Could have killed us:
We had Monroe shock absorbers installed on our TT care of our dealer when we got it new in April of 2014. The dealer insisted they take care of it so they sent it down the street to a suspension shop.
I handed over the shocks, lower mounting brackets, bolts and flat bar for the upper mounting brackets. All they had to do was the install and some welding. I made up a very detailed drawing showing EXACTLY how I wanted it installed. I showed the upper brackets to have 45 degree chamfers for max. weld penetration onto the beam surfaces. Seems like they totally ignored the drawing. With out going into a lot of details, they really botched the work and I went back TWICE again to try and get it taken care of but they refused in the end. The dealer (who we paid directly for the work) refused to have anything to do with it. So from the beginning I was NOT happy.
We just finished a 2500 mile trip through the Oregon Cascades from the Or/Wa border south into Ca. and on into Reno. Drove on a lot of highway sections with many twists and turns at speeds up to 60-65 mph. Numerous sheer drop-offs on one side too. Many downhill runs at up to 9% grade often with corners at the bottom to get around. A blowout on a tire could have been potentially deadly if it happened at 60+ mph, on a steep downhill descent, round a corner. Add a sheer drop-off and it gives me chills.
Got back on Friday and today I was looking underneath to check that all was okay. It's not. The upper mount from one of the shocks came clear off the I-beam it was welded to (or supposed to be welded to) - photo 1. The shock was obviously flopping around as the flared edge at the bottom of the upper half of the shock tube was rubbing against the tire and cut a sharp groove in the tire. Tire is now history. Photo 2 shows how the bracket is supposed to be positioned. I had specified that the 3" x 3/16" plate be welded to the top and bottom flanges of the beam. I can only surmise this happened closer to home.
I also wonder if the shock did not stay in the upright position and was flopping around what might have happened. Or if a blowout happened and the shock was flying around whacking things. Maybe might have been a lot of damage from flying rubber and other debris.
In looking closer at the broken bracket (last photo), there is NO weld material at all on the flange of the I-beam. They just did a butt joint with a surface weld instead of a chamfer that I asked for. Two of the other brackets have failed lower welds and I assume the 4th is no good with close inspection and maybe some dye.
I just don't don't know what to say at this point. Just glad we made it home okay. I even made mention of the shop in a post in another thread yesterday about how bad they were.
Will be interesting to see what the dealer says. It has nothing to do with the manufacturer, KZ (we have a 2 year warranty). We paid the dealer for the work and they insisted on the particular shop. We did not hire the suspension shop. It's one of those things that could even end up in court I suppose. I am totally pi**ed. I could even have done this myself with my MIG welder and done a good job or I know a mobile welder that could have done it too.
Maybe I'll just take up flying a small plane instead of RV-ing. Safer, cheaper and less aggravation.
We had Monroe shock absorbers installed on our TT care of our dealer when we got it new in April of 2014. The dealer insisted they take care of it so they sent it down the street to a suspension shop.
I handed over the shocks, lower mounting brackets, bolts and flat bar for the upper mounting brackets. All they had to do was the install and some welding. I made up a very detailed drawing showing EXACTLY how I wanted it installed. I showed the upper brackets to have 45 degree chamfers for max. weld penetration onto the beam surfaces. Seems like they totally ignored the drawing. With out going into a lot of details, they really botched the work and I went back TWICE again to try and get it taken care of but they refused in the end. The dealer (who we paid directly for the work) refused to have anything to do with it. So from the beginning I was NOT happy.
We just finished a 2500 mile trip through the Oregon Cascades from the Or/Wa border south into Ca. and on into Reno. Drove on a lot of highway sections with many twists and turns at speeds up to 60-65 mph. Numerous sheer drop-offs on one side too. Many downhill runs at up to 9% grade often with corners at the bottom to get around. A blowout on a tire could have been potentially deadly if it happened at 60+ mph, on a steep downhill descent, round a corner. Add a sheer drop-off and it gives me chills.
Got back on Friday and today I was looking underneath to check that all was okay. It's not. The upper mount from one of the shocks came clear off the I-beam it was welded to (or supposed to be welded to) - photo 1. The shock was obviously flopping around as the flared edge at the bottom of the upper half of the shock tube was rubbing against the tire and cut a sharp groove in the tire. Tire is now history. Photo 2 shows how the bracket is supposed to be positioned. I had specified that the 3" x 3/16" plate be welded to the top and bottom flanges of the beam. I can only surmise this happened closer to home.
I also wonder if the shock did not stay in the upright position and was flopping around what might have happened. Or if a blowout happened and the shock was flying around whacking things. Maybe might have been a lot of damage from flying rubber and other debris.
In looking closer at the broken bracket (last photo), there is NO weld material at all on the flange of the I-beam. They just did a butt joint with a surface weld instead of a chamfer that I asked for. Two of the other brackets have failed lower welds and I assume the 4th is no good with close inspection and maybe some dye.
I just don't don't know what to say at this point. Just glad we made it home okay. I even made mention of the shop in a post in another thread yesterday about how bad they were.
Will be interesting to see what the dealer says. It has nothing to do with the manufacturer, KZ (we have a 2 year warranty). We paid the dealer for the work and they insisted on the particular shop. We did not hire the suspension shop. It's one of those things that could even end up in court I suppose. I am totally pi**ed. I could even have done this myself with my MIG welder and done a good job or I know a mobile welder that could have done it too.
Maybe I'll just take up flying a small plane instead of RV-ing. Safer, cheaper and less aggravation.
I think all Northwood frames have the shocks mounted outside of the frame. Certainly Outdoors RV's Northwood frames do. And I've heard of no problems with this type of installation, but they are designed that way with perhaps wider axles than an after-market install might have.
Here's a screen shot of the shock installation.
Here's a screen shot of the shock installation.
First fifth wheel had no shocks. Second one had shocks, were at such angle that they possibly could not work, they eventually bent. Present trailer has shocks. Couldnt tell the difference in any of e'm.
Huntindog wrote:
He is right and here is why.
With the shocks mounted way they are, it is impossible for the axles to twist in a tight turn as they should. You may as well have a solid piece of pipe bolted in there. You state that your axles don't twist like others because your springs and frame are so heavy duty. That is an incorrect assumption. The shock simply are not allowing it to happen. Those forces how ever are still there. looking for a weak link to act on. They found it when the welds broke. Stronger welds are not the solution. That will just cause something else to break.
With the wheels off, there is good access to where the brackets are so the welder should have been able to work in there just fine.
Shocks are made to dampen unwanted spring oscillation while allowing all normal desireable axle movement to occur.
I also have a sealed underbelly, and I have been thinking how I would install shocks inboard of the frame without cutting it.
I would get a 1/4" thick piece of angle iron, long enough to span the width of the frame rails. 1.5x1.5 should work fine. It needs to be bolted or welded to the bottom of the frame web. One end of the shock will be bolted to it. The other end will be bolted to the inboard side of the spring tie plate, using a premade bracket or fabing one up.
The key here is that the shock eyes should not be in line like they are now. The shock needs to be twisted so that the shock eyes are 90 degrees to one another. The shock also will not be straight up and down like it is now, but at an angle. (this orientation is common on autos) With it mounted this way, the shock will allow all normal desireable axle movement to occur without binding, while still doing its job dampening spring oscillation.
Look at your springs. Notice that one of the ends is bolted directly to the hanger. The other end to a shackle/equalizer.
This means that as the spring is compressed, the axle tube moves towards the equalizer. Take this into account when positioning the angle iron, IE the tube should move away from the angle iron as the spring compresses allowing more clearance between the tube and the angle.
The beauty of this design is that if the angle is bolted instead of welded that it can be removed if needed to service what ever it is blocking.
Below are two photos of the welding on the top of the upper bracket and a repost of welding on the bottom. (White mark in 1st pic is just sunlight.) The top part of the bracket was essentially unattached to the frame. The bottom of the bracket has barely any weld material attaching it to the frame. It's difficult to get good clear closeup shots but these should show enough of what the welding job is like. You can't really see in the photos, but the welds are porous too which is not good - contaminated from improper cleaning of metal or equipment issues. Welds are brittle as a result and destined to fail.
There simply is NO other reason that the bracket failed other than the extremely bad welding job. If it becomes an argument with our dealer, I will have a certified welder give an opinion. It's a wonder this bracket held up as long as it did. The other brackets have to be close to the same. If the brackets had been installed on the inboard of the frame, the bad welding would have held up okay?
Maybe you were talking about axle wrap? Which happens when you brake, and the harder you brake the more the axle wants to rotate along it's axis. I was thinking left/right motion of the wheels. There is also the movement of the ends of the springs (next to the Dexter equalizers) in a fore/aft direction. I don't see how inboard or outboard shock mounting is affected by either. The reason shocks are supposed to be mounted at an angle is to dampen the axle wrap and movement due to equalizers.
The Monroe shocks have a eyelet which bolts at 90 degrees to the axis of the shock plus it has a rubber grommet. The shock isn't type with a bolt pointing in the same axis as the shocks. I have not been able to find anything from Mor/Ryde, Mobile Outfitters, Joy Rider, Monroe or Dexter that states you should not or recommend against mounting on the outside of a frame. If you have a link from one of these companies showing where they should be installed, I'd be interested in seeing it. I think one reason they end up on the inside in most cases is that there is not enough room between tires and the frame.
In our case, mounting the shocks in the inside of the frame is not possible without major work to relocate the iron pipe LP gas line which is immediately next to the lower flange of the beam. Can't even see how this would be done - maybe pulling down the underbelly and relocating the pipe above it.
Will probably end up getting a top local frame & axle shop to look at and fix this. They're gov't certified and have a certified welder on staff. I wanted to go there in the first place but the dealer insisted on sending it next door.
