Are Dually Extension Brackets Unsafe?

[bobbolotune]

When I thought I had it figured out, now this...

Everyone is saying to get the biggest truck you can. Because even if you don't need it now you may want to upgrade to a heavier truck camper in the future, or add a tow (which is my case, that I want the ability to add a tow in the future).

Which means a dually.

This is the decision that Truck Camper Magazine came to with for their new truck (within the past year I think), and the opinion expressed repeatedly in this forum.

Now someone told me, don't get a dually. And this wasn't just anyone. It someone with extensive truck camper industry experience. What he said:

They are a problem for fitting into parking spaces. This one I already knew and accepted.

Duallys are terrible on snow and ice. This I didn't know. I would assume with 4 rather than 2 tires on the ground that a dually would be that much better for snow and ice. Not so? Although I didn't tell him that I am planning on a 4x4 dually, and possibly that makes a difference.

Then the big one. You shouldn't camp in a truck camper with dually extension brackets. The extension is a hinge that swings in and out. It isn't stable. It is ok for storing the camper off the truck, but you shouldn't camp off the truck in a camper with dually brackets.

I hope those with actual experience can please express an opinion about these topics. About the snow / ice issue, and especially about the dually brackets.

Specifically the camper being discussed uses Happijac jacks and dually brackets. Possibly those are not the best jacks?

He said to get a 1 ton SRW. That a dually is unnecessary. That a 1 ton SRW has enough carrying capacity. But what I read is the next thing people with a SRW do is a $2,000 upgrade to 19.5 tires. Where the dually option is (if I recall) around $1,500. And (at least in the specs for the latest model trucks) you get more payload from a dually than a SRW. Also the recent thread people saying duallys drive better loaded with a camper. But if I can't camp off the truck with dually extension brackets that is a killer problem.

[bobbolotune]

mkirsch wrote:
When did he ask that?

What he asked was:

1. Are dually brackets unsafe?
2. Are duallys bad in snow?

My original questions were answered. Since as the OP I read the responses in detail, let me try to summarize (and of course ask some new questions).

The short answer was that DRW on snow and ice is workable. If it becomes necessary, when the camper is off the truck put some dead weight in back of the truck bed. Also, more aggressive tires will help.

The talk about that with a dually the wind or a passing semi doesn't push you around. That is what pushes my decision to want a dually as the priority over parking and snow/ice.

In more detail, specifically my original question was about using the truck without the camper for my daily drive including in the winter (with the camper off the truck, since I don't plan to winter camp). The response was that you are not going to rule the road with a dually, but especially with 4x4 you will get by.

This surprises me in all the discussion I have read it never came up before that this is another reason to want a 4x4. Truck Camper Magazine did a reader survey about 4x4 where the majority opinion was yes for 4x4 being desirable (because there will someday be a time when you are very glad you have it). But I now realize that discussion was all about (summer) camping. Now this is another reason for 4x4 that it helps if you want to use the truck as a daily drive in the winter.

Also, as mkirsch and others said, if it becomes necessary put some dead weight in back of the truck bed.

Also, the possibility of more aggressive tires to help in snow and ice. 2BLAZERS said: "When it comes time for new tires I go with Goodyear Duratracs that have the snowflake rating". I looked at these tires on the Goodyear website and they look great. They are supposed to be good on snow, ice, mud as well as highway. I suppose the tradeoff is cost (and maybe ride?). They were listed at $174 per tire on the Goodyear website.

Although most people seem to upgrade to Michelins, not Goodyear. And there is the talk about "china bomb" tires (tires made in China that have too much tendency for blow outs with the weight of a truck camper or trailer). I don't know where the Goodyear tires are manufactured.

Multiple people said they have extensive experience with duallys on snow and it is workable. My conclusion is to not let concern about snow and ice talk me out of a dually.

As far as dually brackets, the short answer was don't worry it. You may get more wobble with dually brackets, but people do camp off the truck with dually brackets. Torklift Wobble Stops will help, or as one person said "old fashioned blocking".

Specifically Bedlam clearly answered the original question: "The jack extension brackets do allow the camper to wobble a little more than without them. Blocking the TC underside or using WobbleStoppers from Torklift will reduce that movement. I have no worries about the brackets being of adequate strength to hold TC and occupants in regular off-truck use." Also the Super_Dave first mention of Wobble Stops: "Wobble Stops or just some good old fashioned blocking".

There were several stories intermixed in the responses about failed brackets and brackets separating (whether it is the bracket itself or the connection to the camper, for example 54suds "I have seen at least 4 campers who's swing out brackets bent to dangerous angles"). I would think the laws of physics say that the further the jack is from the camper the more stress there will be on brackets (same as the longer the tow extension the more tongue weight on the hitch).

stevenal pointed to the official Happijack manual that said you should support the floor for living in the camper off the truck. It would seem to make sense to me to take the care to use jacks and blocks to reduce wobble and take stress off the camper and jacks. I googled this topic and found this old thread about jacks and blocking:

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27139204

It doesn't sound hard to take some extra care and jack the floor. I am thinking when I get the 3/4" horse mat for the truck bed mat that I will save some pieces to glue onto boards for the jacking. That cushion would be good to protect the underside of the camper and give some stress cushion.

Then the next question is where to store the jacks when the camper is loaded? Possibly the jacks and boards will fit into the truck bed between the wheel well and cab (I don't know if that is possible, maybe someone knows the answer to this).

So it seems floor jacks and Wobble Stops are two solutions to wobble, and both will reduce stress on the camper jack brackets. But I would think jacking will reduce more stress than Wobble Stops. It is carrying the Wobble Stops vs carrying the jacks. The Wobble Stops are probably easier to set up (and have the anti-theft feature), but if jacks have the added advantage of reducing more stress on the camper jack brackets that is a tradeoff.

Obviously people successfully truck camp with SRW and without blocking, so there is no right or wrong answer.

On the other hand (to change the topic), this is getting complex.....

I have a lot of other learning curve here. I could defer the whole topic by at first just leaving the camper loaded on the truck. Get through the other learning curve topics in my early camping (remember that I have zero truck camping experience), then work on wobble, jacks and blocking later.

For me, I am looking towards a lightweight non-slide long bed with minimal overhand camper on a dually. With that rig the camper will be about the same width as truck, and the rig will be only slightly longer with the camper on the truck.

I don't see what the advantage will be of unloading the camper. With the rig I am going towards parking won't be easier with the camper offloaded. I suppose less weight to carry for local drives, but the difference in gas cost couldn't be much for limited miles local driving. I suppose to avoid unhooking the electric and water to drive into town, and maybe having to level again when get back to the campground. But is that worth the trouble to unload the camper? This is an opinion I have heard before that this is an advantage of a non-slide lightweight camper (if you are willing to live in a smaller camper, which I am) that then you can leave it on the truck. Experience will tell. And this is a question. I am changing the subject asking for opinions about why people want to unload the camper.

[bobbolotune]

Grit dog wrote:
Well after 6 more pages of nonsense and advice that doesn't answer your question, bobbolololtunes, I'll answer your question.
Your sig has the setup you're dreamin of?
If so, you do NOT need a dually to haul that little camper. Barely need a 3/4 ton.
Get a srw unless you plan on getting a camper a whole lot heavier than that one.

Actually, there was some extremely informative discussion in this thread. Thank you to those who responded. This discussion has helped me greatly in making decisions about these topics.

Then people started getting argumentative and I lost interest in saying any more.

I agree that with the camper in my signature line that SRW would be enough. However, to add some more detail you are not aware of. Since I created that signature line I am now looking towards a little heavier camper (but still in the lightweight category). Also, I am hoping that I will be driving this truck for 10 years. In that time I could decide to upgrade to a heavier camper. But mostly my desire for DRW is because I plan to add a tow in the future.

What people say is better to have too much truck than not enough truck.

[mkirsch]

When did he ask that?

What he asked was:

1. Are dually brackets unsafe?
2. Are duallys bad in snow?

The only ridiculous answers were the ones from people who either have never owned a dually, or own duallys but seem to think that the proper reaction to a little slippage is to mash the gas pedal to the floor and saw the steering wheel back and forth in a panic.

[Grit_dog]

Well after 6 more pages of nonsense and advice that doesn't answer your question, bobbolololtunes, I'll answer your question.
Your sig has the setup you're dreamin of?
If so, you do NOT need a dually to haul that little camper. Barely need a 3/4 ton.
Get a srw unless you plan on getting a camper a whole lot heavier than that one.

[Buzzcut1]

mine hasn't fallen over yet ( truck is in the shop as of this afternoon to get the airbags installed tomorrow)

[RenoAl]

I have had my Dodge 4wd dually for over 10 years. I haul a Lance 1191. I have 110,000 miles on the odometer. We have over 500 nights in the camper. I take the camper off whenever we stay more than 2 nights. I tow a 3500 lb fishing boat. I have had it off in 60 mph winds gusts in Death Valley. I store the camper off the truck. We live at 6000 feet in the Sierra Nevada. We get snow and ice. I use Michelin all season mud and snow tires. I have not had a traction or a bracket problem. Yes it is true I cannot go through the drive up window at Sonic.

[mkirsch]

jmtandem wrote:

From someone who as far as we know doesn't even own a camper...

Wow! Made it all the way to five pages before somebody decides another does not know what they are talking about. From his signature mkirch appears to own both a dually and a truck camper. Maybe he does know what he is talking about.

Call me crazy, but I think he was talking about the guy with the failed dually bracket story, not me.

Now that I think about it, one of my brackets must have "failed" at some point in the past, because the hinge has been welded.

My brackets were salvaged from another camper when I bought them. That camper leaked, rotted, and collapsed, causing the "failure." They tried to repair the camper, but eventually ended up scrapping it after removing all the usable parts such as the jacks.

It was very timely for me. I found the craigslist ad for the jacks the day before I went to look at my camper. I knew I was going to need the swingout brackets and there they were.

[jmtandem]

Please play nice, or risk having to stand in the corner.

Wayne

Wayne,

My apologies. As you may have noticed I have likely spent lots of time standing in the corners especially as it relates to forums, so much so that I hardly recall what it was like not to be standing in the corner. Might try that some day. Nah, probably never will. Anyway, the experts say we learn from our mistakes and failures so I guess I should have learned a lot.

[2BLAZERS]

I am on my 3rd dually.

I daily drive my dually. 20-22K miles a year total.
I even take it over the passes several times a year.
I take it down mucky Forest Service roads all the time.
I have never had a rock stuck between the duals.
It hauls the camper great, it does fine in the snow and ice.
When it comes time for new tires I go with Goodyear Duratracs that have the snowflake rating.

I'm happy with my choice.

Always fun reading the SRW v DRW posts.

[Super_Dave]

A wood or frame failure at a bracket could also be called a "bracket failure" and have nothing to do with the bracket.

[Reddog1]

Please play nice, or risk having to stand in the corner.

Wayne
Moderator

[jmtandem]

From someone who as far as we know doesn't even own a camper...

Wow! Made it all the way to five pages before somebody decides another does not know what they are talking about. From his signature mkirch appears to own both a dually and a truck camper. Maybe he does know what he is talking about.

[sleepy]

The OP should change the title of this thread,

When anyone searches for info on truck camper jack extension brackets one of the headlines that might come up would be the implied lie

Dually Extension Brackets are Unsafe

Well, the vast majority know that this is totally false.

And worse missleading...

The OP posses this as a question in the title by making a statement and adding a question mark.

Just by moving the word "are" to the begining of the title... it would remove the missinformation factor.

Sleepy

[bighatnohorse]

jimh425 wrote:
Pictures of a collapsed TC means the bracket was unsafe is kind of like a picture of a wrecked rv beside the road means all RVs are unsafe.

Context is important. Most of us have read of accidents that were user error for TCs. Most of the OPs explain their mistake. I don't remember any blame on the dually bracket.

Right. Once a jack leg sinks into soft ground and the camper lists to one side, then all bets are off.
Some things are going to break.

I've never seen a report of a failed swing out bracket.

[Reddog1]

sky_free wrote:
... I actually replied to your tire question in another thread -- they are the Michelin LTX AT/2. I think these are good tires, but they are not meant specifically for snow of course, and there is probably no significant difference between these and other all-season radials. My point is that 4WD should be adequate as long as you have decent tires.

I noticed you had asked about my sway bar in that thread and it's just the stock sway bar that came with it. ...

Thanks.

Wayne