Change to Lithium-ion?

Still too expensive for me but I’d love the lighter weight and minimum maintenance. But if you camp in below freezing temperatures regularly, not practical.

Just finished making the change. Here is a link to the change.

In addition to the cost, you really need some kind of battery management system on LiFePOs. The voltage doesn't just trail off like wet cells. I've read RV bloggers that went over to lithiums and they spend a good part of their leisure time tracking exactly how many amp hours they've used so they know when to start charging. Not my idea of fun, so when it came to battery time, I went with the tried and true GC2s.

Kind of a funny thing but both our electric cars which use lithium ion traction batteries actually use small AGM batteries for the 12 volt cabin needs. Go figur. Most suspect it is done from a cost perspective. Interesting though.

Gonzo42 wrote:

Optima is one of the brands.

I'm not aware of any optima li batteries.

I think it's best to bite the bullet and get drop-ins instead of trying to go as cheap as possible and do your own Bms.

An amp hour meter is a good investment for knowing the state of charge, although my Li pack does drop in voltage as it discharges.

A very interesting article. I hope you will follow up with results of this shift to LI.

vermilye wrote:
Just finished making the change. Here is a link to the change.

I was considering AGM for the next go around. I think I've just been talked out of it. I should be at retirement age when my current battery bank needs upgrading. Of course, maybe I'll upgrade the RV first. It's getting long in the tooth for sure.

Thanks for the write-up, Jon Vermilye.

Lithium ion or lithium iron phosphate?

They different chemistries, you know. Lithium ion batteries have the higher charge density and the lower weight, but are prone to catch fire if not carefully controlled. I've seen no mention of using lithium ion batteries on RVs (which doesn't mean nobody's doing it). I HAVE seen lithium iron phosphate batteries touted as solar and RV batteries, and a company called BattleBorn sells a 12 volt LiFePO4 battery that is supposed to be a direct drop in replacement for standard lead-acid batteries, requiring no change in charging parameters at the charger programming level.

LiFePO4 vs Li-ion explained (Do note that the authors of this article mistake "lithium ion phosphate" for "lithium iron phosphate" which is the correct name for this battery chemistry. Other than this typo/bit of nonsense, I have no other issues with the article.)

It should be noted @vermilye's link to the Lithium Battery Project page is to a LiFePO4 project, NOT a lithium ion project.

I have been considering it for my RV, but the price of the LiFePO4 battery is high enough to give me pause.

naturist wrote:
Lithium ion or lithium iron phosphate?

Ask WFCO, the purveyors of everyone's favorite garbage converters that never go into bulk charge mode, and if they do it's probably going to boil off your batteries. They now bring you this which they call a Lithium Ion solution. At least thats what they say on their home page ad.



Then if you click on it, it magically becomes a Lithium Iron Phosphate solution.

Do they say why they are using them in the hot rod world? As just a starting battery, there isn't much to gain. Your average 50lb starting battery will do just fine starting most V8 engines and the alternator is really what is powering the lights and other auxiliary electrical devices.

In an RV house battery bank, there are some advantages but at a higher cost. Particularly if you are installing a large battery bank, the benefits can outweigh the downsides.

The main thing is KWH of storage per Pound and per Cubic Inch is greater with Lithium. That means with limited storage space and weight limits, you can either fit more KWH in the same space/weight or free up space/payload.

If you are at campgrounds with power most of the time, it really won't make much sense but if you are boondocking a lot away from shore power, it can be very helpful.

Not only can you store more KWH, when recharging from say a generator, they can absorb charge quickly right up to 100% charge. With lead-acid, at around 80-90%, the charge acceptance drops off and it takes a very long time to hit 100%...add in that lead-acid doesn't like to go below 50% charge (vs 10% for lithium) and you really can only use 30-40% of the rated KWH in a lead-acid battery bank...as opposed 80-90% of the rated KWH of a lithium bank.

But even so, Lithium is expensive and you need the proper charging/control systems as they are not as forgiving of the abuse that we put lead-acid thru.