BEWARE!!! Wire Gauges May Not Be What You Think!!!

[MEXICOWANDERER]

More and more I am finding 12 gauge wire that is really 13 gauge, and 14 gauge wire that is actually 15 gauge.

The best way to guard against getting screwed is to purchase only AWG (American Wire Gauge) rated wire from a reputable supplier.

How did I find this out? By "almost" purchasing a roll of "12AWG" wire. I stripped an inch and remarked "That sure looks small". Yeah you would say it was "small". Small enough so it fit easily into a "Blue" 16-14 gauge butt connector. The BOX was marked 12AWG and every half meter the wire was marked "UL" and 12 AWG.

So I got out my 4-terminal resistance meter. Measured the 100 meter long roll. The reading was so much more (higher resistance) than what it was supposed to be, I was shocked.

So I checked the distributor's 10 gauge and 8 gauge. Stupidly under-size.

So, this is a head's up alert. I knew for many years that RV manufacturers say "14 gauge" but it is 14 gauge SAE. 7% smaller than AWG wire.

[DiskDoctr]

wa8yxm wrote:
There are tools to measure wire gauge with, or you can just mic it and look it up on the chart.. (Thanks for the heads up I'll start doing that myself)

IF you get 12 ga that is really 13 or 14, take it back, And report it.

This is where far too many people fall down on the job.. They make a post in a forum somewhere.. What you need to do is notify the safety folks, they have teeth, this forum,, Well one slightly decayed tooth. (by comparison that is.

If the regulatory folks measure 100 or 1,000 samples of wire from that company and they all test "Light".... I would not want to be them.

Got a chart and a place to report?

I have been dismayed at what passes for 12ga house wiring at big box stores in recent years. I've been using all heavier wire (pay more $).

Thanks.

[wa8yxm]

Actually Almot.. The US government has, in place, a trade agreement with China, it stipulates many things and they have taken enforcement action many times.. Now the enforcement action usually bothers the importer more than the exporter. but... When the products you are paying China for wind up in a US Customs disposal facility.... You tend to find a better supplier fairly fast.

And thousands of tons of Chinese products have been destroyed by the US government due to trade violations.. Usually the use of slave labor to make the goods.

[Almot]

Mex, I hear you, with quality products becoming increasingly rare. Especially in Mexico where so many things are imported from either US or China. "Enforce"? You can't enforce anything on Chinese. They will enforce it on you, just give it a little more time. "Their crooked US clients" is what US and Canada is about 🙂 ... Making money no matter what... You can't change those people...

I stopped buying Chinese rice after I noticed something crawling and flying out of the open bag in kitchen cabinet. California rice is slightly more expensive, costs me $2 or 3 more in a month, but at least I don't see those flying things in my dreams.

[deleted-2]

Thanx for the warning here MW.

The worst thing about wire:
Even if the gauge is accurate according to standards is the quality of the conductor.
Copper high in oxygen will present higher amounts of impedance.
MIL STD wire if available will be best.

Stiff wire = fewer conductors
Lax wire = more conductors

[wa8yxm]

There are tools to measure wire gauge with, or you can just mic it and look it up on the chart.. (Thanks for the heads up I'll start doing that myself)

IF you get 12 ga that is really 13 or 14, take it back, And report it.

This is where far too many people fall down on the job.. They make a post in a forum somewhere.. What you need to do is notify the safety folks, they have teeth, this forum,, Well one slightly decayed tooth. (by comparison that is.

If the regulatory folks measure 100 or 1,000 samples of wire from that company and they all test "Light".... I would not want to be them.

[Bob_Landry]

I suspect the wire referenced in the original post was mis-marked. SAE is a legitimate wire gauge and can be 14-18% smaller than AWG sized wire of the same gauge.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

"Same when it comes to strippers, show me a wire that fills the hole marked for that gauge. Sometimes it will strip it, but most times it needs the next smaller size"


Aha!

Glorious Red Dragon People's Factory #232, Wire

Serendipitous Butterfly Warrior Factory, Strippers

[MEXICOWANDERER]

You Ain't Gonna Use "Blue" Connectors With 12 AWG Wire.

Unless there are a dozen little tiny strands of copper "trim" around the work site.

With 12 "SAE" wire it is possible (depending on stranding) to jam it into some "blue" terminals depending on manufacture.

American Wire Gauge is the "Holy Grail" of USA graded wire. It does not vary. The law SHOULD BE enforced that says the Chinese and their crooked US clients should face prison terms for knowingly using sub-size millimeter "substitution" for AWG. With SAE, the rules are looser than a goose.

[Snowman9000]

Just like women's clothing sizes, then. Well, in reverse. 🙂

Boy, I bought some Anderson power pole connectors for 6 and 8 gauge. They are so much larger than the 6 and 8 gauge wire I had, they couldn't begin to work, other than by soldering.

So the quick and dirty solution is to buy the next gauge larger wire, I guess.

[RJsfishin]

This is nothing new to me. Be it the wire or connectors, I have used the blue connectors on 12ga wire for years. Seldom will it not go in. I also figured it was w/ in the tolerance allowed.
Same when it comes to strippers, show me a wire that fills the hole marked for that gauge. Sometimes it will strip it, but most times it needs the next smaller size.

[hugemoth]

That's really scary!

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The 4-wire (low resistance) milli-ohmeter method of measurement computed by wire length is usually the fool-resistant. Wire manufacturers have this kind of equipment and they damned sure know if they are cheating on copper.

The problem is Washington (and probably Ottawa as well) have kicked consumer protection and fair trade practices protection way down on the list.

Since I started helping out in the store, I have found to my sorrow that absolutely ZERO Chinese goods are checked at the factory. None. 00.000000% The goods are made, packaged, sealed and loaded onto pallets.

You do not make a 1,650 watt heater with 17 gauge power wire but that is exactly what is happening. The heater WILL work for awhile. But the wire termination at the plug WILL degrade and there will be smoke. Yet the devices have the guts to proclaim UL certification. So last month I grabbed a four devices. A heater, a hand mixer, a fan, and a toaster. I telephoned Underwriters Laboratories.

Corporate Headquarters
333 Pfingsten Road
Northbrook, IL 60062-2096
Telephone: +1.847.272.8800
Customer Service: +1.877.UL.HELPS (1.877.854.3577)
E-mail: cec@us.ul.com
Map and driving directions
Hours of operation: Monday to Friday, 7:00 AM to 6:00 PM

Wanna know what they told me? Those "UL" tag and decals had UL certification numbers do not exist in the UL database. The power brick for my laptop has a certification number and indeed UL had it listed.

U.S. Customs is allowing this dangerous garbage passage into the USA. Someone is really really screwed-up with their priorities. Heaters that do not pass hi-pot case to neutral specs. Hand mixers (beaters) that had sixty volts plus emitted into what was being beaten. Toasters with metal cases and ground wires left disconnected right off the assembly line. I'm talking about a green wire with crimped ring terminal with no hole and no screw to connect it to. Lamps with metal bases that have the lamp sockets twisted so neutral makes beautiful contact with the base.

Beware. We have become a nation of satisfied second rate consumers.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

In measuring AWG solid wire (major brands) I've found it to consistently have less cross-sectional area than the published specs. I've wondered if the the AWG specs allow for a tolerance and with modern manufacturing they can consistently hit the lower end of the allowed range? Of course if it's from China, all bets are off. On the other hand, the couple pieces of welding cable I've looked at have conformed dead-on with the tables.

[powderman426]

There will always be someone scamming. Thanks for the heads up.

[Tom_M1]

I recently purchased some #8 copper wire on eBay. It turned out to be CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum). There was no mention of it in the ad.