3/4 or 1 ton SUV ?

[nhshep]

Crazy question. We loved our Travel trailer. Weight 6,100 lbs. Length 28 foot. Towed it with Dodge Durango V8. Never had an issue towing. Recently moved to 5th wheel keeping it as seasonal for now. Do not like the idea buying open bed truck where we have no use for the open bed except to handle the hitch to tow the 5'er.

Would love to gone with a larger TT 10k or 12k lbs 34 ft. But would have to change to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. We have no use for open bed truck.

Why have they not made a 3/4 or 1 ton SUV. Is it lack of demand or an engineering issue. What is wrong with putting a larger engine inside an SUV to accommodate towing capacity and make it longer for wheel base. Give those who tow larger TT the inside SUV function when not towing (maybe 3 row seating like the Durango).

Putting a cap on a truck is not the same. It would not have doors and seats like a SUV. (No offense to those who have a truck with a cap).

There must be plenty of people who would love to have an SUV with more towing capacity so they are not limited to less than 10,000 lbs and forced to go with a 3/4 OR 1 Ton truck with open bed.

[Grit_dog]

RoyJ wrote:

I totally get what you're saying, and I personally would love a 3/4 ton, or even 1-ton class SUV. But I, and most on this board, are in the minority.

Let's say they built a killer 'Burb, on a modern 2500 chassis, 445hp non-neutered Duramax + 10 speed. Then let's say it sold well, 50,000 units a year. But...

25,000 out of those came from existing Silverado HD buyers, another 20,000 from Suburban 1500 buyers. Remember, these buyers brings NO PROFIT. So if GM is lucky, 5,000 new buyers would come from crossover buyers. But even that's unlikely, as they'll upgrade to a 1500 'Burb / Expedition first. Let's just say it happens, bunch of Explorer or Highlander buys suddenly wants a big truck.

How do we make enough profit from 5,000 units to offset the R&D cost?

VERY good point. And likely the biggest detractor for mfgs. And I said it myself. HD suv buyers will largely come from the other big/luxury vehicle markets with assumed similar profit levels.
On that note, maybe it doesn't make sense. It's not like if a person can't buy a HD SUV, they're going to get a Prius instead. They will buy a truck or 1/2 ton SUV.

[Grit_dog]

JAC1982 wrote:


Gritdog, all of this is cracking me up. Note the F350 Tremor in my signature. It's my husband's "grocery getter". He's hauled some tile in it for our basement remodel but that's about it. It could tow the camper if needed, but that's what the dually is for. My own vehicle is an Explorer ST 🙂 We like nice trucks/cars and have the money so why not. I should add that my neighborhood is full of super nice trucks and pricey SUV's (Expeditions, Yukons, Escalades). So clearly people are buying them.

Totally, and I agree with you 100%. The Tremors are really cool looking trucks too. And that's what it boils down to. He!!, the first few years sales of them would probably go mostly to the adventurous mall crawler types. Then get passed down to the group that needs to haul their brood and pull the new camper up the Ike.

I believe, if GM took a Burb or Ford an Expe Xl, put it on a 3/4 ton chassis, slapped some 35" BFG mudders, lift, "skid plates", and some I don't know, spend 15 minutes looking through a Jeep accessory catalog and make the parts full size, and call it the "TRAIL KING" or some dumb sht, there'd be a line down the block and around the corner Nut to Butt, yuppy, fake man-bun wearing, wanna be Overlander, soccer Dads slapping each other with their man purses to get ahead in line and buy one before they ran out.
Name the colors like Moab mist (blue), Seal Team Green, Missoula Mud Metallic and .50Cal Gray and half the guys would squirt in their pants just thinking about buying one!

GM should hire me for marketing.....lol.

[JAC1982]

Grit dog wrote:
For those that think “who can afford/buy a $80-90k suv?” Get over it. If it’s not for you, it’s not for you.
He!! I think GMC sells more Denali's than regular trucks anymore.
I can think of a half dozen guys, just in our circle of people that are driving diesel Denali’s and don’t haul anything other than their fat @ss to the office or a load of beauty bark for the flower beds.
Make em tough looking. Some rock slider looking running boards and a ladder on the rear barn door.
And offer a Denali type version for those that want a 1000ft lb Escalade.

They’ll sell. And at the same or higher profit margin than trucks.

I bet theyd sell 50,000 of them a year just in Texas!!

Gritdog, all of this is cracking me up. Note the F350 Tremor in my signature. It's my husband's "grocery getter". He's hauled some tile in it for our basement remodel but that's about it. It could tow the camper if needed, but that's what the dually is for. My own vehicle is an Explorer ST 🙂 We like nice trucks/cars and have the money so why not. I should add that my neighborhood is full of super nice trucks and pricey SUV's (Expeditions, Yukons, Escalades). So clearly people are buying them.

[BenK]

Grit...now you’ve got me going on ‘Fashion Statement Crowd’...

Loved it when the OEM’s coined SUV. Made perfect sense for what my off roaders were, but soon noticed more and more garbage out there in the boonies, ‘they’ were getting stuck in the stupidest ways and the biggie...when ordering my 1996 Suburban...found no more 4x4 floor shifter...no manual hubs...etc.

Bit the bullet and ordered it anyway thinking could make do and did. Miss ability to shift on the fly into or out of compound low...but with the ‘dash mounted 4x4 buttons’ had to be at a stand still.

Then owned a Suburban/Tahoe/SUV forum and is how I got here...a member asked for comments.

Fashion statement crowed drove me nuts with their questions and then the OEM’s protected themselves from these folks and the SUV’s became more station wagons for soccer mom’s than SUV’s...

Anyway, if the OP can deal with an older 3/4 TV, they are out there.

Look for the F60 option on 2500 Suburbans. That is a Snow Plow prep option (ordered mine for $68 bucks), which gets 1 ton front suspension torsion bars....and the rear axle is the same as the dually with the same GAWR of 6,000 lbs.

Why refer tongue on cheek to mine as a K3500 Suburban.

Folks are always asking if they could buy my Sub...no way !

[6door74]

Seon wrote:
I replaced my 2007 Yukon XL SLT 4x4 with a 2010 Ford E350 Van with 55k original miles to tow my 6K travel trailer. Really loved the Yukon but DW likes to bring lots and lots of "stuff" plus 3 dogs and their crates when camping so I needed the Van space to carry them.
The Van doesn't have the bells and whistle that the Yukon had but it's a tow vehicle and a Home Depot run.
Having the right tool for the job is what counts.

We got a 2006 E350 with the V10 as opposed to a pickup. A suburban 2500 or excursion were on the list but the price was so much more. As you said, plenty of uses when not towing and capable of towing a good amount. Win Win

[RoyJ]

Grit dog wrote:
For sure. 99% of the market would come from existing full-size truck and suv buyers. No doubt.
How to win over new buyers? Make something new that people want.
Offer a real diesel like Ford did for a few years, not the underpowered whiny 6.0 Vortec.
Offer something that people want to be seen in. Doesn’t take much. (My new work truck just because it has a 2” lift, mudders, decent looking wheels and some cool stickers and painted tow hooks has got more random complements in a week than my previous work truck which was essentially the same but not “off road.”)

Take the new Burb body, which looks killer btw, toss it on a HD chassis, give it a little lift and some bling and a 5” tailpipe that begets the fire breathing diesel under the hood and watch all the guys “justify” this for their wife’s next soccermobile that also pull their boat and camper 10x a year! Put a cool looking roof rack on it and offer an attachment for a hi lift jack and some rotopax jugs. People be mall crawlin in them just like the Jeep’s, in no time. Added benefit, those that have a real need for one now have their next family truckster tow rig back, which is what this thread was all about.
How many people “have to have” a big diesel truck that don’t need one? Answer? Most of them. Myself included.
How many wives want a fancy SUV to drive through the Starbucks in? Answer? Most of them. (Well, not the liberal ones....different topic).

I totally get what you're saying, and I personally would love a 3/4 ton, or even 1-ton class SUV. But I, and most on this board, are in the minority.

Let's say they built a killer 'Burb, on a modern 2500 chassis, 445hp non-neutered Duramax + 10 speed. Then let's say it sold well, 50,000 units a year. But...

25,000 out of those came from existing Silverado HD buyers, another 20,000 from Suburban 1500 buyers. Remember, these buyers brings NO PROFIT. So if GM is lucky, 5,000 new buyers would come from crossover buyers. But even that's unlikely, as they'll upgrade to a 1500 'Burb / Expedition first. Let's just say it happens, bunch of Explorer or Highlander buys suddenly wants a big truck.

How do we make enough profit from 5,000 units to offset the R&D cost?

[Grit_dog]

BenK wrote:


Fashion Statement Crowd drives SUV sales

"1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner..."

You didn't strike me as a fashion statement type person Mr. Ben!

Bud, around here anyway, Burbs like yours, but I'm sure not as well cared for and capable (I recall your posts about yours) are going for $10k or so!
I tried buying one last year as a winter beater before we got the Showdozer truck. Owner laughed at my offer and it was not up for sale much longer than than...

[BenK]

GM discontinued the 3500HD Suburban in 2019.

Too bad, but it didn't have much of a MTWR

Fashion Statement Crowd drives SUV sales and they have no clue as to the difference between a 1500 & 2500. Plus the misconception that the 2500 rides harsher...

[Grit_dog]

ktosv wrote:

Gator398 wrote:
Three years ago we pulled a 5x8 enclosed trailer with our 9 passenger 2012 GMC Savana explorer van, 3 adults and 4 kids and cargo trailer usually at about 3k lbs. We had brake rotors replaced every 3 trips or so, whenever the braking vibration would get unbearable.

If you think the 2005 Excursion was the last vehicle made for towing and hauling, you must not be aware that GM made the 3/4 ton Suburban through the 2013 MY and we all know the Suburbans actually had a higher payload than an Excursion, thus actually making it the better tow vehicle.

Agree, Gator had some unique "issues" with his van, but the general sentiment is the same. If you want basic bare bones transportation that can haul your best attempt at producing an entire soccer team from your own loins and get a trailer down the road, all at the lowest reasonable cost per mile for a vehicle, then a Van is your only option (and likely will continue to be because new SUVs are 'spensive).

But, "Suburbans actually had a higher payload than an Excursion, thus actually making it the better tow vehicle" is a pretty broad brush and almost wholly inaccurate statement.
Just because some people live and die by the almighty "door sticker" does not mean that they are right, nor does it a tow vehicle make.
One could go on for pages as to what makes a particular vehicle a better tow vehicle than another and the number of considerations (not including the highly variable considerations that come with comparing a 10-30 year old vehicle to a 15-20 year old vehicle) is lengthy.

For instance a 6.0 Powerstroke, torqshift Excursion will pull better than a 6.0 LS, 6L80E Suburban with the same gearing. The Burb will have better grade braking, but you can add an exhaust brake to a Stroke.
Torqshift trans is better than the 6L80, even lacking 1 forward gear comparatively.
Frame, chassis, axles, brakes, all the stuff that is germane to payload capability, (notice I didn't say rating, as thats just a math calculation that is really not even loosely based on the vehicle's actual capability when talking class 2 vehicles) are not even remotely taxed near their real world ratings or limits in a class 2 SUV configuration. So because the Explursion was a few lbs fatter than a Burb means basically nothing.

[ktosv]

Gator398 wrote:
Three years ago we pulled a 5x8 enclosed trailer with our 9 passenger 2012 GMC Savana explorer van, 3 adults and 4 kids and cargo trailer usually at about 3k lbs. We had brake rotors replaced every 3 trips or so, whenever the braking vibration would get unbearable. The 6.0 motor was good enough for this but would not be enough for a TT in tow, and I could not imagine what the wind blowing it around would feel like as that was pretty unbearable at times as well.. When the A/C in the van started blowing warm was the final straw and we will never go back to a motor crammed into a compartment again (that includes bus/Class A). Be smart and buy a tow vehicle with a real hood and built stout enough for pulling AND braking. The '05 Excursion is the last real option for passenger hauling +trailer, if you can get over the late 90's interior and features for what people selling them wish they were worth. Maybe, thanks to coronavirus and the resurrection of road travel mixed with the collapse of the cruise industry, we may finally see the return of the true HD diesel powered 3/4t and 1ton SUV, not the thing Nissan has right now that is a towing joke. I imagine if Ford (for example) makes a long wheel base 2022 Excursion-Max with 7.4L gas, they wouldn't be able to build them fast enough for all of the RV's out there being piddled along with terrible tow vehicles.

Did you buy your van used? How many miles were on it when you had all of these issues? It appears it was a conversion van, which could have added a ton of weight if it was a high top. Are you sure you had the 6.0L and not the 4.8L?

At 70k miles I still had the factory pads and rotors on our Express. It hauled my family of 7 and two dogs perfectly fine while towing a 33’ 7200# GVWR trailer. I CAT scaled it once and I was over15k pounds, but under the 16k GCWR. When traveling with our dogs and we would make a stop somewhere, we would leave it idling with the AC on for them, sometimes for over an hour if not two. It would be a meat locker when we came back to the van. I

If you think the 2005 Excursion was the last vehicle made for towing and hauling, you must not be aware that GM made the 3/4 ton Suburban through the 2013 MY and we all know the Suburbans actually had a higher payload than an Excursion, thus actually making it the better tow vehicle.

[Grit_dog]

For those that think “who can afford/buy a $80-90k suv?” Get over it. If it’s not for you, it’s not for you.
He!! I think GMC sells more Denali's than regular trucks anymore.
I can think of a half dozen guys, just in our circle of people that are driving diesel Denali’s and don’t haul anything other than their fat @ss to the office or a load of beauty bark for the flower beds.
Make em tough looking. Some rock slider looking running boards and a ladder on the rear barn door.
And offer a Denali type version for those that want a 1000ft lb Escalade.

They’ll sell. And at the same or higher profit margin than trucks.

I bet theyd sell 50,000 of them a year just in Texas!!

[Grit_dog]

RoyJ wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Personally they're not my thing. Id take a HD truck 10 times out of 9 for my use. But given the soaring sales of full size trucks and suvs, year by year it just seems strange that a HD suv platform wouldn't be successful once again. Considering, for 1 mfg, they would only need to steal less than 5% of the overall market share of current full size suvs and trucks to sell some comparable quantities to other vehicle models.

Like I was saying before, they're probably afraid of cannibalizing their own HD truck sales.

If someone truly needed a Suburban 2500 or Excursion, they would've already bought a 2500/F250. The only alternative would be a Suburban 1500 or Expedition EL, but that's still cannibalism.

How do they win over new buyers into the HD SUV market, that would've otherwise bought something completely different? i.e. your Highlander / Atlas / other large crossover buyer are not cross shopping 3/4 ton SUVs.

For sure. 99% of the market would come from existing full-size truck and suv buyers. No doubt.
How to win over new buyers? Make something new that people want.
Offer a real diesel like Ford did for a few years, not the underpowered whiny 6.0 Vortec.
Offer something that people want to be seen in. Doesn’t take much. (My new work truck just because it has a 2” lift, mudders, decent looking wheels and some cool stickers and painted tow hooks has got more random complements in a week than my previous work truck which was essentially the same but not “off road.”)

Take the new Burb body, which looks killer btw, toss it on a HD chassis, give it a little lift and some bling and a 5” tailpipe that begets the fire breathing diesel under the hood and watch all the guys “justify” this for their wife’s next soccermobile that also pull their boat and camper 10x a year! Put a cool looking roof rack on it and offer an attachment for a hi lift jack and some rotopax jugs. People be mall crawlin in them just like the Jeep’s, in no time. Added benefit, those that have a real need for one now have their next family truckster tow rig back, which is what this thread was all about.
How many people “have to have” a big diesel truck that don’t need one? Answer? Most of them. Myself included.
How many wives want a fancy SUV to drive through the Starbucks in? Answer? Most of them. (Well, not the liberal ones....different topic).

[Seon]

I replaced my 2007 Yukon XL SLT 4x4 with a 2010 Ford E350 Van with 55k original miles to tow my 6K travel trailer. Really loved the Yukon but DW likes to bring lots and lots of "stuff" plus 3 dogs and their crates when camping so I needed the Van space to carry them.
The Van doesn't have the bells and whistle that the Yukon had but it's a tow vehicle and a Home Depot run.
Having the right tool for the job is what counts.

[Mickeyfan0805]

APT wrote:

100% Agreed. It would be a challenge to convince my wife to drive a full sized passenger van compared to any modern (<20yr old) SUV.

The HD van was a non-starter with DW. All practical considerations aside, it simply wasn't ever going to happen!