FOB keys and theft

[ajriding]

Keep those in a faraday bag or case when not in use. New vehicles only need the key close to the car, then when FOB is close the door will open and the push-button start will crank the engine and unlock the wheel.
Thieves can amplify your FOB signal (which always broadcast), and send it to your vehicle while you are away and just like that they are driving off.
Or they can clone your FOB signal and duplicate it.
Faraday bags will block the signal, and are around $10 on eBay.

[schlep1967]

Well now that this is obviously happening every day at WallyWorld, I'm going to be holding my FOB up in the air so the thieves can see I am pushing the button so they know to duplicate the signal and steal my car. As long as the key isn't in the car my insurance company will buy me a new car! A new car every month!!!

[JaxDad]

ktmrfs wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:


Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

.........

4) no way to just have a spare Key

Spares are easy to obtain.

key to open the door, yes, those are inexpensive, RFID key or a key to let you start the car, in Most cases nope, need a keyless go fob. even if the fob battery is dead, place the fob next to the keyless go to start, but no way to have a real key to start the car. There are/were a few exceptions, where there is a hidden slot for a RFID key to start the car. AFAIK all the keyless go systems also have a key in the fob to let you unlock the car, but that's about it. Early on keyless it was common to have a hidden key slot but most mfg have gone away with that since the FOB w/o a battery near the keyless go button is a work around to a spare key slot.

Read my earlier post, I’ve had numerous RFID chips duplicated, cheap and easy to do.

Many car mfg have gone away from a seperate RFID or similar chip in the fob, when the got away from a key with a chip and went completely to keyless go with no "emergency key" to start the car.

On every 'kelyless go' car I've seen so far (including all my MB's and my employees Porsche's and Audi's) the 'keyless go' button is just like a permanently installed push-button key that fits into the ignition spot the same as any conventional digital key would if you didn't have the 'keyless go' option installed.

If the push-button dies or is inop. for any reason you just pop the button out and inset the key into the ignition slot, just like they did back in the 'old days'. LOL

In fact when I got my bride her new MB I pulled the 'keyless go' button out of the old one (we gave her old car to my daughter who was afraid the children would start the car with it) and had it programmed into her new one.

[ktmrfs]

Retired JSO wrote:
Most new GM vehicles, additional fobs can be programmed in the car itself. I have a C7 Corvette and used this procedure to program my additional fob.
Fob Programming

yes GM is easy. on my denali it uses chip keys and as long as you have two working keys, additional keys are around $15 each and they are easy to program with good instructions in the manual. Same with fobs. But the fob's aren't inexpensive. at least the chip keys are cheap and small. With the chip keys I have an extra key on with each of my trailer key rings, along with extra keys in the trailer.

And on my older MB the chip keys or fobs came preprogrammed. Give all the info to the dealer by 4pm and by 8am the next day pickup the key or fob and good to go. No programming needed.

On our Acura with keyless go, dealers and key shops can do a new fob, but they aren't inexpensive.

[Retired_JSO]

Most new GM vehicles, additional fobs can be programmed in the car itself. I have a C7 Corvette and used this procedure to program my additional fob.
Fob Programming

[ktmrfs]

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:


Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

.........

4) no way to just have a spare Key

Spares are easy to obtain.

key to open the door, yes, those are inexpensive, RFID key or a key to let you start the car, in Most cases nope, need a keyless go fob. even if the fob battery is dead, place the fob next to the keyless go to start, but no way to have a real key to start the car. There are/were a few exceptions, where there is a hidden slot for a RFID key to start the car. AFAIK all the keyless go systems also have a key in the fob to let you unlock the car, but that's about it. Early on keyless it was common to have a hidden key slot but most mfg have gone away with that since the FOB w/o a battery near the keyless go button is a work around to a spare key slot.

Read my earlier post, I’ve had numerous RFID chips duplicated, cheap and easy to do.

Many car mfg have gone away from a seperate RFID or similar chip in the fob, when the got away from a key with a chip and went completely to keyless go with no "emergency key" to start the car. The remote programming is in the IC in the fob that also controls the other functions. For those keys (I have several) key shops have the same comment. They have NO way of just programming anything other than a new fob that will start the car. they have access to fobs, and can program them, but they aren't inexpensive.

For those that still may have a Chip for the imobilizer in the fob, programming those, especially if they have a chip key as well is easy peasy and inexpensive. But those are rapidly going extinct.

As an ex design engineer I can see why they have gone to this process.
1) they aren't relying on a 3rd party chip and how long it will be made
2)_ don't need to mount it in the fob
3) adding this to an in house dedicated IC they have control over the mfg of (even if it is an outside foundry) is adding zip to mfg cost and reduces assembly costs
4) makes it much harder for someone to clone a key for theft

However it does mean no longer a low cost way of a backup. to bad they don't just offer a "spare" key option like in the past that is just a fob like device with blade key for the doors and no other functions that will just unlock and start the car

[JaxDad]

ktmrfs wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:


Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

.........

4) no way to just have a spare Key

Spares are easy to obtain.

key to open the door, yes, those are inexpensive, RFID key or a key to let you start the car, in Most cases nope, need a keyless go fob. even if the fob battery is dead, place the fob next to the keyless go to start, but no way to have a real key to start the car. There are/were a few exceptions, where there is a hidden slot for a RFID key to start the car. AFAIK all the keyless go systems also have a key in the fob to let you unlock the car, but that's about it. Early on keyless it was common to have a hidden key slot but most mfg have gone away with that since the FOB w/o a battery near the keyless go button is a work around to a spare key slot.

Read my earlier post, I’ve had numerous RFID chips duplicated, cheap and easy to do.

[ktmrfs]

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:


Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

.........

4) no way to just have a spare Key

Spares are easy to obtain.

key to open the door, yes, those are inexpensive, RFID key or a key to let you start the car, in Most cases nope, need a keyless go fob. even if the fob battery is dead, place the fob next to the keyless go to start, but no way to have a real key to start the car. There are/were a few exceptions, where there is a hidden slot for a RFID key to start the car. AFAIK all the keyless go systems also have a key in the fob to let you unlock the car, but that's about it. Early on keyless it was common to have a hidden key slot but most mfg have gone away with that since the FOB w/o a battery near the keyless go button is a work around to a spare key slot.

[fj12ryder]

I thought it was a bit of a hassle to replace the fob, or have a spare made, and costly also. I'm referring to the keyless fobs. Which I really see no need for, just another gadget that serves little purpose, and adds expense.

[JaxDad]

ktmrfs wrote:


Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

.........

4) no way to just have a spare Key

Spares are easy to obtain.

[ktmrfs]

deltabravo wrote:
I am fobless. My old school truck still doesn't have enough miles to warrant replacing it with one that has the new-fangled keyless start nonsense.

The truck might hit 75k miles this year.

'

Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

1) are much larger than a fob with a key
2) ends up in my pocket when driving instead of in the key slot
3) are more expensive to replace
4) no way to just have a spare Key

And after all that, don't seem to have any real advantage. yes the car unlocks when I walk up to it but that doesn't require keyless go, About the only advantage is that it's almost impossible to accidentally lock the key in the car.

At least one hybrid mfg have gotten smart, On our keyless go hybrid if the car is in electric mode with the engine off if you open the drivers door w/o turning the car off (keyless go) the engine comes on as a warning that you haven't turned the car off.

[deltabravo]

I am fobless. My old school truck still doesn't have enough miles to warrant replacing it with one that has the new-fangled keyless start nonsense.

The truck might hit 75k miles this year.

[azdryheat]

I didn't read all the previous pages but for me I'm not going to change my FOB use. I have excellent insurance to replace anything stolen. In fact I'm glad I don't use keys anymore.

Back in the 90's, here in Tucson, we were having many auto thefts committed by hoods who had master keys. You see, with all the cars made in Mexico some of the people down there somehow got ahold of the master keys from the factory. They'd then come up to Tucson and look for cars the master key might fit. They trolled the shopping malls and were pretty successful stealing our cars. We had an undercover detail that caught many of the thieves and soon the problem went away.

Actually it's no different with RV's. Myself, my co-workers, and pretty much every RV worker in the country all have access to master keys to pretty much every RV out there. Except Airstream trailers, they do not have master keys. But not to be alarmed, our keys do not work the deadbolts.

[GoinThisAway]

Interesting discussion. I've been driving through the entire key-to-keyFOB-to-keylessFOB evolution. In most auto thefts around here the vehicle is unlocked and oftentimes the "key" has been left in the car. For me its automatic to lock my car and take the "key" with me. Have wondered about the possibility of someone intercepting and using the signal from the keylessFOB for my car. These kind of discussions are good as they get one thinking and asking questions. There's a wide range of technology out there and misconceptions mixed with good info so its good to hash it all out, hopefully cordially. In the end, it's probably worthwhile to talk to a reputable local expert on your particular vehicle.

One additional story on a personalized auto theft prevention device. I owned a station wagon on which the wiring to the fuel pump, located in the rear, went bad. I never needed the rear windshield wiper so Dad rerouted that wire to the fuel pump. I thought it was neat to as this also served as an anti-theft device. All I had to do was turn off the rear wiper when I parked the car. If someone broke in, hot-wired it, and tried to drive off they wouldn't get far before it died and they were sure to then abandon the "piece of junk". Of course I forgot to turn the "rear wiper" on one time and found out exactly how far a thief would get 😄

[Grit_dog]

^And that’s why…..insurance.
Aside from that, if one has to go through life fretting about breakins, robbery and auto theft? Move or keep up the insurance.
I’m 10x more worried about my ‘74 Jeep (although it has a 4 speed built in anti theft deterrent) and if I’m really sketched, I just pull the manual choke out, and 86 GMC.
Once the GMC is finished and being driven regularly to places it is more likely to get stolen, I’ll wire up a kill switch that is unconventional and not one of the commonly mentioned ones. It’ll be simple, easy, and completely inconspicuous.