Check your Shore Power Plug & RV wire connections regularly!

[lb311]

I've been RVing for 10 years and full-timing for almost 2, but last month I nearly started my rig on fire due to my RV's 110 electrical system going haywire.

My problems started one night last month with circuit breakers flipping when I was running my ceramic heater. I'd been running the heater fine for weeks and my RV is currently parked for the season, so nothing had changed from the day before. Once I reset the breaker the 3rd time, things seemed to work o.k. again, but within a few days I started noticing a slight smokey smell whenever I was running a "high-demand" electrical appliance (i.e. space heater, microwave, hair dryer, etc). The appliances continued to work so I didn't immediately investigate the problem. But a few days later when I finally did, oh good heavens!

Opening the access panel of my power center/converter revealed some severely charred 110 wiring (all of my neutral buss wires were burnt to a crisp!). I stopped using 110 electric immediately, and the next day, the park's electrician came to check my outside power pedestal for any miswiring or other problems. It checked out fine, so the problem was deemed with my RV. The electrician suggested I start troubleshooting from my surge protector all the way to my power center/converter to look for loose or faulty wires.

Long story short, I discovered that the wiring inside my shore power plug had become faulty due to one of the screw posts rubbing against the ground wire's insulation until it finally wore thru. This created a "hot neutral" condition which then burned up the neutral buss wires in my power center as well as the neutral prong receptacle of my surge protector (that the shore power plug was plugged into).

So my tip to all fellow RVers is to inspect your shore power plug regularly (at least annually), and routinely double-check all your power center wiring (and any other RV wiring you can easily access) for any loose connections as well.

I thought my fancy $200+ surge protector would keep my rig safe from any and all electrical problems. Nope! It can't prevent the RV-side electrical problems, it only protects you from those lurking at the power pedestal! I learned a valuable lesson...and dodged a major bullet by getting this fixed before a fire started!

If you're interested in further details and photos of my saga... check out my blog posts here and here.

[Chris_Bryant]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

A properly soldered termination, sealed with dual-wall heat shrink tube AND supported correctly with a ADEL-type strain relief clamp is damned near invincible.

OK, do YOU do that on your line voltage stuff? (which is what this is about). Romex? SO ? Really?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Aeronautical wiring. Sorta familiar with that. All the way to cryogenic level. Any alloy solder is absolutely forbidden for cryogenic exposure. Mating materials MUST have thermal co-coefficient's that are suitable from surface ambient temps, to as low as -459.7F all the way to re-entry temps in excess of 350F.

But absolutely copper-free welding wire demanded by nuclear gamma ray resistance is sorta non justifiable for a trailer hitch. This is just as relevant as declaring soldering undesirable because of cryogenic sensitivity.

FAA/PMA is stuck in the 1940's. I got lectured many decades ago about my "audacity" to flaunt my responsibility regarding the soldering of a voltage regulator plug to a dual engine aircraft with Lycoming engines. I put my PMA number on the repair performed in Mexico. The smartass investigator was rocked back on his heels when I asked him "Have you ANY idea at all about the number of SOLDERED CONNECTIONS inside the alternators and Prestolite starters?"

A properly soldered termination, sealed with dual-wall heat shrink tube AND supported correctly with a ADEL-type strain relief clamp is damned near invincible. Properly crimped and sealed terminals are excellent but the difference lies in the environment. Tropical salt air is nasty. Leave a ready to assemble conductor and termination unsealed for ONE HOUR and you is scaroowed sonny. That's plenty of time for salt to accumulate and then starting to have it's way with the wire just when you slop on the last coat of preservative. Six months / a year / the connection will eventually fail with any kind of load on it.

Laurel & Hardy grade construction really rears it's ugly head down here. A few thousand miles on Mexican roads then park near the ocean will bring out the ugly in RV electrical construction.

[wa8yxm]

SoundGuy wrote:

Duck wrote:
I have seen a lot of the electrical problems being caused by poor workmanship when the employee uses a twist lock to connect two wires. When I find one I fix it and then wrap the incoming wires to the twist lock with a electrical tape.

Not me ... every wire connection like this I come across gets soldered and enclosed in shrink wrap ... never any subsequent connection issues. :B

Sound Guy (Of course you'd know how to do that) I mentioned up-thread I think (or in a few threads recently) that I use a "Superior method" to connect what used to be wire nutted flexible to solid wire connections.... Just so you knwo.. Same one you use.. Though I do not always use shrink wrap. (Heat shrink tubing) sometimes I use a tape wrap of one or another kind.

But then I'm an Electronics Technician so naturally I too know how to solder.

[wa8yxm]

Several reasons you might wish to think twice about using electric space heaters in MOST Rv's.. (mine has been modified)

They tend to use 14GA wire save for one or two circuits (Like the washer dryer) and this, is SUPPOSED to handle 15 amps. but each breaker feeds multiple outlets

The wire is "Lowest Bidder" and quite frankly I'm not sure it's up to spec. I've handled 12 and 14ga for many years and today's 14 feels more like 16 or 18.
Also copper is the #2 conductor of electricity (Silver is #1) but copper alloy is less expensive, and less conductive But measures the same on a wire gauge tool.

The outlets are usually "Quick Boxes" QBs use "punch down" connections this is where the wire is punched down into a "V" shaped slot that cuts through the insulation giving a very good low current,\ low contact area connection. But at double digit amp readings it is **** extra smelly. (As you noticed)

The wires in the Distribution panel are clamped in Now houses are normally close to the same temp year around, but RV's not so much.. As the wires and the clamps heat and cool the wire flattens and needs to be re-tightrened.. Unless someone like me tightens it that is (And darn few do it as tight as I do.. Trust me it's pre-flattened when I tighten it).


How I modified my RV.. IN my case this was easy as routing the wires was via pre-existing paths No holes ave the box mounting holes had to be cut.

I installed Two HEAVY DUTY wall outlets, these are standard house 15/20 amp outlets,m installed in a box,, Just like in a house, with 12GA wire wrapped aroudn a screw and TIGHTENED (See how I tighten) and one outlet only on the breakers that feed them. (Two outlets two breakers)

NO problems with hot wires. Not one, since I did that.

[2oldman]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
There are enough regulations in place to insure that when a 1,650 watt heater is connected to a 15-amp breaker, the receptacle MUST PASS 15-amps regardless of time working. Overload a circuit and the breaker faults.

x2.

We worry about dangers that are extremely unlikely to happen, while ignoring the ones right in front of us.

That's why we have constant discussions about fueling with the propane on, not using 6v batteries because one could die, and getting hacked on public wifi. But running a 1600w heater is ok because the electricity is "free" and I don't want to use my propane.

[SoundGuy]

Chris Bryant wrote:
Romex, or more precisely NM type wire is what is usually used in RVs for 120 volt wiring. IMHO, soldering a 120 volt connection is not the right way to go, I simply cannot see dragging a torch or heavy iron in to install an air conditioner, or any appliance. For other, low voltage connections, rated crimp connectors with adhesive heat shrink is the *only* method that is universally approved, up to, and including spaceflight.

No worries, I don't expect I'll be taking my TT into space. :W

As for soldering I've been doing this for ... let me see, ummm ... 56 yrs now, so I think I'm good with it, thanks. 😉

[Chris_Bryant]

SoundGuy wrote:

Chris Bryant wrote:
You solder and shrink wrap Romex ?

Not sure where Romex enters into this conversation but sure, it too is just wire so soldering connections beats merely twisting the wires together and wrapping them with electrical tape that will only dry and loosen over time. With solid wire I'd at the very least twist the connection together then secure / insulate it with a suitably sized Marrette Connector, then enclose the entire thing with shrink wrap rather than tape to ensure it doesn't ever come apart.

Romex, or more precisely NM type wire is what is usually used in RVs for 120 volt wiring. IMHO, soldering a 120 volt connection is not the right way to go, I simply cannot see dragging a torch or heavy iron in to install an air conditioner, or any appliance. For other, low voltage connections, rated crimp connectors with adhesive heat shrink is the *only* method that is universally approved, up to, and including spaceflight.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

It rates a sticky. "Nuff Said.

[lb311]

I agree MexicoWanderer. I posted this same topic on another board, and we've now determined that the cause of my "melt-down" was likely one or more loose and/or corroded connections on the neutral buss of the power center. They were a slow ticking time bomb, that quickly accelerated when I began running a ceramic heater this winter. This combo eventually caused the whole buss to overheat and wires to melt.

Even though, when I first discovered the fried wires, they all seemed tightly secured into the buss, what I've now learned is that corrosion (or the residue from the arcing) could make loose connections appear tight and fine, when in fact, they were not.

So, a very important reminder to everyone to safe-check their electrical connections regularly....and ESPECIALLY if you plan to use a high-draw continuous appliance such as an electric heater!

Lynne

[MEXICOWANDERER]

j-d wrote:
An OP here lost all power in his Class C. I looked at the wiring diagrams and called him, asking he find the splice box where the hard-wired flexible shore tie cable met the solid interior wiring of the coach. He did, and the connections were burnt out. Re-connected and all was well. Called the RV tech he'd scheduled to come look at it and tech asked if he'd been using portable electric heaters. OP said Yes and RV tech said failure at that splice is very common and heaters are the common cause.

There are enough regulations in place to insure that when a 1,650 watt heater is connected to a 15-amp breaker, the receptacle MUST PASS 15-amps regardless of time working. Overload a circuit and the breaker faults.

99.99999% of these kinds of failures in a conventional home with resultant fire, would make headlines, cause massive lawsuits, court orders, investigations with some leading to criminal charges.

In an RV people DIE from this flagrant lack of regulatory enforcement and everyone treats it as a "What Me Worry?" problem.

Gotta question for any who care to answer

WHY DON'T WE HEAR OF THIS PROBLEM IN STRUCTURES? HOMES, OFFICES? ETC?

I find it difficult to believe what I am reading here. It's YOUR LIFE. But please do not park near or upwind of my rig.

The swallowing of perfectly good threads while ignoring sticky quality posts is discouraging. Why even reply?

[SoundGuy]

Duck wrote:
I have seen a lot of the electrical problems being caused by poor workmanship when the employee uses a twist lock to connect two wires. When I find one I fix it and then wrap the incoming wires to the twist lock with a electrical tape.

SoundGuy wrote:
Not me ... every wire connection like this I come across gets soldered and enclosed in shrink wrap ... never any subsequent connection issues. :B

Chris Bryant wrote:
You solder and shrink wrap Romex ?

Not sure where Romex enters into this conversation but sure, it too is just wire so soldering connections beats merely twisting the wires together and wrapping them with electrical tape that will only dry and loosen over time. With solid wire I'd at the very least twist the connection together then secure / insulate it with a suitably sized Marrette Connector, then enclose the entire thing with shrink wrap rather than tape to ensure it doesn't ever come apart.

[Chris_Bryant]

SoundGuy wrote:

Duck wrote:
I have seen a lot of the electrical problems being caused by poor workmanship when the employee uses a twist lock to connect two wires. When I find one I fix it and then wrap the incoming wires to the twist lock with a electrical tape.

Not me ... every wire connection like this I come across gets soldered and enclosed in shrink wrap ... never any subsequent connection issues. :B

You solder and shrink wrap Romex ?

[SoundGuy]

Duck wrote:
I have seen a lot of the electrical problems being caused by poor workmanship when the employee uses a twist lock to connect two wires. When I find one I fix it and then wrap the incoming wires to the twist lock with a electrical tape.

Not me ... every wire connection like this I come across gets soldered and enclosed in shrink wrap ... never any subsequent connection issues. :B

[Duck]

I have seen a lot of the electrical problems being caused by poor workmanship when the employee uses a twist lock to connect two wires. When I find one I fix it and then wrap the incoming wires to the twist lock with a electrical tape.
Don