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Onan Generator Hunts Under Load

WingsFan1313
Explorer
Explorer
Hey folks! I wanted to first offer my thanks for those of you who answered my previous post. For those of you who don't know the backstory, I bought my first motorhome (2002 Fleetwood Tioga 24d) last month. As I am not very mechanically inclined, your help has been instrumental in my getting this far; when I brought it home, the generator would not start at all and you folks got me through that, so I thank you!

Here's where I'm at now, and it has a couple of us puzzled, so I figured I would reach out to you. I'll list all the known scenarios below. The generator is an Onan 4000 Microlite KY series.

- When I run the generator with no load, on first start-up, it runs well for 15 minutes or so. Voltage tests out within spec (127 +/- 4.5). After 15 minutes with no load, it starts to sag a bit (120-125 volts).

- The generator hunts with a heavy load on it (A/C or Microwave). This happens within 2 seconds of my turning either of those items on.

- If the generator starts to hunt, and I turn off the A/C or microwave, the generator continues to hunt -- it does not go back to normal no-load operation.

- If I turn the generator off and immediately back on, 7 times out of 10, it will come back to normal no-load operation. The other 3 times, it will continue to hunt.

- I ran Seafoam/Gas mix through the generator today to clean out all the valves, nooks, and crannies. While hooked up to the external can, the generator ran with no noticeable drops with no-load (I didn't try to put a load on it while running the cleaning). It was probably the best it ever sounded. When I hooked it up to main gas, it ran as above -- well for about 5 minutes and then I could hear the tone of the generator come down a bit.

Things I have done/tried (in this order):

- Filled the main gas tank with fresh gas.
- Checked the genset engine oil
- Replaced carburetor (got the generator running -- originally wouldn't start)
- Replaced fuel filter
- Replaced air filter
- Replaced spark plug
- Ran a hose to a can of Seafoam and gasoline to clean system
- Replaced fuel line from onboard gas tank to fuel filter

I also looked into the governor issue that many people have been talking about and downloaded the service manual to properly adjust it (within my limits -- I don't have a load bank to adequately test it). The issue is -- I can't get the generator to *not* hunt long enough to make adjustments to the sensitivity screw, and once it starts hunting, no manual adjustments bring it back to normal.

I'm stumped. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance! ๐Ÿ™‚
13 REPLIES 13

Wes_Tausend
Explorer
Explorer
wa8yxm wrote:
Hunting on a governerned engine is NORMALLY a fuel/air ratio issue. As i recall running rich. The Carb has two fuel metering adjustements one is for no or very light load (Idle or low speed adjustment on a car engine) the other is loaded (RUNNING or high speed) Just for the fun I googled Onan Carb adjustments and...

https://itstillruns.com/adjust-carburetor-onan-28-generator-8023075.html


Great link wa8yxm, Thanks.

Other than a misadjusted governor, I can't think of any other reason that a carbureted gas engine hunts other than running too lean, with or without a governor. The governor makes it worse if anything.

I think Cummins is between a rock and a hard place in their recommendations servicing these quieter enclosed generators, because they have to offer only an EPA approved remedy for the least of carb problems to make legally the sale. Otherwise any maladjustment immediately nullifies the rating. Since the engine has to also meet California requirements, they all do, no matter where sold.

In that context, manufacturer advice generally turns out to be an expensive new, pre-set carb that should be professionally installed/adjusted and to treat an entire 55 gallon fuel tank with anything that might help. IMO, the real solution for Cummins is to either fuel inject the engine (preferred) or run a timed cool-down fan after shutdown... to save baking the enclosed carb.

Also see Onan Microquiet 4000 Surge Fix @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph_C6XF2TCU . That I could determine, this Jeff Berry produced the only detailed, actually useful YouTube video for fixing the surging issue on the Onan.

Wes
Days spent camping are not subtracted from one's total.
- 2019 Leprechaun 311FS Class C
- Linda, Wes and Quincy the Standard Brown Poodle

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
Hunting on a governerned engine is NORMALLY a fuel/air ratio issue. As i recall running rich. The Carb has two fuel metering adjustements one is for no or very light load (Idle or low speed adjustment on a car engine) the other is loaded (RUNNING or high speed) Just for the fun I googled Onan Carb adjustments and...

https://itstillruns.com/adjust-carburetor-onan-28-generator-8023075.html
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
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Wes_Tausend
Explorer
Explorer
...

Usually the only reason a generator engine hunts under load (or any other time) is because it is running lean; in this Onan 4000 case the carb is clogged with dried fuel residue. Whatever you do, don't just start adjusting things. Adjustments seldom change and if you leave them alone, they will still be correct as soon the carb is cleaned. If the $3-400 carb is replaced, well then every lousy adjustment surely needs to be rechecked anyway, not only incredibly expensive, but an unnecessary labor nuisance as well. See the end for simply cleaning these units.

There is a long story behind why this specifically occurs and it is not because of ethanol, or anything like that. If these small engines (generators, yard equipment etc) were designed a little differently, they would run as reliably as our car and truck engines. The fuel is fine. This seems to be a point even Onan missed by some remarks I've seen in their literature about recommending exotic fuel treatments to cure a simple chronic carb problem.

Since these engines don't normally idle (they run at 3600 rpm, I think), they don't have but one jet that handles medium to full throttle to maintain precise rpm under varying loads.

That jet is controlled by a main needle that has an obvious black knob normally marked for altitude. Since almost all engines are now designed to run lean and clean, the altitude knob limited adjustment is needed to pass all EPA and allow the gen engine to be set to altitudes from sea level to over 10k feet. Not like our now common fuel injected stuff which is automatic.

To clean this carb does not require removing the entire carb; it requires that one remove the float bowl. To do that, first unplug and unscrew the ground of the anti-leak solenoid wire that leads to the bowl bottom so you don't twist it off. (FYI, this wire is there to shut the fuel off in case of a leaky float needle. Our application doesn't need this feature since we only pump the fuel up to the gen. Other remote Onan applications may use a gravity fuel feed, so everybody gets this useless (to us) feature.) When the wire is disconnected, remove the brass hex nut from the bottom of the bowl along with the solenoid assembly, taking care not to twist the darn expensive solenoid wire. Don't lose any gasket washers. There are three.

After one removes the float bowl, they can blow the jet out with an ordinary cheap spray can of carb cleaner that you can buy at auto stores (Walmart etc). You have to spray backwards from inside the bowl, against the needle tip hole. Watch your eyes for splash since the bowl and holes will direct spray back at you. Keep it off paint too. You may be able to unscrew the needle entirely from the carb by prying the knob adjustment stop off, although I've heard of folks breaking the tamper-resistant plastic knob, so take care. If you forget where the needle was set, it will start when 1 1/2 turns out, but better to get it exact.

Noting the exact position of the plastic part, I removed the plastic EPA stop and unscrewed the needle entirely which allows much better cleaning access. In the future I should be able to remove the needle this way without disassembling the bowl which will save considerable time because of that confounded solenoid wire.

My generator seemed to have clogged in my driveway up right after 20 days of non-use even though I've gone several months in the past without "exercising it" (to keep fresh fuel in the bowl). Fresh fuel keeps the dried-up residue from forming. My guess is that mine actually clogged up the next day (or hour) after I used it because I didn't realize how sensitive these generators obviously are to heat soak. By heat soak, I mean that the carb is trapped inside the shroud which gets like an oven inside when no new cool air enters to flow past it. There is a lot of hot iron in these things after they've run awhile. Could probably cook a pizza.

Onan casually recommends running their generators a few minutes after use without load to cool them down. IOW, shut the AC off and run over 10 minutes before engine shutdown. I did do about 5, but that was apparently not long enough. It was a well over 103ยฐF day which was the reason I ran the AC. What I should have done after AC-off is run it longer with the gen access door closed normally, then opened the door and shut the gen down from outside the camper. AND I should have left the gen door wide open for 45 minutes while the stationary gen finished cooling off.

By not doing that, I'm suspicious the carb boiled all the fuel out in just a few minutes since it was like leaving it in a closed hot oven right after baked cookies have come out. Gasoline boils at as low a temperature as 100ยฐF, depending on winter-summer formulation. The carb could just as well have sat for a year drying out... and here I accelerated the detrimental process down to a few minutes.

My guess is that is a large part of the problem that many Onan plagued owners suffer from... a bad last shut-down. Someday I plan to actually check the cool-down curve with a pointed meat thermometer stuck through the bristle seal.

Wes
Days spent camping are not subtracted from one's total.
- 2019 Leprechaun 311FS Class C
- Linda, Wes and Quincy the Standard Brown Poodle

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
You can buy those Champion spark plugs anywhere for about $3.00. Better yet, use NGK BPR4ES since the Champions are now made in Mexico and are very low quality.

Kpackpackkelley
Explorer II
Explorer II
Need to know the color of the plug to see if itโ€™s fouling. Wish I was closer itโ€™s to hard trying to help over the net.

WingsFan1313
Explorer
Explorer
Kpackpackkelley wrote:
Do you have the service manual ? Those choke rods come loose pretty easy so it will make it run rich. What does the spark plug look like ?


Yes. I have the service manual. I will look into the choke rods to see if they are loose. Also the spark plug is a Cummins 1670275 Onan Spark Plug (found here.)

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
Apparently it never ran for you on the original carburetor so you replaced it with what? I suggest that you disassemble the current, or both, carburetors and clean them properly. You could have introduced dirt into the current carburetor at installation. And please toss the snake oil and use only gasoline.

Kpackpackkelley
Explorer II
Explorer II
Do you have the service manual ? Those choke rods come loose pretty easy so it will make it run rich. What does the spark plug look like ?

WingsFan1313
Explorer
Explorer
Thank you for all of your replies -- the wind died down so I went outside and disconnected the main fuel tank to run it with the external can (with the Seafoam still in it). I let it run for a few minutes and then tried the A/C. It immediately started hunting again, so I think we can rule out stale gas in the main tank.

So while the AC was running and the generator was hunting, I tried turning the sensitivity down... literally all the way until the screw wouldn't turn anymore. The good news is that the hunting slowed... to the point where the A/C didn't panic and shut down. The bad news is that it still hunts... and now it seems to hunt on no-load start-up.

As I said, I am not very mechanically inclined, so trying to read the service manual to adjust the governor doesn't seem to help me figure it out. As I understand it, there are two screws that I need to worry about -- the speed adjustment screw (to dial in a no-load voltage within tolerance) and then the sensitivity screw on the governor arm (to dial in the correct frequency/voltage with a load on it). Maybe someone on here can explain it better than I can understand it through the manuals? Or maybe someone knows of a video on how to adjust these properly? I have scoured the internet and can't find a tutorial on how to adjust these correctly.

Thanks for your help! ๐Ÿ™‚

dedmiston
Moderator
Moderator
lightfoot wrote:
If the gen runs normally when not connected to the onboard fuel tank, I bet there is a problem with the vent on the onboard tank. try removing the fuel cap and see what happens. that seems to be the only thing you have not tried.


I was going to say the same thing. Is it possible that it's starving? Crack your fuel cap and see if the fuel flows more freely.

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lightfoot
Explorer III
Explorer III
If the gen runs normally when not connected to the onboard fuel tank, I bet there is a problem with the vent on the onboard tank. try removing the fuel cap and see what happens. that seems to be the only thing you have not tried.
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STBRetired
Explorer
Explorer
There are separate fuel pumps. The vehicle and the generator each have their own. If you suspect a fuel issue, try running with a load when using the external fuel can. I don't think the fuel is at fault. When you replaced the carburetor, did you make sure the linkages and springs all ended up in the correct holes? I seems like the governor is making too big of an adjustment and once it starts oscillating it can't stop. Try turning the sensitivity down before the next load test.
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DownTheAvenue
Explorer
Explorer
Since it apparently runs good when connected the external fuel supply, I would look towards the on board fuel source. Perhaps stale gas, even though you added new gas that may not be enough. Maybe a fuel pressure issue with the on board supple. I think the intank pump serves both the generator and the vehicle, and if I am correct, perhaps it is weak.