About to return to truck campers - but need help

[portscanner]

We traded our class C for a Ford F450, a Lance 1181 and some cash.

Ran our new rig across the scales and the scales said we were 1K lbs over the GVWR. (not a big heartbreak - this really wasnt the truck I wanted)

So, we have our eyes on a brand new Dodge 4500 cab and chassis with flatbed. There are many reasons we want to go this direction - too long to list here. Doing a lot of homework, but there is one thing I have not figured out. Where do you get the turnbuckles or whatever is needed to tie down the camper to the bed? The flatbed is a steel bed.

I have seen pictures where people connect using the rail that runs around side of the flatbed (which makes sense) but I cant figure out exactly what they are using - so I can buy some!

Any feedback would be appreciated!

[NRALIFR]

Kayteg1 wrote:
........Will F450 give the same return?

I’d have to say yes based on what I got for my 2010 when I bough my current truck. Pretty much the same as yours, and that was despite the fact that my truck had been damaged and repaired TWICE by that same dealership. In fact, it was still in their body shop fixing the second event (front tire blow-out) when I traded it in. The first event was more serious. I slid down my driveway in the winter and played bumper pool off of two trees. Everything behind the cab got replaced after that one, including the rear axle.

But, I do need to add that if I were going to replace my truck today, I would seriously consider an F350 due to the higher ratings they have now. The comparable F350 just wasn’t available in 2016. I really, really like the tighter turning radius of the F450 pickup though, and the 19.5’s.

:):)

[NRALIFR]

Jim, I used to feel the same about a 550/5500 truck making the ideal TC hauler, but I’ve changed my mind in recent years, for my uses anyways. I’ve come to believe that contrary to the conventional wisdom that “you can never have too much truck”, you actually can over-truck your combination to the point that you’ll be unhappy with the ride.

A truck that’s loaded to 90-100% of its gvwr is going to ride better than a truck that’s loaded to 75% or less. Since I don’t tow anything while hauling the TC, and the gear we haul now is about all I need, replacing my truck with anything more than one of the lower rated F450 cab and chassis models just wouldn’t make much sense FOR ME. If I had different needs related to hauling a TC that resulted in a much higher payload, I’d be looking at putting some type of custom bed on a cab and chassis. But, and I think this is key, I would try to buy the appropriate truck such that I was loading it to at least 90% of gvwr.

You may not remember, but I used to have a 2010 F450 pickup myself. I loved everything about that truck except the pre-DEF Diesel engine that needed a DPF. Rather than delete all that stuff, I replaced the truck. As far as I can tell, the axles, suspension, brakes, tires and wheels are identical on the 2008-2010’s and the 2015-2016 F450 pickups. There are numerous differences with the engine, transmission, exhaust, and fuel systems though. Nothing that would affect the truck’s payload capability, though.

My experience-based conclusion is that for long trips, I would rather drive a fully loaded truck than a lightly loaded one. As always, ymmv. :W

:):)

[Kayteg1]

The reason for me to stay with F350 was differential ratio.
I order my 2017 with the lowest differential ratio available for dually, yet even with 6000 lb of cargo the beast engine was pulling all 6% grades on highest gear, so I wish I had additional overdrive gear.
Higher differential ratio comes with mpg penalty and even I did not complain of getting 12 mpg with big camper, I would not mind 14.
I just sold the truck and 3.5 years old Ford sold to a Dodge (!) dealer (did not want to wait for tire kickers) paid me back 75% of purchase price, what is KBB trade-in value.
Will F450 give the same return?

[jimh406]

NRALIFR, I got my F450 for the tougher tires, too. Bonus was the turning radius and larger brakes. It’s hard for me to imagine that the 1181 puts him 1K over, but then, I have no idea what else he’s carrying. My year was the last one rated at 14,500 though. No idea why the GVWR went down when the capability went up. 😄

But, I’d probably go 550/5500 if I went the nonpickup route. I figure why not go big, but I haven’t really looked at the differences between 450/4500 chassis vs 550/5500 seriously.

Otherwise, I think you can’t get a GVWR more than 14K in any brand pickup style now. The difference would be the weight of the rest of the truck. The F450 would weigh more than F350 pickup by at least a little with heavier tires and heavier suspension. I’ve heard the newer rear diffs are about the same if not the same on newer Fords. Even if not, the 4 rear tires on the F350 would be plenty for a higher GVWR.

Anyway, I like the stealth and practical nature of the F450 pickup model. Very capable, but doesn’t look like a flatbed. Also, allows me to have a bed cover when the TC is off and easy to put sides on for moving/hauling. That makes it pretty easy to convert from TC hauler to pickup. If I didn’t use it as a pickup, I’d like the chassis with a custom bed for more storage.

[NRALIFR]

It’s not necessary to waste your time explaining taxable ratings to me. I get it.

The reason I like 19.5’s on my truck isn’t just because of their higher weight rating, which is 15K @110 psi on the rear axle. I like them because they’re tough, long wearing tires with steel belts in the sidewalls as well as the tread area. They’ll last longer and they’re less prone to damage on the gravel roads I drive than most any other tire. I spend enough time off road that I want the toughest tire I can get. The all-steel construction also makes the tire sidewalls much stiffer than other tires, which improves the stability greatly. I don’t miss the ability to air down, because I’ve never had to do that.

While Ford set the rear axle GAWR on my truck at 9100, Dana rates the S110 axle at over 14K in some applications. Will I ever load mine up that much? No, but I would load it to more than 9100 without a moments hesitation. I’ve never weighed my current truck and camper, but based on what I know each one weighs separately, I’d say I’m within a few hundred pounds of that now.

If the tires on the OP’s F450 are the reason the gvwr is what it is, I’d be curious what’s different between his truck and an F350 of the same model year. Again, no offense to the OP. It appears he bought the truck and camper as a package deal, and he got what he got. He’s looking for a new truck, and I’d probably be doing the same. It sounds like what he’s looking for will end up being pretty close to my truck, mechanically anyway. His door sticker will look significantly different though, because his new truck will likely be a class 4, rather than a class 3 in name only like mine.

:):)

[Grit_dog]

portscanner wrote:

KD4UPL wrote:
If you don't have spring loaded turnbuckles you rip the tie down points off the camper. You either need the Happijack turnbuckles or the Torklift turnbuckles or their equivalent.
I had 4 folding rings installed in the deck of my aluminum flatbed. They held great for 7 years. I used happijack spring loaded turnbuckles front and rear.

Thank you! that information helps me out!

Thanks for asking questions and not answering questions posed to you....

But apparently you’re just a rvnet door tag reader and not at all interested in why your gvw would be substantially lower than it should be.
Best of luck. I like Dodges anyway.

[Kayteg1]

The 18" tires on my F350 give me about 12,000 lb capacity on rear axle, so 9900lb (from top of my head) axle rating is crucial number.
And again, taxable ratings are just that.
Waste of time keep explaining.

[NRALIFR]

Lancey wrote:

NRALIFR wrote:

portscanner wrote:
.....I am over the rear axle rating of the F450 by 380 lbs, but over the GVWR by 1160 lbs

the sticker on the door says the rear axle is 9000 lbs and the GVWR is 13300.......

What kind of F450 is that? Seems like an odd GVWR.

The 2008-2010’s were 14,500. The ~ 2014-2016’s were 14,000. The 2011-2013’s appeared to be rebadged F350’s, and I didn’t pay much attention to them. Not sure what the 2017 and up GVWR’s are like.

Just curious.

:):)

Yea I would like to see a pic of the door sticker, I wonder if its one of the f450's ordered without the 19.5's?

I went to portscanner’s website listed in his profile (www.beaglenews.com) and I see a couple of pictures of a White 2017 or newer Superduty. If it’s an F450, it does in fact have eight-lug wheels on it, so I would say those are not 19.5’s.

I’m disappointed to see that Ford is once again selling these dumbed down F450 pickups. Maybe not as bad as those abominations they were selling in 2011-2013, as it appears that portscanner’s at least still has the wide-track front axle (front wheel well extensions look wide). But for cripes sake, they shave about 700 lbs off the gross weight by going with an aluminum body, then throw away the opportunity to have an impressive payload by going small on the running gear. No offense intended to the truck’s owner.

:):)

[portscanner]

KD4UPL wrote:
If you don't have spring loaded turnbuckles you rip the tie down points off the camper. You either need the Happijack turnbuckles or the Torklift turnbuckles or their equivalent.
I had 4 folding rings installed in the deck of my aluminum flatbed. They held great for 7 years. I used happijack spring loaded turnbuckles front and rear.

Thank you! that information helps me out!

[Kayteg1]

restlessways wrote:
Have you by chance checked the difference in registration fees between a 3500, 4500 and 5500? I've always wondered if there's a difference. And what about insurance?

It is not just the registration fees.
In CA you pay for declared GCWV, so you have to estimate max on your trailer as well.
But crucial number for GVW is 15k lb, who in CA falls under smog law, who require engine replacement after 10 or 15 years.
Nobody wants that.

[Grit_dog]

Now we’re all curious how you have a F450 that is rated less than a 1 ton truck.
Regardless of whether you actually provide details on your truck or just keep throwing out bread crumbs, even the couple years of the “light duty “ 450 pickups are good for 14k + gvw.
Learn how your truck is equipped rather than reading the sticker and you’ll understand it’s capacity. He!!, my 3/4 ton Ram with camper on it is close to or at 13k especially if there’s a trailer hooked to it with the camper on.

[Kayteg1]

portscanner wrote:


the sticker on the door says the rear axle is 9000 lbs and the GVWR is 13300

The dodge I am looking at has a GVWR of 16500 and a rear axle of 12000

That's lower than my 2017 F350 had.
Something is not right here.
Whoever it was, he find a way to screw Uncle Sam big time.

[restlessways]

Have you by chance checked the difference in registration fees between a 3500, 4500 and 5500? I've always wondered if there's a difference. And what about insurance?

[Lancey]

NRALIFR wrote:

portscanner wrote:
.....I am over the rear axle rating of the F450 by 380 lbs, but over the GVWR by 1160 lbs

the sticker on the door says the rear axle is 9000 lbs and the GVWR is 13300.......

What kind of F450 is that? Seems like an odd GVWR.

The 2008-2010’s were 14,500. The ~ 2014-2016’s were 14,000. The 2011-2013’s appeared to be rebadged F350’s, and I didn’t pay much attention to them. Not sure what the 2017 and up GVWR’s are like.

Just curious.

:):)

Yea I would like to see a pic of the door sticker, I wonder if its one of the f450's ordered without the 19.5's?