2012 Keystone Passport tire wear problem (with pics)....

[molardog]

Hi ryone....thought I'd ask everyone's opinions on this tire wear issue....back axle tires are balding on the inner tread stripe with approx 15k miles on them. Search function tells me this can result from overloading, not towing level, or alignment issues. Unsure as to which applies to our situation....aside from about the last 8k miles towing with 4 bike rack at rear of camper (I no longer run with them back there for various reasons)? Is it possible that the bikes caused enough overload to wear both back tires like this? See pics:

Dr side


Passenger side


Is the axle bent?


Tires are the PowerKing's that came with it new btw.

Do these tires still have useful life left? I am considering rotating the fronts to the back as a test to se if the wear happens again (now that we aren't carrying bikes on the back) vs just out right replacing them and risking premature wear on a brand new pair! Any suggestions/tips are much appreciated!

[Aluminum_Siding]

your axle is bent. I replaced mine with a new one for $175. I have a passport 2910. it only took me two hours to change the axle. I put on a new tire. it is now wearing perfect.

[Ivylog]

OP's :S... not sure why I ASSUMED you had a 5er as this post is in the TT section. YES 150 lbs on the back of a TT can take enough tongue weight off that the handling will suffer. The closest I ever came to loosing a trailer was when I loaded 200 lbs of parts in the back of a single axle Airstream (many years ago) and at 45 mph it almost took me to the scene of the accident. Back then you had to manually put on the trailer brakes which I did as I hit the gas. This stopped the sway an and then I was able to get off the gas and get stopped. Moved 100 lbs to the front and ever since I make sure I have plenty of tongue weight.
It's absurd how many trailer undercarriages are so close to the loaded weight for a savings of a couple hundred dollars.

[Tireman9]

Just looking at the tires I suggest they have too much Camber.

BUT

Are you also sure you have equal load split axle to axle when the TT is fully loaded? You cannot assume you have 50/50 between the two axles and you also cannot assume you have 50/50 split side to side on each axle. Data suggests that a good number of TT have something like a 45/55 axle to axle split PLUS a 45/55 side to side split highly possible if the RV has slides.
Only way to know is to get individual scale readings from RVSEF or similar or you can try and follow the instructions HERE.

[westend]

molardog wrote:

dadmomh wrote:
Looks a lot like the problem we had with our HTT. DH felt sure it was alignment and the dealer agreed. The problem came when the manufacturer of the axels said if it truly was alignment, they would replace, HOWEVER....the dealer would have to remove, do whatever was needed to ship to the factory, they would check them and IF they agreed it was alignment they would replace. Otherwise, we would be stuck with the bill to remove, ship, return ship, replace. Since our problem was only on 1 tire, DH said he'd just replace that tire more often than go through all that hassle and likely the manufacturer would say it was fine. Funny thing was that the dealer doing the work was the one the axel manufacturer recommended as their service source. Just not worth the gamble of having a huge bill and the trailer out of use for likely the whole summer.

I can understand that. For now, I am not too keen on someone monkeying with our axle if the problem was one of us overloading the rear end with those bikes.

The problem is that your axles should have been able to take the addition of the bikes (or any additional weight items) without causing the tire problems. You can decide how you want to handle things, of course, but if an axle catastrophically fails miles from home, you'll have wished for a replacement sooner.
I'd suggest that you at least get a quote for new axles from a frame shop and weigh that against the accelerated tire wear over the course of the next few years.

[molardog]

dadmomh wrote:
Looks a lot like the problem we had with our HTT. DH felt sure it was alignment and the dealer agreed. The problem came when the manufacturer of the axels said if it truly was alignment, they would replace, HOWEVER....the dealer would have to remove, do whatever was needed to ship to the factory, they would check them and IF they agreed it was alignment they would replace. Otherwise, we would be stuck with the bill to remove, ship, return ship, replace. Since our problem was only on 1 tire, DH said he'd just replace that tire more often than go through all that hassle and likely the manufacturer would say it was fine. Funny thing was that the dealer doing the work was the one the axel manufacturer recommended as their service source. Just not worth the gamble of having a huge bill and the trailer out of use for likely the whole summer.

I can understand that. For now, I am not too keen on someone monkeying with our axle if the problem was one of us overloading the rear end with those bikes.

[molardog]

Ivylog wrote:

molardog wrote:

Ivylog wrote:
Not sure about posters that do not know axles come with a upward bend in them. Assuming it's the outside of the left tire and inside of the right I'd check that the two axles are parallel.
Bikes on the back should not affect handling or tire wear.

Its the inside of both tires.

Having read your previous posts I'd say your axles are overloaded. I would weigh the rig... each axle if possible and compare to the weight rating of your axles. I would not settle for having to put four bikes on the front of your Burb as adding 150 lbs of hitch and bikes SHOULD NOT change the handling. Heck, I put two dual sport motorcycles on the back of my 5er and it did not change the handling.
If you cannot get the manufacture to put heaver axles under it I'd start by putting 1/2" more upward bow in the axle. Using a long straight edge measure how much now and then using a jack start raising up in small amounts and remeasure until you get 1/2". Yes, I've straighten and re arched axles and springs.
Since you are in GA somewhere, this ebay seller has good prices on axles if you decide to buy heavier axles.
If you are in northern GA there is a scale east of Blairsville that will let you weigh, even getting off to one side so you can weigh each side.

Thanks....but you may be surprised at just how much those bikes back there did affect the handling of our rig, especially if we had so much as a drop of water in the holding tanks behind the axle. The passport tracked completely different with them on the back. Did not like how fussy it was at all. Perhaps yours handled well owing to the 5er vs bumper pull?

[dadmomh]

Looks a lot like the problem we had with our HTT. DH felt sure it was alignment and the dealer agreed. The problem came when the manufacturer of the axels said if it truly was alignment, they would replace, HOWEVER....the dealer would have to remove, do whatever was needed to ship to the factory, they would check them and IF they agreed it was alignment they would replace. Otherwise, we would be stuck with the bill to remove, ship, return ship, replace. Since our problem was only on 1 tire, DH said he'd just replace that tire more often than go through all that hassle and likely the manufacturer would say it was fine. Funny thing was that the dealer doing the work was the one the axel manufacturer recommended as their service source. Just not worth the gamble of having a huge bill and the trailer out of use for likely the whole summer.

[molardog]

GaryWT wrote:

Ivylog wrote:
Not sure about posters that do not know axles come with a upward bend in them. Assuming it's the outside of the left tire and inside of the right I'd check that the two axles are parallel.
Bikes on the back should not affect handling or tire wear.

Wow maybe I am not a real camper either, not sure how I or anyone is to know axles come bent.

I stand by my thought that the axles are under sized.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions. It is so nice to know that manufacturers aren't overbuilding their campers isn't it?

Like JJ says though, I think it is easy to underestimate how much dynamic load is placed by something like a 150 rack and bikes bouncing and swaying on the running gear. Throw borderline axles into the mix and then things get even hairier.

For now, I have just rotated the tires front to back (and greased the axles while there). I will keep my spare tire close at hand and my eyes on those worn edges for now and see if the problem recurs on the newly rotated ones. I will also take it to a shop nearby to be looked at.

[GaryWT]

Ivylog wrote:
Not sure about posters that do not know axles come with a upward bend in them. Assuming it's the outside of the left tire and inside of the right I'd check that the two axles are parallel.
Bikes on the back should not affect handling or tire wear.

Wow maybe I am not a real camper either, not sure how I or anyone is to know axles come bent.

I stand by my thought that the axles are under sized.

[JJBIRISH]

Certainly with marginal axles overloading the rear of the trailer can wreak havoc on the running gear and the chassis… it not just the bikes bouncing, its the stress that the bouncing causes to the entire chassis and running gear…
Its just something no one here wants to accept…

The bow in the axle looks normal, but it hard to tell from a picture taken at a angle… have it checked at a truck alignment shop…

[MUDDYNOLL]

I had to replace my axels last year due to a bent rear axel caused by striking a bridge joint on I95. Only bent the left side though. Axels and springs only rated for 7,000 lbs. with Trailer GVWR 72,000 Lbs. because they subtract hitch weight when they calculate suspension requirements to keep costs down. My Trailer is a 2011 Passport 2910BH and weighed 6,900 lbs. on the scale loaded to go camping. Not over weight but very close to being maxed out. I replaced the sub par suspension with 5200 lb. axels and 2500 lb. springs. Rides and tows better and the front axel doesn't look like it's going to fold up underneath the camper when I make a turn. This was an expensive lesson learned. I will certainly be looking at what's underneath the next camper as well as what's inside before I buy the next one. Also Dexter was no help as I was 1 month out of warrantee.

[colliehauler]

ianmac23 wrote:
My Passport had 2.5in axles and when going around corners the axles would flex and it wore out the inside of my rear tires. Dexter told me that it should of had 3in axles and that would fix the issue. I did not gain load capacity just reliability. There was a communication issue between keystone and dexter and dexter is eating the cost of replacing the axles. Again I would call dexter and check to see if you qualify to get new axles.

This sounds like a good idea.

[ianmac23]

My Passport had 2.5in axles and when going around corners the axles would flex and it wore out the inside of my rear tires. Dexter told me that it should of had 3in axles and that would fix the issue. I did not gain load capacity just reliability. There was a communication issue between keystone and dexter and dexter is eating the cost of replacing the axles. Again I would call dexter and check to see if you qualify to get new axles.

[Ivylog]

molardog wrote:

Ivylog wrote:
Not sure about posters that do not know axles come with a upward bend in them. Assuming it's the outside of the left tire and inside of the right I'd check that the two axles are parallel.
Bikes on the back should not affect handling or tire wear.

Its the inside of both tires.

Having read your previous posts I'd say your axles are overloaded. I would weigh the rig... each axle if possible and compare to the weight rating of your axles. I would not settle for having to put four bikes on the front of your Burb as adding 150 lbs of hitch and bikes SHOULD NOT change the handling. Heck, I put two dual sport motorcycles on the back of my 5er and it did not change the handling.
If you cannot get the manufacture to put heaver axles under it I'd start by putting 1/2" more upward bow in the axle. Using a long straight edge measure how much now and then using a jack start raising up in small amounts and remeasure until you get 1/2". Yes, I've straighten and re arched axles and springs.
Since you are in GA somewhere, this ebay seller has good prices on axles if you decide to buy heavier axles.
If you are in northern GA there is a scale east of Blairsville that will let you weigh, even getting off to one side so you can weigh each side.