Cost of propane vs gas generator.

[TenOC]

I have read a lot about the pro/con of gas/propane generators. I have an almost new champion 75537i 3100 watt remote start inverter gas generator. I am in the process of purchasing a used FW that comes with a built in Onam Marquis 5500 Propane generator. I am not paying extra for the Onam generator -- it is part of the deal so in effect it is free.

My question: Disregarding all the pro/con of the two generators and assuming I have access to both propane and gas at a reasonable price, which generator will cost less to rum? . . . :h

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The air conditioner fights to extract water. A dehumidifier sends condenser exit sit back into the room. My dehumidifier of course is home-made. It's a 5,000 BTU Gold Star mechanical controls unit with the compressor running 100% load, and fan speed roughly 40-50% that of the original fan's lowest speed. Below the evaporator is a tray with steep drain incline. Condensed water flows down into a trap, then outside into a six gallon empty paint bucket. Dehumidified air out the front, heated air out the back. It cannot be used in a high humidity start up mode as the evaporator freezes up. It's job is to take over once the A/C gets humidity into the 60% bracket. Without the dehumidifier the R/H stays in the sixties. With it going, humidity drops to low forties - and that, makes all the difference in the world. Comfortable mid eighties temp with the A/C cycling 50%

[red31]

90 deg/90% requires a dew point of 85.5 degrees

[pnichols]

pianotuna wrote:
So, if you have a heat source and an air conditioner you may be able to make yourself comfortable again. Heaters, of course, are much less expensive than a dehumidifier.

Don ... exactly what we had to do once in the past (see my earlier post in this thread) when we didn't have a dehumidifier in the RV.

It worked very well, and of course can even be done while drycamping if you have a generator with enough capacity for both the A/C and an electric heater. If not, just run the A/C off a generator and use the RV's propane furnace. It takes some fine tuning of the A/C setting and the heat source setting - but it can be done so as to get a good comfort level. By fine tuning the settings, this approach can be used in a variety of temperature-humidity combinations.

[pianotuna]

Hi Mex,

This may seem counter intuitive but it does work well.

I first encountered clammy cold in Hannibal, MO. The RV was cold but it was uncomfortable to say the least. I did have a good 30 amp connection, so I turned on a 700 watt electric heater. Within an hour R.H. had dropped and the RV was comfortable to be inside.

So, if you have a heat source and an air conditioner you may be able to make yourself comfortable again. Heaters, of course, are much less expensive than a dehumidifier.

I've even been known to add a heater when the dehumidifier could not keep up with the task of reducing humidity. The nicest part is that there is no bucket to empty.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Clammy heat is inside with 85F and 60% R/H not outside. Oooooo as I write this, it's 83F with 67% R/H. To keep the sweat down a fan is blowing on me, my arms and legs have cold skin and my head is sweating. My beloved dehumidifier is thousands of miles from here.

[CJW8]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
One + thing + leads + to + another, moment...

Arizona. Been there during the monsoon season. Is not the 110F season the one with extremely low humidity? As in swamp cooler season? I am not asking this for the fun of it.

Mex, this was in mid June (very dry) before the monsoons came but we were right on the shore of Lake Roosevelt so there was some humidity but not much. I had a portable misting system running outside under the awning which everyone loved.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Clammy heat is inside with 85F and 60% R/H not outside. Oooooo as I write this, it's 83F with 67% R/H. To keep the sweat down a fan is blowing on me, my arms and legs have cold skin and my head is sweating. My beloved dehumidifier is thousands of miles from here.

This was great when I was young. 95 at midnight, sleeping out under the overhang laying atop an army cot. Then horsepacking later. Goethe Lake outside Bishop 12,000 ft altitude. Every morning, waking up to 10F in August (1983) while Bishop sweltered under 100F temperatures. Golden trout fishing for 2 weeks stay.

But my body betrays me in the autumn of my years. I blame it on "thin skin of the aged". I can tolerate neither heat nor cold like I used to. Sitting in an armchair shivering and sweating at the same time is not my idea of fun. God gave me a brain. I used it. Excessive humidity is the gremlin. I crunched numbers using kWh meters.

Ooooooo, guess what? By cycling the A/C, maintaining a higher temperature but with lower humidity, I became much more comfortable and saved a substantial amount of kWh money doing it.

In my Antelope Valley shop, I heard innumerable air conditioners roaring in the distance. Some of the homes I visited struggled to get temperatures down into the high 80's. I fine tuned a swamp cooler and shivered under its direct blast. Air temp 78F R/H 32% throughout the shop.

High in the mountains, nose bleeds with winter relative humidity levels of 2%. Boiling water atop the wood stove - less wood consumed and no nose bleeds.

Relative humidity is a key component of comfort. To ignore it is foolish if you value your comfort and the contents of your wallet.

[MrWizard]

Right now that area is 90f 43 rh

We have members from that area
They can tell you
What's what

[red31]

ahh, the ole claim of 90/90

Currently DFW, 90F, dew point 74F, rh 59%

propane pressure over 100 psi today! won't make it to 200 psi today

[MrWizard]

I grew up in the 'Ohio River Valley'
On the Indiana side of the Ohio River
All summer rh 90 percent rain every week, thunder Storm's
Temp in the 90s and above, going as high as 108 IIRC
Millions live thru it every year
It's not clammy heat, it's Prickly heat

[pnichols]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
But AC by itself is a loser...

I've never experienced that. What I have experienced is UNDER-SIZED and FAILING air conditioning installations.

I'm a fan of BTU over-kill heat pump and air conditioning systems with both variable speed compressors and variable speed circulation fans. I sized and picked out the air-to-air heat pump currently in our home. It has handled all outside temperature or outside humidity conditions with ease - putting our home at any temperature we want regardless of what's going on outside temperature-wise (including still continuing to heat with only high 20's outside tempertures!) or humidity-wise. Whisper quiet when it needs to be ... but powerful as all get out when it needs to be.

Over-sized A/C is the name of the game ... if everything in the unit is variable under automatic control. Also, those scroll compressors are wonderful.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Ive never encountered "stable" weather but the moonsoons usually bring temperatures in the high eighties or low nineties with R/H in the 70% range.

But AC by itself is a loser...

I nick-named what you experienced CLAMMY HELL. Over eighty degrees. Almost intolerable without a fan. So the fan blows and the skin gets chilled and teeth get gnashed. The answer is a dehumidifier. Most folks decide on a way-too-small capacity unit. And to make things even more of a PITA, there should be good air circulation to bring moist air to the unit. Otherwise it is spinning it's wheels eating kWh.

My God. 110F with humidity over say 40% would kill people right and left. Certain areas of the world, like the Becca Valley in Iraq suffer this killer clime seasonally and somehow the Bedouins endure it. It has killed fit US armed forces personnel.

In tropical savanna country I learned a lot. First: When first turned on, A/C does zero to lower temperature. All of the energy is being used to precipitate water vapor. When R/H approaches 60% the temperature starts to drop. But then clammy hell sets in.

I can easily tolerate 85F. I love it as a matter of fact, when the R/H is below 40%

But the A/C cannot walk and chew gum. The dehumidifier if large enough extracts that magic 20% band of humidity. My 15' x 20' room dehumidifier extracts about 32 pints in a 24 hour period worst case humidity (intense rainstorm, fast clearing skies, hot sun). That's four gallons and it is transported to the hen house. The new casita will be sealed a lot better. The girls pile through the front door, conspiratorially spaced 5 seconds apart and all that work for nothing. Sigh. I need a mud room entrance.

[pnichols]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Arizona. Been there during the monsoon season. Is not the 110F season the one with extremely low humidity? As in swamp cooler season? I am not asking this for the fun of it.

David ... I'm not sure what you question/comment above means ... BUT, doesn't low-altitude Arizona have BOTH 110F temperatures PLUS high humidity during it's summer monsoon season? If so ... this is of course the worst of both worlds, and means A/C all the way, baby!

We experienced this once in a Deep South RV trip we went on in July-August (I'll never do that again). We once on this trip had only 85F outside but with probably ~100% humidity. We had to set their controls just right and then run BOTH an electric heater and the air conditioner to create a not-to-cold and not-to-hot, but dry, 72F inside the RV.

I called that an "energy intensive emergency dehumidifier".

[discovery4us]

pnichols wrote:

discovery4us wrote:
Also the LPG generator doesn't seem to be effected by elevation or weather like my other gas Onan.

Hmmmm ... I've never heard anyone mention elevation or weather affecting their gas Onan. What vintage was your gas Onan generator?

It was in a 2005 Raptor TH. It had the elevation slide but it was rather temperamental. 5 foot elevation at the coast it would run smooth. High desert it would stumble and barely run. Tune it to run for the high desert and then it would stumble at the coast. Down around freezing it would barely start and running it in the high 90 - to 100+ degrees and it would shut off every 30 - 40 minutes and need a 15 minute cool down before it would restart. My Onan authorized service was great to deal with but it was never quite right. I thought I got a lemon but every time I dropped mine off there would be two or three others in there with similar problems. Nature of the beast I guess.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

One + thing + leads + to + another, moment...

Arizona. Been there during the monsoon season. Is not the 110F season the one with extremely low humidity? As in swamp cooler season? I am not asking this for the fun of it.