Anyone towing with a 2.7 EcoBoost?

BenK wrote:
Understand and have factored that as a new attribute

I do NOT like "highly integrated" in much of anything

Have had to replace too many combo fAX/copier/printer/scanner
because one of those "highly integrated" functions malfunctioned

Still have one that I use as a copier/printer (have another, higher
rate printer too)...but...once that one goes...back to single
function...depending on sales of course... :B

What with vehicles...especially margin driven by the fashion
statement crowd checking off every option box when ordering...our
TV's are no longer one of the lowest cost vehicles out there...but...
one of the most expensive...including cars...

Just the cost to have the dealer (mostly only the dealer will have
the proper computer diagnostic tooling) to spend hours just to diag

Many times, am seeing that they don't really know and just replace
compputer parts or the whole computer system in hopes of 'fixing it'


Back on Jeremiah's topic...I'm still waiting for the masses towing
heavy with this setup to reach 150K or more miles and the cost
of their rebuild or whatever they do

Am more of a fan of variable displacement of a V8 of 6L or more

Sport45 wrote:
snip...

I keep mine a long time too. But I have a different train of thought on the matter. My fear is that it won't be the mechanical components, but rather the electronics that will break down and not be available when these vehicles are getting into their 20's. In that regard it's a rather level playing field between diesels, NA gas, and forced induction gas engines. Only today's most popular (not necessarily the best) engines will have electronic component availability.

In that regard, I suppose you could argue that "popular" today will define "best" in 2030...

Great insight Ben, thanks for the comments.

I am afraid that we are getting to the place where in vehicle rebuilds are becoming obsolete. Now instead of rebuilding components they are replacing components.

I.E. My Father In Law has a 07 Navigator with the 5.4 V8...this was Fords first effort at at Variable timing with the Ise of Cam Phasers...said cam phasers on his truck started "rattling" and now the motor has jumped time or something...it will not stay running...

The Ford Tech listened to the motor and said..."You Need a New Motor. every set of cams phasers we have replaced were a waste because we eventually replaced the motor."

I call this incompetence...unwilling to fix and only replace the motor.

Anyway...wait and see for me too...

I'm still waiting for the EcoDiesel verdict...so far there have been some issues. none that I can find with the CP4 fuel pump but several reports of catalytic converter failures and some hydrolocking in sub zero temps...overall it seems to be a pretty reliable truck.

for me right now, the future truck of mine is looking like a Ram Pentastar or a EcoDiesel..

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Understand and have factored that as a new attribute

I do NOT like "highly integrated" in much of anything

Have had to replace too many combo fAX/copier/printer/scanner
because one of those "highly integrated" functions malfunctioned

Still have one that I use as a copier/printer (have another, higher
rate printer too)...but...once that one goes...back to single
function...depending on sales of course... :B

What with vehicles...especially margin driven by the fashion
statement crowd checking off every option box when ordering...our
TV's are no longer one of the lowest cost vehicles out there...but...
one of the most expensive...including cars...

Just the cost to have the dealer (mostly only the dealer will have
the proper computer diagnostic tooling) to spend hours just to diag

Many times, am seeing that they don't really know and just replace
compputer parts or the whole computer system in hopes of 'fixing it'


Back on Jeremiah's topic...I'm still waiting for the masses towing
heavy with this setup to reach 150K or more miles and the cost
of their rebuild or whatever they do

Am more of a fan of variable displacement of a V8 of 6L or more

Sport45 wrote:
snip...

I keep mine a long time too. But I have a different train of thought on the matter. My fear is that it won't be the mechanical components, but rather the electronics that will break down and not be available when these vehicles are getting into their 20's. In that regard it's a rather level playing field between diesels, NA gas, and forced induction gas engines. Only today's most popular (not necessarily the best) engines will have electronic component availability.

In that regard, I suppose you could argue that "popular" today will define "best" in 2030...

Here in the Pittsburgh Pa area diesel fuel is ALWAYS more than gasoline. Right now diesel is the closest its been to regular gasoline costs in over 15 years. Regular gas being 2.95 and Diesel at 3.14. The last 15 years in this area were harsh for diesel owners filling up. Gas would be 3.75 is and diesel up around the 4.69 for gallon mark usually close to a whole dollar difference which sucks. Now that it is closer I am thinking of going diesel in the future but WHAT IF it goes back to the whole dollar a gallon difference again ughhhhhhhh :S

Bionic Man wrote:

itguy08 wrote:

APT wrote:
Diesel is about 10 cents per gallon less than 87 octane in my area today. Prices fluctuate seasonally as well as with location and the breeze. Typically in winter, itguy08's statement applies, just not today in Michigan.

Must be nice! :) Here in PA it's $2.79 for regular unleaded and about $2.99 for Diesel.

The Ecodiesel takes special oil that is not standard Diesel oil (at least according to the Mopar guys) an expensive oil filter. One of the Ram forums was saying $70 DIY oil changes every 10k. It also requires DEF every couple thousand (5k or so) at $2-3 per gallon.

The Ecoboost uses regular 5w30 and a cheaper filter, also every 10k. No DEF needed.

They both sucked the fuel down on the Ike Gauntlet test with the 2.7 doing it faster. The Ecodiesel also ran warm on that test.

You have a very strong dislike for the EcoDiesel and for Chrysler in general. We get it.

And I can't speak for PA, but I travel the West, and just about eveywhere I go (CO, UT, AZ, TX,) all have diesel at or below unleaded.

Maybe you can go back to your cost of fuel arguement this fall. It isn't valid now.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but seeing as how I live in Texas in the largest city in the state, I can say that Diesel still averages >10 cents a gallon more than regular at nearly every station. I'd consider that a wash personally, but it certainly isn't less expensive.

*Announcer voice* And now back to the Gas vs. Diesel wars.

BenK wrote:
Personally do NOT purchase for resale value, but what it will cost in the long haul. Looooong haul as in decades

That depends on the overall volume and that has to do with the
popularity...that drives volume...that drives parts/services/etc
pricing decades later

Not saying Ecoboost is bad...just a wait and see...in and on "my"
metrics....IMHO of course

I keep mine a long time too. But I have a different train of thought on the matter. My fear is that it won't be the mechanical components, but rather the electronics that will break down and not be available when these vehicles are getting into their 20's. In that regard it's a rather level playing field between diesels, NA gas, and forced induction gas engines. Only today's most popular (not necessarily the best) engines will have electronic component availability.

In that regard, I suppose you could argue that "popular" today will define "best" in 2030...

itguy08 wrote:

APT wrote:
Diesel is about 10 cents per gallon less than 87 octane in my area today. Prices fluctuate seasonally as well as with location and the breeze. Typically in winter, itguy08's statement applies, just not today in Michigan.

Must be nice! :) Here in PA it's $2.79 for regular unleaded and about $2.99 for Diesel.

The Ecodiesel takes special oil that is not standard Diesel oil (at least according to the Mopar guys) an expensive oil filter. One of the Ram forums was saying $70 DIY oil changes every 10k. It also requires DEF every couple thousand (5k or so) at $2-3 per gallon.

The Ecoboost uses regular 5w30 and a cheaper filter, also every 10k. No DEF needed.

They both sucked the fuel down on the Ike Gauntlet test with the 2.7 doing it faster. The Ecodiesel also ran warm on that test.

You have a very strong dislike for the EcoDiesel and for Chrysler in general. We get it.

And I can't speak for PA, but I travel the West, and just about eveywhere I go (CO, UT, AZ, TX,) all have diesel at or below unleaded.

Maybe you can go back to your cost of fuel arguement this fall. It isn't valid now.

Just because an engine has a turbo does not mean the engine is in a high level of stress. I have heard this from many people hear and I do not understand where they are getting this. I don't know why people see turbos and automatically think engine stress and that the engine will not last long. If that were true then we would have blown turbo diesels all over the place since they have much higher stresses due to compression ignition. However, they are "overbuilt" to handle that stress which is one reason of their longevity along with not needing that much engine speed(rpm) to get its power. Also, saying that a modern DI V8 engine is under "traditional" stresses is not true either.

Let's take a further look into what you are stating using the 2.7L Ecoboost and a 5.3L Ecotec which is the engine that is purchased the most.

2.7L Ecoboost V6 DI
Horsepower: 325 @ 5,000 rpm
Torque: 375 @ 3,000 rpm
Fuel: 87 Octane
Compression ratio: 10:1
Block: Compacted Graphite Iron/Aluminum
Head: Aluminum
Cylinder liner: None since the block is CGI like a diesel
Main bolts per piston: 6

5.3L Ecotec V8 DI
Horsepower: 355 @ 5,600 rpm
Torque: 383 @ 4,100 rpm
Fuel: 87 Octane
Compression ratio: 11.0:1
Block: Aluminum
Head: Aluminum
Cylinder liner: Cast Iron
Main bolts per piston: 4

Looking at the two, it is apparent that the 2.7L is a bit "overbuilt" in comparison with its CGI block which inherently makes the cylinder walls CGI and 6 mains. The 5.3L gets its peak power and torque at higher engine speed, and has a higher cylinder compression ratio even though the 2.7L is turbocharged. Just because something is turbocharged does not mean it wasn't built to handle it nor does it mean that it is under more stress than a non turbo engine.

APT wrote:
Diesel is about 10 cents per gallon less than 87 octane in my area today. Prices fluctuate seasonally as well as with location and the breeze. Typically in winter, itguy08's statement applies, just not today in Michigan.

Must be nice! :) Here in PA it's $2.79 for regular unleaded and about $2.99 for Diesel.

The Ecodiesel takes special oil that is not standard Diesel oil (at least according to the Mopar guys) an expensive oil filter. One of the Ram forums was saying $70 DIY oil changes every 10k. It also requires DEF every couple thousand (5k or so) at $2-3 per gallon.

The Ecoboost uses regular 5w30 and a cheaper filter, also every 10k. No DEF needed.

They both sucked the fuel down on the Ike Gauntlet test with the 2.7 doing it faster. The Ecodiesel also ran warm on that test.

BenK wrote:
Two schools or directions here that should be discussed, IMHO

Forced induction of small displacement V6 ICE's. Direct injection gasser. Has a higher level of stresses and so far...seems like
this OEM has done their homework

NA of with variable mid displacement V8 ICE's. Direct injection
gasser. Lower...or traditional levels of stresses...maybe when
cylinders are deactivated...those working are at a higher level
of stress...but NOT to the levels of forced induction

Both will prove themselves over the long haul and IMHO...when they
need to be rebuilt will further prove themselves

Will the parts OEMs provide the specialized tooling for the highly
stressed components for them both?

Will their parts cost and process costs be similar...or will one
cost more?...how much more?

Will the machine shops and crate suppliers likewise cost similar...or
will one cost more?...how much more?

What about the rest of the vehicle...mainly the drive train...

Personally do NOT purchase for resale value, but what it will cost
in the long haul. Looooong haul as in decades

That depends on the overall volume and that has to do with the
popularity...that drives volume...that drives parts/services/etc
pricing decades later

Not saying Ecoboost is bad...just a wait and see...in and on "my"
metrics....IMHO of course

All great points. I think the ecoboost will prove itself over time.

And your point "Personally do NOT purchase for resale value, but what it will cost in the long haul. Looooong haul as in decades" is very valid. I think the resale value is a little overplayed. Whether it is 4x4 or diesel. You still are paying a premium to get a little more on the back end. You really have not gained anything.

ShinerBock wrote:

IdaD wrote:


Can it with the 2.7?

Sometimes diesel costs more than gas and sometimes it costs less. It always gives you better MPG and resale, though.

Yeah, the 2.7L can be optioned with a 37 gallon tank and the biggest tank you can get with the Ecodiesel is a 27 gallon tank.

It is true that most of the higher up front cost of the diesel will come out as a wash in resale, but I am one of those that think you should pay more for an engine to get more power and capability, not less.

I don't disagree with that sentiment at all - if I were buying a half ton tomorrow, it would have the 3.5 Eco in it. I wanted a little more truck than that, though, and when you move to the bigger diesels you do get more power and capability.

That 37 gallon tank would cause some bladder discomfort on road trips.