Axle flip on a small 16 feet Sportsmen

[vlopddap]

I just bought my first TT to replace our 10 feet pop-ups. It's a slightly used 2011 KZ Sportsmen Classic 16BH. I have only one concern till now; it's the trailer height. Just to reach my house from the main road, the kind of large triangular steel bracket under the rear bumper rub on pavement a few places when I climb steep hills. Obviously my TT is perfectly levelled with my towing vehicle. But to be honest, when the TT is parked in a parking lot, the rear bumper brackets only clear the ground by 3-4 inch maximum.

My axle is a Dexter and Dexter sell a "axle flip kit" which look to be extremely easy to install and very cheap too (like 40$).

I'm just wondering if it's a good solution and also if flipping axle have unwanted sides effects like a bad handling or anything else? I'll obviously need to redo my entire weight distribution hitch adjustment but it's not a big deal.

Thank you very much! 🙂

[vlopddap]

Hi guys! I revive my old thread because I just got my axle "flipped" on my little Sportsmen Classic. There's a HUGE ground clearance improvement. To be honest I would say that I would have taken it a little less high if I had the choice, but as it's a basic axle flip, height adjustment was not an option.

But it definitely correct all my issues and I don't see any driving feeling different yet!

1. I never rub the rear bumper bracket anymore while driving up hills and when entering in a driveway where there's a sidewalk

2. I don't any more sewer return or hard time to empty tank when the campsite was not perfectly levelled.

3. I don't have any more rubbing issues with my weight distribution hitch. Instead of adjusting it 2 inch drop, I reversed the ball mount to 4 inch rise.


There's definitely a very major design problem with those small Sportsmen Classic trailers, some engineer didn't design things right and functional. From the factory the clearance between the sewer output drain and the ground were LESS THAN 3 INCH... that's completely insane and probably why many owners broke the drain pipe! No jokes, only while driving from house to the end of my street, I rubbed the bumper protective brackets three times and I had not even reached the highway yet!

I don't have a very good shot of "before", but in this old photo you can see how the sewer drain is near of the ground, it's scary!



After the axle flip the ground clearance is impressive!! Almost 8 inch now!






Only cons is the entry step is now a little bit high for the kids... so I built them up a very basic wood step I'll carry in my van's trunk. Problem solved!

[vlopddap]

Hi everybody! After 4 months I decided to revival this thread and make you a follow up after my first camping season with my Sportsmen Classic 16BH.

I didn't "flip" my axle yet, but I definitely need to. This trailer is SO low than the triangle protection brackets on the rear bumper are rubbing on pavement SEVERAL times during a trip.

Moreover last week I decided to get rid of my Equal-i-zer weight distribution hitch because this damn thing weighs 105 pounds! I hurt my back several times when hooking up my trailer on my van with those bars! So enough is enough, I placed an ads in the classified and sold this damn thing at a very fair price. With the money I earn, I purchased the Andersen weight distribution system which is one-of-a-kind device who are mainly lighweight aluminium and weight less than 60 pounds for all installation hardware, but once it's installed on the trailer, the ball mount you are dealing with weighs less than 30 pounds!! Trust me, it's an awesome system!

Only problem of the Andersen WD so far, is, I can't install it on my DAMN Sportsmen Classic because the trailer frame is just too low!! With the Equal-i-zer hitch, the previous owner had to modify the WD to add ground clearance by cutting the ball mount bracket, but with the Andersen it's just too low.

So now I am back with the axle flip because I really need to make it right now to fit my new Andersen WD system.

Here's a picture to show you how the Andersen WD do not have any ground clearance! In fact I give it a 2 minutes test drive on the road and rub the ball mount bracket on the pavement twice! Please ignore the fact the frame brackets are installed incorrectly (angled). Andersen recommend to weld them on the trailer's frame, but I just want to make a test drive before welding it, but as you can see even at 350 LB-FT torque on bolts, the bracket moved forward!!

[scottykrug]

I flipped ours last fall after dragging and ruining a spare tire in a dip. Only found two issues since. The mrs has to use a small step stool to get in and we no longer fit under the rain gutter in the driveway. Have not noticed a stability issue and I gained extra room for the larger tires I installed after the flip. I also installed new suspension hardware while the trailer was apart. The old plastic bushings were totally worn through. New wet bolts and metal bushings all around.

No regrets yet.

[69_Avion]

vlopddap wrote:

69 Avion wrote:
As the height of the trailer goes up, so does the vertical center of gravity. Will it perform as well in a fast, tight turns? No, but if you aren't taking tight turns at high speeds you should be fine. Keep the heavy items that you pack in your trailer, on the floor and forward so that you have plenty of tongue weight and you should be fine.
Improper loading with insufficient tongue weight will create much more of an issue than your increased height.

Okay, I understand what you mean. Basically the "dry" tongue weight of my TT is around 15%, but add propane tank and battery that sit right on the tongue and you are WAY over 10%. So except if I put some VERY HEAVY things inside behind the rear axle, improper tongue weight distribution can't be an issue.

Anyway other fact about the 16BH is the cargo capacity is only 450 pounds according to the manufacturer label... so I guess most of our luggage will go inside the van except for clothes and food maybe. We never carry water by chance, but I think only the potable water reservoir weight over 200 pounds full of water!

It sounds like you load your trailer properly and the tongue weight is correct. The reason I gave the example of the tongue weight is that it can create much more of a towing issue than raising your trailer less than 6". I have built many equipment trailers over the last four decades and a high center of gravity can cause issues if the weight is really high. Since you can't load a lot of weight in your trailer, that probably isn't going to be an issue. The only other issue is aerodynamics which is more of a concern with cross winds than reducing your gas mileage. The higher the load with cross winds the more of a handling issue it can be. I doubt that your trailer will have any issues when you increase it's height. When I built my last trailer for my camper I put extra water and gasoline under the trailer in front of the axle to help keep the weight as low as possible. It tows like a dream even with 15" of ground clearance.

[Camper_G]

vlopddap wrote:
Thanks for theses informations Camper G !

I was aware than "flipping" is actually an expression and the real thing is to put axle over/under leaf springs. I have a great mechanical skill and it do most of my car maintenance/repair myself (brake, suspension, head gasket, etc) so as my trailer maintenance (bearing, etc).

Installation is not my concern, it's more like unwanted side effects... 6 inch higher sound pretty high however but I'll need to deal with it if I want to increase my trailer height!

I'll probably need to buy another Equal-i-zer ball shank because I had to cut the included one to fit my Dodge Caravan. The van hitch is so low than the shank rub on the pavement! LOL So I needed to cut it for about 2 inch to clear the ground! So now with the jacked-up trailer it will probably be too short! DAMN! 😛

No problem at all, glad my post was helpful. Sounds like you have a good skill set to tackle this job. Just take your time and be careful and make sure the trailer is high enough and secure before you start taking things apart. You don't want that much weight coming down on you.

Do one side/one axle at a time, IE start with the RR then do the LR, then RF and LF, or something like that so you always have one side connected (you have to loosen the U bolts on the opposite side to give you the play to swing the axle under the leaf spring/move leaf spring over the axle).

I also reccomend hooking the trailer up to your van for stability purposes when you jack it, as again, you have to go pretty far up to do this job. I am fortunate to have a long frame floor jack (harbor freight special!) and that was nearly maxed out getting enough height to do this job. Thankfully I had enough height I could just disconnect the equalizer side of the spring, then drop the axle under the spring and swing the spring back up again.

There are You Tube videos out there that show others doing this job and mine went pretty much that way, just be sure you maintain the correct spring perch angle when you locate the new spring perch, but the instructions from Dexter give you those specs.

A travel trailer of any size seems to be asking a lot out of any minivan, so I hope you installed a transmission cooler on your van. Dodge's have notarisouly weak tranny's so I'd reccomend caution, especially if you get into the hills with it.

Regarding your hitch shank, I was fortunate to be able to retain mine as my Expedition sits pretty high and when I towed the trailer home it was a few inches "nose high" (horrible for towing stability as others mentioned), so after the relocation my rig sits pretty level now. As an aside, before my relocation I was pondering buying an extended drop shank so the trailer would sit more level, but realized even doing that, the Layton had such poor ground clearance, it still would have drug the tail getting into my driveway, let alone any campsites that were not dead level, so in essence I killed two birds with one stone when I did the relocation. I also have no handling issues at all after the relocation.

I'm very pleased overall with the results and have no regrets in doing the relocation from under slung to over-slung.

Take care,
G

[Huntindog]

The raised center of gravity worriers have no actual experience with this.
I have raised all 3 of my TTs. Handling has never been a problem for me. Nor have I ever read of anyone actually having this issue. Will it raise the center of gravity? Sure. But it doesn't seem to be an issue.

The only downsides to raising a TT are a reduction in MPGs of about 1. And the higher steps. I always boondock on unlevel surfaces, and am often able to compensate for this by setting up where I need to have the tounge low to be level.

Too bad about your shank. I did the same thing on my first TT. Then a low bush knocked off my black outlet when breaking camp... What a mess.
Had to replace the tank, and then I did the axle flip, and got a new shank.

[full_mosey]

Do it! I did it to my 2010 K-Z 14RK.

I gained 5+" height. I also switched from 175R80/13 to 185/14 with new 14" rims for another .75".

HTH;
John

[vlopddap]

69 Avion wrote:
As the height of the trailer goes up, so does the vertical center of gravity. Will it perform as well in a fast, tight turns? No, but if you aren't taking tight turns at high speeds you should be fine. Keep the heavy items that you pack in your trailer, on the floor and forward so that you have plenty of tongue weight and you should be fine.
Improper loading with insufficient tongue weight will create much more of an issue than your increased height.

Okay, I understand what you mean. Basically the "dry" tongue weight of my TT is around 15%, but add propane tank and battery that sit right on the tongue and you are WAY over 10%. So except if I put some VERY HEAVY things inside behind the rear axle, improper tongue weight distribution can't be an issue.

Anyway other fact about the 16BH is the cargo capacity is only 450 pounds according to the manufacturer label... so I guess most of our luggage will go inside the van except for clothes and food maybe. We never carry water by chance, but I think only the potable water reservoir weight over 200 pounds full of water!

[69_Avion]

As the height of the trailer goes up, so does the vertical center of gravity. Will it perform as well in a fast, tight turns? No, but if you aren't taking tight turns at high speeds you should be fine. Keep the heavy items that you pack in your trailer, on the floor and forward so that you have plenty of tongue weight and you should be fine.
Improper loading with insufficient tongue weight will create much more of an issue than your increased height.

[vlopddap]

PAThwacker wrote:
raising the overall camper up, increases the frontal area exposed behind the van. That is the number one power grabbing variable.

The trailer is already taller than the van. So as my father-in-law Sportsmen 19FB is taller than his Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, especially if he drive the Jeep with the roof down. That will decrease the gas mileage a little bit because of the wind drag I would say, but what else?

In my opinion a travel trailer is always taller than the towing vehicle, even with a pickup truck... except if you drive a pop-ups camper. 😉

[PAThwacker]

raising the overall camper up, increases the frontal area exposed behind the van. That is the number one power grabbing variable.

[vlopddap]

Thanks for theses informations Camper G !

I was aware than "flipping" is actually an expression and the real thing is to put axle over/under leaf springs. I have a great mechanical skill and it do most of my car maintenance/repair myself (brake, suspension, head gasket, etc) so as my trailer maintenance (bearing, etc).

Installation is not my concern, it's more like unwanted side effects... 6 inch higher sound pretty high however but I'll need to deal with it if I want to increase my trailer height!

I'll probably need to buy another Equal-i-zer ball shank because I had to cut the included one to fit my Dodge Caravan. The van hitch is so low than the shank rub on the pavement! LOL So I needed to cut it for about 2 inch to clear the ground! So now with the jacked-up trailer it will probably be too short! DAMN! 😛

[vlopddap]

PAThwacker wrote:
the frontal area is increased better measure twice for van's sake.

What do you mean? I know I'll need to change my ball mount for an higher one, what's the point? :@

[PAThwacker]

the frontal area is increased better measure twice for van's sake.

[Camper_G]

vlopddap wrote:
Well here's a little story which raises my idea of an axle-flip...

My father-in-law own a 2013 Sportsmen Classic 19FB and the ground clearance issue isn't specific to the 16BH model, but to the entire Sportsmen Classic line! Because last weekend he goes to camp somewhere in the northern US and he can't connect to the camp site sewer inlet because the inlet was actually HIGHER than the outlet on the Sportsmen... in fact the sewer drain on the Sportsmen is no more than 3-4 inch from the ground!

Finally he was be able to change from this camp site for another farther which has a lower sewer inlet... but that show you how the Sportsmen Classic have low ground clearance!

I "flipped" the axles on my 1989 Layton last year shortly after I purchased it. I wouldn't call it easy by any means and you should have the new spring perches welded to the axle after your finished with the flip so they don't move. I gained about 6" in ground clearance after the relocation and I am very happy with the results. I am 5'4" and my wife is shorter than I am, so I just put an extra small stool on the ground before the single step on the trailer, no big deal.

My trailer tows the same as it did before the relocation, no handling or sway issues there, I did have to re-set my hitch obvisouly after the relocation.

Note that "flipping" is a genaric term, your not actually "flipping" the axles, you are re-locating them from above the leaf spring to under the leaf spring (over slung). If you physically Flip the axles you will have handling issues as the axles have bend in them as designed and if you "flip" them over (180 degrees) you will have tracking/handling problems.

I have 24+ yrs of mechanical experience turning wrenches and while it was not the hardest job I've ever done, I would not call it easy. Getting the trailer jacked and blocked high enough to do the relocation is a bit hairy and you need good wood cribbing to support it. After the trailer is raised and the frame on blocks, I also put my crank-down jacks on the corners down for an extra safety measure. What is your level of mechanical experience? If you don't have much, I would recommend paying a good RV shop to do this for you.

The prior owner of my trailer had put steel wheels under the frame on the back that drug on my driveway the first time I backed it in when I brought it home before the re-location. That's not good at all for the frame as it's not designed to handle that weight load that far back. It can cause frame twist/damage and a host of other issues as well. I would not recomend removing your rear brackets as was mentioned prior, they are there to protect your pipes and tanks.

Good luck.