Parking lights', or 'marker lights.'

As a quick fix, if you want to go camping, can you get at the ground for one of the red lights at the back and run a wire down the back ladder to the frame, taping it to the ladder so it stays there? (Assuming that one working would light them all up as suggested above)

No back ladder to run it down, and a wire left dangling down the back of the camper would not work for long, let alone trying to seal it against the elements. That's why I was thinking the compartment behind the tub surround may provide enough of a cavity for me to fish a wire from the upper clearance lights down to the taillight to share that ground connection.

My temporary fix is to only travel during daylight hours for now. 🙂

[BFL13]

On ours (not a Jayco) the 7-pin green wire is for "Running lights and licence plate" (could your ground be lost at the licence plate?)

The "running lights" are what I call "clearance lights." I don't know on ours if they are split into groups by location, what a nightmare
:(. I don't know what the OP means by "parking lights" either.

As a quick fix, if you want to go camping, can you get at the ground for one of the red lights at the back and run a wire down the back ladder to the frame, taping it to the ladder so it stays there? (Assuming that one working would light them all up as suggested above)

[gijoecam]

MPD56 wrote:
Interesting problem, you’re so close. I went on a Jayco tour and saw a model like mine being built; I watched and asked a lot of questions.
My guess is?
The ground wire going up, goes to one upper light and is daisy chained from there. I can only assume that the wire isn’t broken and it is the first connection. On my Jayco it is accessible (I think yours might be too). I might suggest that you remove one of the upper lights so that you can get at the wire and hook up a temporary good ground, this could confirm that all the grounds to the upper light circuits are good. This might give you another choice to ground the lights from another light if the one in the back is not accessible?

Good Luck

Added: a wire tracer is great idea,

The upper marker lights that these wires feed are located on the front and rear end panels. I suspect the pair of wires (one green hot, one white ground) goes up to the ceiling in the fridge chimney, then splits off, one going forward, and one going rear. It seems like an insanely wire-intensive way of doing it, but appears to be the way they did.

I suspect that splice where it splits to go fore and aft is where the failure is. With power on the marker light circuit from the truck, there is power going to all the upper markers as measured with a long wire back to a good chassis ground point. There is no return path to ground, however, so I show 12v on both terminals of any given receptacle as the power tries to find a ground path. If I can come up with a way to provide one, I darn sure will!