Scotty I need more power!

[msmith1199]

After a recent extended trip without hookups, and a lot of research, I decided I need more battery capacity! But I have no room for another battery. About two years ago I bought two Battle Born 100 AH Lipo4 batteries. I downsized my motorhome to a smaller Class C and there isn’t room in the battery compartment and no nearby location to put another. But BattleBorn does make 270ah battery that will fit in the existing compartment. If I was buying now I’d definitely get that one over the two 100AH batteries. And I still may get it anyway. But it is $2400! I may go ahead and do it if I thought I could sell my two year old batteries. Is there a market for used LiPo4 batteries? I think I paid about $900 each for them and they are $950 each now. If I could get half that I’d pull the trigger and get the bigger battery.

[ktmrfs]

msmith1199 wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:
Ktmrfs, okay I do have the wizard button, but it was hidden behind a power cable the ran over it. I tried the manual boost mode and it didn’t appear to be going into boost. But the batteries were near fully charged so I’m thinking that may have something to do with it. So I left the batteries on with the fridge and some other stuff running and I’ll got back out this evening with the batteries run out and see if I can get the boost mode to work.

StirCrazy, it’s in LI mode and has been since I installed the LI batteries.

yes, little bitty button is somewhat hidden, and not well documented.

And if the battery is near full charge, yes it may go into boost mode but charging current won't change much or current will drop pretty rapidly. . At least on Lead Acid batteries.

Didn’t work. Got the batter down to 43% and tried everything with the wizard button and could only get 16amps going to the battery for the charge. I also only get 14.1 volts now out of the converter and it should be 14.6 voltes in the lithium mode. So I don’t think the converter is in lithium mode. I think the little switch got busted the first time I tried to use it because it’s so small. I had ran some trouble shooting things with the factory rep and he told me it sound to him like the switch broke in lithium mode, but now that I have the SmartShunt I’m not convinced of that. So I’m going to call them next week and discuss it. And, it looks to me like the 4560LI is much better suited to what I want anyway. And I can get that converter unit and swap it with the 4560 without having to swap everything else out. It’s just a plug and play. So I’ll take to them about that next week. It’s under $300 and if it works better, (sounds like it does) that’s worth it to me.

yes, it is not acting like a PD converter should behave. with the battery(s) at 40% on a 60A converter I'd expect you to get at least 40A, likely even more. The 16ish A is more like the unit in 13.6V output. I think once you get one that works as it should you'll find that a couple of hours will get you charged to 80+% charged.

[pianotuna]

msmith1199,

My older PD converter did 14 volts in boost into 875 amp-hours of lead acid. Before wizard it did 13.2

It did do 14 volts every 23 hours for 15 minutes.

[msmith1199]

ktmrfs wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:
Ktmrfs, okay I do have the wizard button, but it was hidden behind a power cable the ran over it. I tried the manual boost mode and it didn’t appear to be going into boost. But the batteries were near fully charged so I’m thinking that may have something to do with it. So I left the batteries on with the fridge and some other stuff running and I’ll got back out this evening with the batteries run out and see if I can get the boost mode to work.

StirCrazy, it’s in LI mode and has been since I installed the LI batteries.

yes, little bitty button is somewhat hidden, and not well documented.

And if the battery is near full charge, yes it may go into boost mode but charging current won't change much or current will drop pretty rapidly. . At least on Lead Acid batteries.

Didn’t work. Got the batter down to 43% and tried everything with the wizard button and could only get 16amps going to the battery for the charge. I also only get 14.1 volts now out of the converter and it should be 14.6 voltes in the lithium mode. So I don’t think the converter is in lithium mode. I think the little switch got busted the first time I tried to use it because it’s so small. I had ran some trouble shooting things with the factory rep and he told me it sound to him like the switch broke in lithium mode, but now that I have the SmartShunt I’m not convinced of that. So I’m going to call them next week and discuss it. And, it looks to me like the 4560LI is much better suited to what I want anyway. And I can get that converter unit and swap it with the 4560 without having to swap everything else out. It’s just a plug and play. So I’ll take to them about that next week. It’s under $300 and if it works better, (sounds like it does) that’s worth it to me.

[msmith1199]

pianotuna wrote:
msmith1199

From the downloadable manual.

PD4500LI - The full rated load is available for load, battery charging or both. When functioning as a regulated battery charger the converter has a nominal voltage output of 14.6 VDC. The system is designed to sense voltage on the battery and will taper the charging current as the battery becomes charged.

CAUTION

The 4500LI series converter/chargers are designed to recharge lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries only.

DO NOT USE TO RECHARGE LEAD/ACID BATTERIES!

Don’t have that inverter.

[ktmrfs]

msmith1199 wrote:
Ktmrfs, okay I do have the wizard button, but it was hidden behind a power cable the ran over it. I tried the manual boost mode and it didn’t appear to be going into boost. But the batteries were near fully charged so I’m thinking that may have something to do with it. So I left the batteries on with the fridge and some other stuff running and I’ll got back out this evening with the batteries run out and see if I can get the boost mode to work.

StirCrazy, it’s in LI mode and has been since I installed the LI batteries.

yes, little bitty button is somewhat hidden, and not well documented.

And if the battery is near full charge, yes it may go into boost mode but charging current won't change much or current will drop pretty rapidly. . At least on Lead Acid batteries.

[pianotuna]

msmith1199

From the downloadable manual.

PD4500LI - The full rated load is available for load, battery charging or both. When functioning as a regulated battery charger the converter has a nominal voltage output of 14.6 VDC. The system is designed to sense voltage on the battery and will taper the charging current as the battery becomes charged.

CAUTION

The 4500LI series converter/chargers are designed to recharge lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries only.

DO NOT USE TO RECHARGE LEAD/ACID BATTERIES!

[msmith1199]

Ktmrfs, okay I do have the wizard button, but it was hidden behind a power cable the ran over it. I tried the manual boost mode and it didn’t appear to be going into boost. But the batteries were near fully charged so I’m thinking that may have something to do with it. So I left the batteries on with the fridge and some other stuff running and I’ll got back out this evening with the batteries run out and see if I can get the boost mode to work.

StirCrazy, it’s in LI mode and has been since I installed the LI batteries.

[Grit_dog]

pianotuna wrote:
https://ca.renogy.com/12v-100ah-smart-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-self-heating-function/?Rng_ad...

Of interest to those who have the funds.

??
OP already has 2 100ah LiFe batteries he’s planning on hocking on the Gregslist…why would he want another one?

[pianotuna]

https://ca.renogy.com/12v-100ah-smart-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-self-heating-function/?Rng_ad...

Of interest to those who have the funds.

[StirCrazy]

Grit dog wrote:
OPs camper is only 2 years old. Maybe I misread something a couple years ago when I was gonna can the Wfco for a PD. Canned the whole camper instead….
But I thought all newer PD converters came pre-loaded with the Charge Wizard? Although not having the CW doesn’t prevent bulk charging, it actually controls the finer end of things at the top of the charging cycle and battery maintenance charging.
Maybe it’s just not playing nice with the BMSsses in the BB batteries?
Sorry option 11 just presented.

the 9200 series that had charge wizard built in so no pendent and manual control of the wizard now, where as the old pendant you could use the charge wizard to force it into bulk

if your 4500 series is a newer one it will have a LI mode that you can switch with a physical switch on the power center. this is from the manual.

"DC SECTION FEATURES
The optional OUTPUT MODE SWITCH sets the converter output to either a constant 14.6VDC with the Charge Wizard® disabled
(switch in ‘LI’ position) or a nominal 13.6VDC with full Charge Wizard®
function (switch in ‘LA’ position). ‘LI’ mode is intended
for use with lithium batteries with a BMS requiring a constant converter output. ‘LA’ mode is intended for use with lead/acid
batteries where the Charge Wizard® will optimize battery charging. "

it is a little two position switch just above the wizard manual button. so you have to take the cover off so you can see the boards.

[msmith1199]

Okay, well after doing some more research, I think my unit may be capable of the manual boost mode. The instruction manual isn’t really clear in explaining it, but now that I know what it is I think I have it. So I’ll run back out to my motorhome today and give it a try. If correct, then that solves my problem as I can use the boost mode with the generator to get the power back without changing anything. Thanks for that info.

[msmith1199]

Mine is the regular 4560 with the Lithium switch for use with lithium batteries. I think the 4560LI is only for Lithium batteries and doesn’t function with other types. I’ll have to check and see if I can replace mine with the 4560LI assuming it has this feature. This would solve my problem as it’s something you would only use with the generator so cut the generator run time.

[ktmrfs]

msmith1199 wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:
It’s a progressive dynamics 4560. I have not run the batteries dead yet and it’s only been a few days. I was getting 17 amps to the batteries when they were showing 53% full. Today they were under 50% and the Shunt showed 22 amps. So I don’t know what the max is. I do know if I started turning items on in the motorhome that used battery power, the amps going to charge the batteries would drop a little.

This sounds odd to me. But maybe lithium charge rates are different.

However, my guess is it isn't going into bulk mode charging automatically. If it is the unit I believe it is, there is a small red button in the converter box. push it to force into bulk mode charging. Then it should jump to 40+A.
while it says "not recomended" to mess with the mode, I've found it often usefull to force the charger into boost mode on partially charged battery and it will drop out when it reaches full charge.

Here is info from the manual

"

The Charge Wizard Operation While the built-in Charge Wizard automatically determines which operating mode is best suited to recharge or maintain optimum battery condition, the Wizard Mode Button allows for manual override and has an indicator light to indicate the mode of operation. NOTE: The Green LED on the left refers to the Charge Wizard - the Red LED on the right is for the Charge Sentinel (optionally available) Light “ON” – Indicates the converter is in the Boost Mode and the output voltage is 14.4 VDC to rapidly recharge the battery up to 90% of full charge. Light Blinks Rapidly (every 2-3 seconds) – Indicates the converter is in the Normal Mode and the output voltage is 13.6VDC. In this mode the converter is safely completing the charge of the battery. Light Blinks Slowly (every 5-6 seconds) – Indicates the unit is in the Storage Mode and the output voltage has been lowered to 13.2VDC. In this mode the RV battery is fully charged and the converter is maintaining the charge. MANUAL BUTTON. The manual button has been provided to allow the operator to manually override the converter (not recommended) and to verify the converter is operating properly. For manual operation, Press and Hold the button. The indicator light will soon remain “ON” indicating Boost Mode. Continue to hold the button and the light will blink rapidly indicating the converter is in the Normal Mode. Continue to hold the button until the light blinks slowly indicating the converter is now in the Storage Mode. After th

On a pair of GC2 that are at 50% my PD50A charger will start at 45-50A charge current and hold that fill the batteries are around 70% then start to drop. It doesn't drop to 20A till it's near 90%.

I think you got this from the PD 4600 series manual. Mine is a
4500 series and I don’t believe has this mode available.

it is from a 4560 manual but likely for a lead acid charger. Don't know if the Lithium 4560 has this mode available or not. Take a look at the manual for your specific unit.

[msmith1199]

StirCrazy wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:
It’s a progressive dynamics 4560. I have not run the batteries dead yet and it’s only been a few days. I was getting 17 amps to the batteries when they were showing 53% full. Today they were under 50% and the Shunt showed 22 amps. So I don’t know what the max is. I do know if I started turning items on in the motorhome that used battery power, the amps going to charge the batteries would drop a little.

do you have other 12V things running in the rv while you're doing this?

The 60amp output is shared between everything being powered. so, if you have 20 amps of other things takin g power only 40 will be available for charging. Also, what voltage are you seeing with the amps going to the batteries? If you are seeing 13.0V then 50% is the most you will ever get the batteries to charge to.

Steve

No, nothing else was running. In fact I even turned the battery switch off and found that the converter is still charging the battery with the batter switch off.