3/4 or 1 ton SUV ?

[nhshep]

Crazy question. We loved our Travel trailer. Weight 6,100 lbs. Length 28 foot. Towed it with Dodge Durango V8. Never had an issue towing. Recently moved to 5th wheel keeping it as seasonal for now. Do not like the idea buying open bed truck where we have no use for the open bed except to handle the hitch to tow the 5'er.

Would love to gone with a larger TT 10k or 12k lbs 34 ft. But would have to change to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. We have no use for open bed truck.

Why have they not made a 3/4 or 1 ton SUV. Is it lack of demand or an engineering issue. What is wrong with putting a larger engine inside an SUV to accommodate towing capacity and make it longer for wheel base. Give those who tow larger TT the inside SUV function when not towing (maybe 3 row seating like the Durango).

Putting a cap on a truck is not the same. It would not have doors and seats like a SUV. (No offense to those who have a truck with a cap).

There must be plenty of people who would love to have an SUV with more towing capacity so they are not limited to less than 10,000 lbs and forced to go with a 3/4 OR 1 Ton truck with open bed.

[RoyJ]

Grit dog wrote:
Personally they're not my thing. Id take a HD truck 10 times out of 9 for my use. But given the soaring sales of full size trucks and suvs, year by year it just seems strange that a HD suv platform wouldn't be successful once again. Considering, for 1 mfg, they would only need to steal less than 5% of the overall market share of current full size suvs and trucks to sell some comparable quantities to other vehicle models.

Like I was saying before, they're probably afraid of cannibalizing their own HD truck sales.

If someone truly needed a Suburban 2500 or Excursion, they would've already bought a 2500/F250. The only alternative would be a Suburban 1500 or Expedition EL, but that's still cannibalism.

How do they win over new buyers into the HD SUV market, that would've otherwise bought something completely different? i.e. your Highlander / Atlas / other large crossover buyer are not cross shopping 3/4 ton SUVs.

[Gator398]

Three years ago we pulled a 5x8 enclosed trailer with our 9 passenger 2012 GMC Savana explorer van, 3 adults and 4 kids and cargo trailer usually at about 3k lbs. We had brake rotors replaced every 3 trips or so, whenever the braking vibration would get unbearable. The 6.0 motor was good enough for this but would not be enough for a TT in tow, and I could not imagine what the wind blowing it around would feel like as that was pretty unbearable at times as well.. When the A/C in the van started blowing warm was the final straw and we will never go back to a motor crammed into a compartment again (that includes bus/Class A). Be smart and buy a tow vehicle with a real hood and built stout enough for pulling AND braking. The '05 Excursion is the last real option for passenger hauling +trailer, if you can get over the late 90's interior and features for what people selling them wish they were worth. Maybe, thanks to coronavirus and the resurrection of road travel mixed with the collapse of the cruise industry, we may finally see the return of the true HD diesel powered 3/4t and 1ton SUV, not the thing Nissan has right now that is a towing joke. I imagine if Ford (for example) makes a long wheel base 2022 Excursion-Max with 7.4L gas, they wouldn't be able to build them fast enough for all of the RV's out there being piddled along with terrible tow vehicles.

EDIT: I forgot to add that we bought a 26' 6200# (loaded) TT and pulled it a couple times with our 2017 Infiniti QX80 4x4. Its 5.6 motor did surprisingly well, better than the 6.0 van, but could also be the better transmission with it. But the rear end was too squishy unfortunately and was so obviously overloaded at the tongue with the equalizer 4-point sway WDH, anything off interstate was like gambling whether staying at speed limit was possible (due to rear end dipping and rocking at higher speeds). It's been traded for a choppy ridin' dually truck that won't break under pressure.

[Grit_dog]

Dadoffourgirls wrote:


It took about three years to saturate the market starting in 2001. Their sales continued to dwindle as a percentage of all full size SUVs for GM in 2007 (and it might have been the bumper tongue weight). I think you underestimate the cost of engineering, producing, and certifying a low-volume, short-lived demand vehicle.

Additionally, GM is constrained currently with plant capacity.

Regardless of your staunch defense of the van, which really is apples and oranges compared to a typical suv, you may be right, or otherwise someone smarter than us would have re-introduced them by now. Although there's rumors from last year GM will.

Personally they're not my thing. Id take a HD truck 10 times out of 9 for my use. But given the soaring sales of full size trucks and suvs, year by year it just seems strange that a HD suv platform wouldn't be successful once again. Considering, for 1 mfg, they would only need to steal less than 5% of the overall market share of current full size suvs and trucks to sell some comparable quantities to other vehicle models.

Big part of the previous demise was likely similar capabilities as less expensive half ton SUVs (the whole world doesn't think like rvnet where you need more truck than necessary to get the job done) and generally no diesel offering or at least no good diesel offering after 2003 and none after 05 or whenever the Excursion died.
It would be a huge step back for many HD truck owners to get a gasser HD suv for towing unless they absolutely needed the seating.

[APT]

Grit dog wrote:
Bottom line, HD SUVs would sell like hot-cakes for a while at least until the market is saturated with them, the economy goes in the tank (along with all new vehicle sales) or we're all gassing up with a SO cord plugged into a transformer.

And all BS aside about vans, yes they are the most economical way to haul a large family and do have the capability to pull a modest trailer while hauling said large family. What they do acceptably or excel at in those categories, they still give up what most people "want" or think they "need" in a vehicle.
-Luxury? Not there. (Idk, maybe you could special order power leather seats and a good sound system, etc, but 99% of the vans for sale are basic transportation rigs)
- All weather capability? Nope, not for the "average" 21st century soccer mom or dad. Sure I just drove a rwd BMW 600mi through a blizzard and didn't think twice about it, but most people even in AWD and 4x4s were poking along like they were in a..... blizzard. It's 2021, not 1981.
- Power? best one can do is the new 6.6 gasser with a 6 speed. Not great even by HD gasser standards.
- Visibility, ergonomics, safety features? Alot of people are now very used to the ergos and technology that comes with vehicles built in the last 10 years or less. Full size vans are a throwback to the turn of the century, minus some mandatory safety updates.
-And the most subjective yet equally or more important to alot of consumers, the image.

100% Agreed. It would be a challenge to convince my wife to drive a full sized passenger van compared to any modern (<20yr old) SUV.

[Dadoffourgirls]

Grit dog wrote:
Bottom line, HD SUVs would sell like hot-cakes for a while at least until the market is saturated with them, the economy goes in the tank (along with all new vehicle sales) or we're all gassing up with a SO cord plugged into a transformer. ...

It took about three years to saturate the market starting in 2001. Their sales continued to dwindle as a percentage of all full size SUVs for GM in 2007 (and it might have been the bumper tongue weight). I think you underestimate the cost of engineering, producing, and certifying a low-volume, short-lived demand vehicle.

Additionally, GM is constrained currently with plant capacity.

[Grit_dog]

Dadoffourgirls wrote:
At the end of the day, my $22k off rental Express 2wd can tow the same 9500lb travel trailer.

And do I miss my 2500 Yukon XL with the 8.1? Absolutely not. The Express does the same job, and almost 40% more efficient.

Directly above your post, I acknowledged that a van IS the most economical way to move a large number of people and tow a good size trailer.

And to your point about GM still making HD subs, I believe you could be right and I'm all wet, maybe. I still think the demand is there and read something in the past about CAFE standards and how SUVs are classified with the passenger vehicles (cars) and take away from the aggregate fuel mileage averages in that class. So with that, the attractiveness to sell large fuel guzzler SUVs and get penalized when "many" of those customers would go buy a new crew cab HD truck instead and the mfgs wouldn't have a larger challenge with mileage standards.
ICBW, but I don't think big SUVs went the way of the dinosaur because of lack of demand.

[deltabravo]

wiskeyVI wrote:
Suburbans used to come in a 3/4T version...

Ditto. Probably the Yukon XL as well

[Lantley]

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Dadoffourgirls wrote:
GM has been making 1 ton Suburbans for several years. However, the tow rating was 4k, but there was over 4k in payload. The are sold fleet, and what was hauling all those key individuals in DC in January.

And how many of those suburbans can you go buy today at the chevy dealer? I'm pretty sure the OP's post/query wasn't about something that is unobtanium, just for the sake of someone saying, "told you so."

Grit - I know you are always correct. This was to highlight that GM had the engineering complete on a 1 ton Burb. If it was cost effective, helped the contribution margin, and was worthy of building for the retail public, they would. The sticker price was in the $80k+. At the end of the day, my $22k off rental Express 2wd can tow the same 9500lb travel trailer.

And do I miss my 2500 Yukon XL with the 8.1? Absolutely not. The Express does the same job, and almost 40% more efficient.

If the same job involves 4 wheel drive your economical van is not up to the task. While a 3/4 ton van and a 3/4 SUV have lots of overlap in their abilities. The need for 4x4 separates the 2 vehicles.
In the end I do agree there is only a small niche market for 3/4 ton SUV's that makes it hard to build them and make a profit.

[Dadoffourgirls]

Grit dog wrote:

Dadoffourgirls wrote:
GM has been making 1 ton Suburbans for several years. However, the tow rating was 4k, but there was over 4k in payload. The are sold fleet, and what was hauling all those key individuals in DC in January.

And how many of those suburbans can you go buy today at the chevy dealer? I'm pretty sure the OP's post/query wasn't about something that is unobtanium, just for the sake of someone saying, "told you so."

Grit - I know you are always correct. This was to highlight that GM had the engineering complete on a 1 ton Burb. If it was cost effective, helped the contribution margin, and was worthy of building for the retail public, they would. The sticker price was in the $80k+. At the end of the day, my $22k off rental Express 2wd can tow the same 9500lb travel trailer.

And do I miss my 2500 Yukon XL with the 8.1? Absolutely not. The Express does the same job, and almost 40% more efficient.

[Grit_dog]

Bottom line, HD SUVs would sell like hot-cakes for a while at least until the market is saturated with them, the economy goes in the tank (along with all new vehicle sales) or we're all gassing up with a SO cord plugged into a transformer.

And all BS aside about vans, yes they are the most economical way to haul a large family and do have the capability to pull a modest trailer while hauling said large family. What they do acceptably or excel at in those categories, they still give up what most people "want" or think they "need" in a vehicle.
-Luxury? Not there. (Idk, maybe you could special order power leather seats and a good sound system, etc, but 99% of the vans for sale are basic transportation rigs)
- All weather capability? Nope, not for the "average" 21st century soccer mom or dad. Sure I just drove a rwd BMW 600mi through a blizzard and didn't think twice about it, but most people even in AWD and 4x4s were poking along like they were in a..... blizzard. It's 2021, not 1981.
- Power? best one can do is the new 6.6 gasser with a 6 speed. Not great even by HD gasser standards.
- Visibility, ergonomics, safety features? Alot of people are now very used to the ergos and technology that comes with vehicles built in the last 10 years or less. Full size vans are a throwback to the turn of the century, minus some mandatory safety updates.
-And the most subjective yet equally or more important to alot of consumers, the image.

[Lantley]

Mickeyfan0805 wrote:

kellem wrote:
Because it would be addressing a much smaller crowd as trailers don't consume as much payload compared to 5th wheels....tounge weight vs pin weight.

Full size pickup trucks have almost the same interior space as bigger SUVs but can be had with much more capability.

Having the need for a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup truck trumps not having the need for a bed.

If you prefer large SUVs, simply stay within it's capabilities.

This is all fine and well until you start considering the seating issues. As a family of 5 with a dog, we limped along with our 2006 HD Suburban (with the 8.1) as long as we could. Pick-ups just don't lend themselves well to travel for families of more than 4. When we finally ditched our Suburban just over a year ago, we went with a pick-up, but are now much more limited in what we can do. The dog has to be left behind if we leave the state, travel days need to be shortened because we have 3 kids (12-16) sharing the back seat, etc.

I'm sure that others are correct that the economics just didn't make sense to continue to make them for such a small market, but those of us in that small market miss them terribly!

I'm with you my prior combo was a 7.3 Excursion and 36' 10K loaded TT.
It was a great combo. While I enjoy my current 5'er I still miss the passenger space f the X. Family of 4 and a Doberman barely fit in a crew cab pick. We had room to spare in the X.

[valhalla360]

kellem wrote:
Go look at the interior of the new Superdutys, it's mind boggling. You could easily haul 6 offensive linemen comfortably without the center console, no joke.

Nothing new. Back in the early 90's a professor would take a bunch of us to a conference in Washington (500mile drive) in his 4door F350. 5 college age 6 footers (plus the prof) and space wasn't an issue.

[RoyJ]

APT wrote:
Grit, no half SUV made after 2013 has payload to support a family or 6+ and 1000 pounds of TW, regardless of "tow ratings" and engines/transmissions that are far more capable than my 3/4 ton. Van's are unpopular/unfashionable, but that does not make them less capable.

I understand the OP's request for 3 rows of seats and not needing the truck bed. Why pay for the truck bed if not going to use it? Except, that 3rw row of climate controlled comfort and storage costs even more and has less RV towing capability.

Even towing capable vans are on their last legs, thanks to the rise of fuel efficient Euro vans.

The GM and Nissan are the last of their kind. Both the Transit and Sprinter maxes out at 7500 lbs. If you have a family of 6, that's 6500 lbs. Plenty of payload, but short on power.

Even with the GM vans, a 6.6 Express can only tow 10k lbs. Compared to a 3/4 ton crewcab which can easily tow 15k lbs WITH a family of 6 on board.

[Grit_dog]

Mickeyfan0805 wrote:

kellem wrote:
Go look at the interior of the new Superdutys, it's mind boggling.
You could easily haul 6 offensive linemen comfortably without the center console, no joke.

I am fully aware, and our crew-cab is shockingly roomy. A bench seat with 3 individuals for a 600 mile day, however, starts getting really tight, really fast! And, there's still nowhere for the dog!

It's all about how each individual/family uses it. In our case, the absence of a 3-row option was a huge hit.

Get a topper, put the dog back there along with the wife (or 1 kid if they're pissing you off...) bingo makeshift Suburban!!

[Grit_dog]

Mickeyfan0805 wrote:
In our case, the absence of a 3-row option was a huge hit.

Get a van...they're grrrrrreat! LOL



Even better in the winter....