Are Dually Extension Brackets Unsafe?

[bobbolotune]

When I thought I had it figured out, now this...

Everyone is saying to get the biggest truck you can. Because even if you don't need it now you may want to upgrade to a heavier truck camper in the future, or add a tow (which is my case, that I want the ability to add a tow in the future).

Which means a dually.

This is the decision that Truck Camper Magazine came to with for their new truck (within the past year I think), and the opinion expressed repeatedly in this forum.

Now someone told me, don't get a dually. And this wasn't just anyone. It someone with extensive truck camper industry experience. What he said:

They are a problem for fitting into parking spaces. This one I already knew and accepted.

Duallys are terrible on snow and ice. This I didn't know. I would assume with 4 rather than 2 tires on the ground that a dually would be that much better for snow and ice. Not so? Although I didn't tell him that I am planning on a 4x4 dually, and possibly that makes a difference.

Then the big one. You shouldn't camp in a truck camper with dually extension brackets. The extension is a hinge that swings in and out. It isn't stable. It is ok for storing the camper off the truck, but you shouldn't camp off the truck in a camper with dually brackets.

I hope those with actual experience can please express an opinion about these topics. About the snow / ice issue, and especially about the dually brackets.

Specifically the camper being discussed uses Happijac jacks and dually brackets. Possibly those are not the best jacks?

He said to get a 1 ton SRW. That a dually is unnecessary. That a 1 ton SRW has enough carrying capacity. But what I read is the next thing people with a SRW do is a $2,000 upgrade to 19.5 tires. Where the dually option is (if I recall) around $1,500. And (at least in the specs for the latest model trucks) you get more payload from a dually than a SRW. Also the recent thread people saying duallys drive better loaded with a camper. But if I can't camp off the truck with dually extension brackets that is a killer problem.

[Super_Dave]

Bob, I have happijack swing out brackets and camp with the camper off of the truck almost every outing with no issues. Swing out or no swing out, you will likely be looking for some form of stabilizer to reduce camper shake anyway. There are devices called Wobble Stops or just some good old fashioned blocking.

[jmtandem]

It would be ridiculous to get an inadequate truck for the job over these minor considerations.

The statement about dually brackets is a total myth. Just plain ignorant and stupid. Dually brackets lock into position with very coarse square teeth that are held in place by the weight of the camper. They're not going anywhere. It's no more dangerous to camp on jacks with dually brackets than without. If the camper falls over, you had bigger problems to begin with.

Yes, the truck is wider. So what? A good driver can park a dually anywhere a full size car will fit. If you don't feel comfortable, just park farther out. A little extra walking will do you good.

Traction on snow and ice can be an issue. In addition to the PSI issue mentioned above, an SRW's front wheels clear a path for the rear wheels to be down on a better traction surface. A DRW's front and rear wheels do not line up, so each wheel is up on top of the mud/snow, cutting its own path. Two ruts vs. six ruts.

The traction is the only legit problem in this discussion, but it is only an issue in extreme conditions, and it can be overcome with simple dead weight in the bed of the truck.

X 2. Now going on 140,000 miles with a dually in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Get a 4x4, decent traction tires, and learn to drive in snow. With a cabover on the truck almost all the weight is over the rear axle that is good for snow traction.

[ramgunner]

bobbolotune wrote:
...
Now someone told me, don't get a dually. And this wasn't just anyone. It someone with extensive truck camper industry experience. What he said:

They are a problem for fitting into parking spaces. This one I already knew and accepted.

Duallys are terrible on snow and ice. This I didn't know. I would assume with 4 rather than 2 tires on the ground that a dually would be that much better for snow and ice. Not so? Although I didn't tell him that I am planning on a 4x4 dually, and possibly that makes a difference.

Our truck is a 4WD/CC/LB/DRW. It's as big as they come.

I drive through a narrow security gate on a daily basis. Never had an issue. When parking in lots, I'll look for a spot where I can pull through two spaces (front to back), or back into a single spot around an edge. I don't mind walking a bit getting into stores, neither does my wife.

One location I've worked at is up a long hill. The road has a lean to the right. We had a good storm last April with lots of snow and ice. There were cars trying to get up the hill, and most of them were sliding off to the right and getting stuck.

I put it in 4WD and made it without an issue. As long as you engage a couple of brain cells (thinking takes at least two), a DRW is fine in ice and snow. You are wider than other vehicles, so you need to watch where the snow is piled up on the right side if plowed, and just think ahead. After you've done it a couple of times, you learn how to adjust and it's not really any worse than any other vehicle.

[bighatnohorse]

bobbolotune wrote:

Then the big one. You shouldn't camp in a truck camper with dually extension brackets. The extension is a hinge that swings in and out. It isn't stable. It is ok for storing the camper off the truck, but you shouldn't camp off the truck in a camper with dually brackets.

I hope those with actual experience can please express an opinion about these topics. About the snow / ice issue, and especially about the dually brackets.

Specifically the camper being discussed uses Happijac jacks and dually brackets. Possibly those are not the best jacks?

Whomever you spoke with sounds like an old school camper salesman.

Stability isn't an issue with swing out brackets (although they tend to wiggle more when one is inside the camper off-truck.) For that reason one wants to lower the camper nearer to the ground.
Happijac jacks have a history of binding after a few years and needing expensive replacement. Newer, heavier duty Happijacs are now available on some newer campers - and complaints about them have tapered off.

History; as camper manufacturers made campers heavier over the last decade, more people have opted for duallies and swing out brackets. At first, some manufacturers failed to reinforce the camper corners enough and we saw camper frames pull apart at the front corners mostly. 2004/2005 Arctic Fox 1150 models in particular comes to mind with that problem.

Newer, heavy campers are built stronger and can take swing out brackets. (Manufactures have learned at our expense.)

Dullies - unloaded are terrible on wet grass, snow, etc. The tire contact surface is double, yes. But the pounds per square inch is halved.

[805gregg]

One of my swing out brackets failed and caused the camper to fall on the side and land on my wife's car

[tonymull]

My uncle was a combat engineer in WWII. When it looked like snow he was up early putting on narrow but knobby tires on his old chrysler. Always the first guy at work.

[Buzzcut1]

Not my TC but for years I drove this unit in the mountains. It's a 4x4 dually on commercial tires and weighed over 12,000 pounds. We ran cable chains front and rear and responded in really nasty weather on snow and ice covered mt roads. You just took it easy and used the gears vs brakes. I never felt out of control with it.

[Reality_Check]

Cracks me up.

Brackets not adequate? where does one come up with this?

Dually is not as good in the snow as single. Splitting hairs here. Seriously, what percentage of time does the average guy drive in snow?

We snowmobile... chase the white stuff 4-5 months a year, 6 to 10 times a month. I dare say, I bet it's less than 2% of my driving.. in the winter. Less than that for the whole year. Carry cables or chains.

Parking problem? Strangest things people worry about..

[mkirsch]

It would be ridiculous to get an inadequate truck for the job over these minor considerations.

The statement about dually brackets is a total myth. Just plain ignorant and stupid. Dually brackets lock into position with very coarse square teeth that are held in place by the weight of the camper. They're not going anywhere. It's no more dangerous to camp on jacks with dually brackets than without. If the camper falls over, you had bigger problems to begin with.

Yes, the truck is wider. So what? A good driver can park a dually anywhere a full size car will fit. If you don't feel comfortable, just park farther out. A little extra walking will do you good.

Traction on snow and ice can be an issue. In addition to the PSI issue mentioned above, an SRW's front wheels clear a path for the rear wheels to be down on a better traction surface. A DRW's front and rear wheels do not line up, so each wheel is up on top of the mud/snow, cutting its own path. Two ruts vs. six ruts.

The traction is the only legit problem in this discussion, but it is only an issue in extreme conditions, and it can be overcome with simple dead weight in the bed of the truck.

[F350mule]

I like my dually, our camper has Atwood jacks with brackets and they are quite stable, we use it often off the truck. The statement about parking can be true about most TC's, they are wider than your truck anyway and most are longer. We are just a little more prudent where we park but I can back in most spots and be between the lines. As far as snow and ice, I've had both and I believe my dually is better.

[poncho62]

Buy some better brackets.....or have some made

[WyoTraveler]

All PUs years ago were bad on ice and snow. The gas tank was in the cab and very little weight in the rear. Now the gas tanks are in the rear and they handle much better. Parking a dually is a PITA. The spaces in shopping centers are getting a lot smaller. I went way out in back of the lot and had no problem. I wouldn't worry about parking. I park my MH in shopping centers. Lots of other large vehicles park there. Probably more difficult to park up close to a store in the small spaces.

[SugarHillCTD]

bobbolotune wrote:


Duallys are terrible on snow and ice. This I didn't know. I would assume with 4 rather than 2 tires on the ground that a dually would be that much better for snow and ice. Not so? Although I didn't tell him that I am planning on a 4x4 dually, and possibly that makes a difference.

That statement is correct (no comment on the other "facts")

That is the same reason why any pickup handles snow/ice better with weight in the bed- weight per tire surface area. The more weight a tire can push down into the slippery stuff, the better. A dually places (approximately) 1/2 the amount of weight per tire that a SRW does.
But having a 4x4 dually, especially with weight in the bed, would be better than a 4x2 dually.
M&S rated tires will also be a benefit.

BTW, we live in northern New Hampshire so we know slippery stuff.

[sabconsulting]

Interesting. I'd certainly be interested to hear what people think of DRW on slippery surfaces. I used to have a WWII deuce-and-a-half, and on a wet and slightly sloping grass with no payload, it was a real handful. I put that down to the 10 tyres not having enough ground pressure to dig in and provide grip. Modern military trucks seem to routinely have single rear wheels - I wonder if this is in response to problems using them in slippery conditions, or related to the ability to air them down?

Steve.