cancel
Showing results forย 
Search instead forย 
Did you mean:ย 

Something for the Dodge Boys!

Dave_H_M
Explorer II
Explorer II
Read what I saw on the allis chalmers forum about fram oil filters. I am impartial, just passing gas, or facts?

On Friday, I attended a Chrysler/Cummins training session for Base mechanical required by Chrysler in order for my shop to be able to get warranty claims reimbursed. One of the topics from the instructor was how do we determine engine failures and is it warranty or customer pay. It seems that when Dodge first started using Cummins engines, there were 100's of failures caused by a plugged saddle jet (piston oil cooling jet). It was always #6 cyl. Chrysler was demanding the failed engines to be sent back with the oil and filter still in the engine. They tore into the engine and each time they found a piece of paper clogging the saddle jet. They they'd cut open the Fram filter and find it was missing a piece of paper that exactly matched the piece clogging the jet. After a few instances of this, Chrysler would call Fram to participate in the engine teardown, find the paper, open the filter, then demand Fram pay the warranty claim. The instructor's exact words were 100's of failed engines were paid for by Fram. Fram refused to acknowledge their filter quality was poor and would not recall any of the substandard filters. In fact all they did do was put a note in their catalog DO NOT USE THIS FILTER ON A DODGE CUMMINS DIESEL. They did redesign the filter and they stopped causing engine failures. When the 5.9 was replaced with the 6.7, the same situation reoccured. With more horsepower/torque, larger J jets are used to cool the pistons. The Fram filter would loose a piece of paper and it would end up in the rear of the main galley, blocking the J jet. No oil spray to the under side of the piston would cause it to overheat, score the cylinder, loose compression, and cause a knock. Same thing with Fram again. They reimbursed Chrysler for failed engines, wouldn't recall the poor filters, just redesigned them and put the warning message in their catalog again. There is no way to tell the redesigned filter from the poor filters. With no visible change to the can and same number, it's a 50/50 chance you have a filter that meets requirements. It's about $15K for a new 6.7 engine in your truck. Is saving a couple bucks on a filter worth the risk?
I can say this, if I were looking at a truck, or anything else diesel powered and it had a Fram filter on it, there's no way I'd buy it. I say diesel and not just Cummins because on Thursday I replaced a 7.3 Powerstroke that had no compression on #5 and just 122K on the odometer. It too had a Fram filter on it, which I will be cutting open this week... :h
16 REPLIES 16

randallb
Explorer
Explorer
tin,
The aftermarket filter was not retaining any residual oil pressure. It is not uncommon that the check valve in an aftermarket filter does not meet factory specifications. I have seen cases where the aftermarket filter manufacturer sees that the canister size is the same, the threads are the same, so the filter must be the same. Unfortunately later engines are much more sensitive to residual oil pressure because of reduced clearances in some areas, increased clearances in the rods and mains and lighter oils. All of these changes are made to "free up" the engine in the search for better fuel mileage.
Randy

timmac
Explorer
Explorer
This thread is more correct than just the 1st post, my 04 Jeep Wrangler had a strange starting noise when 1st started cold, sounded like a rod, was told to use the factory oil filter only, so I removed the FRAM oil filter and installed a Mopar oil filter and the noise went away, strange but true..

thomasgunnar
Explorer
Explorer
RAS43 wrote:
thomasgunnar wrote:
Not really a Dodge question but a question. Does Fram make any of their filters? I own a Ford with the 6.0. The filters that should be used are Racor, Motorcraft and wait for it Fram. It seems that the filter I use is made for Fram by Racor. The patent numbers on the filters are the same.


Raycor did make the Fram filter for the 6.0l and it was a good filter. However, that has now changed and the filter is different. I would not use it!


The last time I bought them they had lower and higher grade the higher was still a Racor. The lower grade was different and much lower quality. I have a very good parts person. She brought in 3 different brands. All different.
Chris
2003 F350 CC,4x4,6.0,Zoodad, 3 Pod Pillar Gauges, Sinister Coolant Filter, Scangauge II, Blue Spring Kit
2006 Jayco Eagle 301RLS 33'

RAS43
Explorer III
Explorer III
thomasgunnar wrote:
Not really a Dodge question but a question. Does Fram make any of their filters? I own a Ford with the 6.0. The filters that should be used are Racor, Motorcraft and wait for it Fram. It seems that the filter I use is made for Fram by Racor. The patent numbers on the filters are the same.


Raycor did make the Fram filter for the 6.0l and it was a good filter. However, that has now changed and the filter is different. I would not use it!

NinerBikes
Explorer
Explorer
Fram is legendary in automotive circles for making poorly constructed oil filters. As is Valvoline for making crummy motor oil. A Valvoline employee I met at a car GTG once told me that there is no way he'd run his own product in any of his own equipment.

Campfire_Time
Explorer
Explorer
Faulty Fram filters are not limited to diesels or Dodge. I almost lost an engine in a car once. I used a Fram filter that blew apart and clogged the oil cooler, which in turn dried out the valve train. We were able to bring it back to life, but that was the last Fram filter I ever bought.
Chuck D.
โ€œAdventure is just bad planning.โ€ - Roald Amundsen
2013 Jayco X20E Hybrid
2016 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab Z71 LTZ2
2008 GMC Sierra SLE1 Crew Cab Z71 (traded)

jmtandem
Explorer II
Explorer II
Old old news that happened in the '03/'04 era when Cummins went with the new HPCR engines with oil spray cooled pistons.


Maybe I am wrong but I always thought my 91.5 (with intercooler) had pistons cooled by spray nozzles from the bottom. I did not realize it was until much later.
'05 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually 3500 white quadcab auto long bed.

JIMNLIN
Explorer
Explorer
Old old news that happened in the '03/'04 era when Cummins went with the new HPCR engines with oil spray cooled pistons.

Cummnins issued service bulletins and advisories not to use the Fram filter after "ONE" engine was sent to them and found with #6 piston cooling jet plugged up. From that bulletin the story grew to dozens which even Cummins and Fram denied.

Fram changed the plastic material used in the filter. The new Fram has the same number but with the letter "A". That was in '04 and no issues since ... according to Cummins anyway.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

thomasgunnar
Explorer
Explorer
Not really a Dodge question but a question. Does Fram make any of their filters? I own a Ford with the 6.0. The filters that should be used are Racor, Motorcraft and wait for it Fram. It seems that the filter I use is made for Fram by Racor. The patent numbers on the filters are the same.
Chris
2003 F350 CC,4x4,6.0,Zoodad, 3 Pod Pillar Gauges, Sinister Coolant Filter, Scangauge II, Blue Spring Kit
2006 Jayco Eagle 301RLS 33'

jmtandem
Explorer II
Explorer II
Also, be careful with NAPA fuel filters. For some reason they don't seem to fit well in the canister for the Cummins.
'05 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually 3500 white quadcab auto long bed.

ScottG
Nomad
Nomad
The "Mopar" filter is also a rebadged FG.

bdosborn
Explorer
Explorer


All Fleetguard, all the time...

Bruce
2010 6.5'X11' TTT - Boxcar
Custom Frame, Poptop, AC, Espar Diesel Furnace, HW Heater, Sink, Shower, 12V-120V, LED Lights, TV and XM Radio, DVD Player, 300W PV Panels, PD 9140 Charger, Tongue Box, Filon Exterior, 1000W Generator, Patient Wife
Boxcar Build

trop-a-cal
Explorer
Explorer
History of Dodge boys: They started out making engines for Henry Ford. He always said you can have any color car you want as long as it's Black. After deciding to go out on there own, the Dodge boys made a better car and painted it green. That was the easiest way to tell a Dodge, as it was better built and green to boot. They then got contracts from the US Army for vehicles and the Power Wagon was born. They were brothers one mechanical and one a great business person.

jmtandem
Explorer II
Explorer II
This problem has been known about for many years. If the guy servicing your Cummins tries to use a Fram filter, RUN!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The TDR has discussed this at length. Use Mopar or Cummins Fleetguard filters. They are about $15.
'05 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually 3500 white quadcab auto long bed.