Boondocking in a national park lodge parking lot?

[realter]

Any rules against overnighting in the parking lot of Old Faithful Lodge, or some other busy place?

What if you have a room, and some of the family were to sleep out in a camper?

[Freep]

then to follow the rules where? I don't understand what you mean.

Edit:

Oh I think you mean THAN, not then. Ironic that you can't follow spelling and grammar rules and yet you are a stickler for rules. 😉

Anyway, let me give you an example of what I mean.

We parked in the rear parking lot of a convenience store during an ice storm in Missouri once. We've done this before and just walked into the store, bought a small item and let the clerk know we were going to be parked for a few hours, sleeping. We didn't ask if we could park, we asked if anyone is going to hassle us while we try to get some sleep.

Sometimes if you ask "Can I park?" people feel obliged to answer that question truthfully and tell you "no" even if they'd rather look the other way. If you tell them what you are going to do and ask them if you'll be bothered, well that's a different question isn't it? That relieves them of the burden of telling you no, which they may not want to do.

Of course, rules exist for a reason but sometimes the right thing(or benign thing) to do is to violate the rule.

Here's another similar situation. In Texas we went to a park along the border(or was it New Mexico?). Anyway we were looking for a place to camp up on this hill, a road was washed out and there were park rangers around. We went to ask a ranger where to park and while we were talking to him we asked where would be a good place for us to camp for the night. He said he knew of some places that were pretty far from the park. Then we asked when the park closes and if there was a gate that closed on us. He got the hint and said, "We close at dusk, no one comes up here to patrol after that."

Clearly he couldn't authorize us to camp there. But he didn't care if we parked in the lot overnight.

We gave him the opportunity to make a judgement call without officially making the call, thus giving him plausible deniability in the off chance that something went wrong. Knowing how to ask the right questions and how to chat up a ranger helps a lot.

But by all means, I encourage everyone else to ask directly if you can camp and be told no. We will continue to communicate our intentions without actually asking permission.

[toedtoes]

Freep wrote:

toedtoes wrote:


It's the authority's JOB to tell you no or to give you the exception. By not asking permission, you are requiring that authority to do more work than necessary (by now having to remove you from the location, write up a ticket, etc.), but you're concerned about making their job easier...

Sometimes they would rather look the other way than be forced to say no. Because often they don't have the option to make a reasonable exception and it rankles them.

We have been told in the past that where we are parked is not for camping but then also told that after dark, no one checks. Wink wink nudge nudge.

There is a concept of the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law. Some people understand this and some people don't.

Nope. Not buying it. Your justification is lame.

You really think they prefer you to just do it then to follow the rules? Yeah right.

[Freep]

toedtoes wrote:


It's the authority's JOB to tell you no or to give you the exception. By not asking permission, you are requiring that authority to do more work than necessary (by now having to remove you from the location, write up a ticket, etc.), but you're concerned about making their job easier...

Sometimes they would rather look the other way than be forced to say no. Because often they don't have the option to make a reasonable exception and it rankles them.

We have been told in the past that where we are parked is not for camping but then also told that after dark, no one checks. Wink wink nudge nudge.

There is a concept of the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law. Some people understand this and some people don't.

[westernrvparkow]

3oaks wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
I agree with you. My point was just that by asking, the worst that will happen is they say no and you go elsewhere. By doing it behind their backs, you risk a lot more.

Exactly! It's amazing how many people think "Rules and Regulations" are not meant for them.

Sometimes there are exceptions, of course, and nothing wrong with that as long as prior permission is granted by those in charge.

How about just accepting the rule and live with it. While it is not asking to overnight in an area where it is expressly prohibited, we get people asking to do something we prohibit all the time. They want to set up tents on their sites, they want to have campfires, they want to park on the grass instead of in the parking areas etc. etc. Yes they ask, but then they don't accept the answer. Most of the time we get into discussions (author's use of polite, non-judgemental term) about why such a rule exists and we receive an upbraiding as to why it shouldn't apply to them.
Both asking permission and asking forgiveness puts additional burdens on the authorities they do not need. It is the constant barrage of incidents like this that cause those authority people to have what is viewed as bad attitudes. "Because I said so" and "it's the rule, and you need to follow it" become the default answer because no one asks for permission with the mindset that if the answer is "no" they will just accept it and move on.

[Ralph_Cramden]

toedtoes wrote:

realter wrote:

bka0721 wrote:
The answer is no.

First, it isn't even boondocking. It would be dry camping in a parking lot.

Enjoy the parks!

b

Sorry to get off track, but what's the difference. I've always read boondocking here, but my daughter who lives in WA with a small TT uses the term dry camping. She never heard of boondocking.

Technically, "dry camping" means camping without hookups of any kind - it can be done in a campground or not. "Boondocking" means what tenters call "dispersed camping" - it is done outside of a campground in a wilderness area (often BLM or USFS lands). Then there is the term "overnighting" - that is done when parking for a quick sleep while on the road (usually in parking lots, etc.). And then there is "stealth camping" - it is done in populated areas and is about staying off the radar of residents and/or authorities (it is usually done on residential streets or industrial areas).

Boondocking is dry camping, but dry camping is not necessarily boondocking.

Overnighting is dry camping, but dry camping is not necessarily overnighting.

Overnighting is not boondocking.

Stealth camping is not boondocking.

Stealth camping may be overnighting.

You forgot to mention Trailerparking!

That's when you're on a concrete pad packed in with your neighbors like a sardine. When you walk out your door you're looking in the guy next doors window, because you're so close your awning scrapes the paint off his trailer when the wind blows, and before you get to the bottom of your stairs you can count how many slices of bacon are on his plate. Usually a golf cart blows by about every 15 seconds full of adolescent nose pickers. You also typically have no trees or shade and campfires may or may not be permitted, usually not.

[toedtoes]

Grit dog wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

realter wrote:

bka0721 wrote:
The answer is no.

First, it isn't even boondocking. It would be dry camping in a parking lot.

Enjoy the parks!

b

Sorry to get off track, but what's the difference. I've always read boondocking here, but my daughter who lives in WA with a small TT uses the term dry camping. She never heard of boondocking.

Technically, "dry camping" means camping without hookups of any kind - it can be done in a campground or not. "Boondocking" means what tenters call "dispersed camping" - it is done outside of a campground in a wilderness area (often BLM or USFS lands). Then there is the term "overnighting" - that is done when parking for a quick sleep while on the road (usually in parking lots, etc.). And then there is "stealth camping" - it is done in populated areas and is about staying off the radar of residents and/or authorities (it is usually done on residential streets or industrial areas).

Boondocking is dry camping, but dry camping is not necessarily boondocking.

Overnighting is dry camping, but dry camping is not necessarily overnighting.

Overnighting is not boondocking.

Stealth camping is not boondocking.

Stealth camping may be overnighting.

Is this like the rvnet urban dictionary?

Learnt something new today with these 2 stealth camping threads.....we also have the higher authorities of morally appropriate stealth camping with us. Bravo!

Do I have morals - yeah.

Do I have strong ethics - yeah.

Do I really give a cr@p where you camp - no.

If you stand in front of me bragging about how clever you are for breaking the law will I call you on it - h@ll yeah.

Do you have a problem with that - I couldn't give a rat's @ss.

[Grit_dog]

toedtoes wrote:

realter wrote:

bka0721 wrote:
The answer is no.

First, it isn't even boondocking. It would be dry camping in a parking lot.

Enjoy the parks!

b

Sorry to get off track, but what's the difference. I've always read boondocking here, but my daughter who lives in WA with a small TT uses the term dry camping. She never heard of boondocking.

Technically, "dry camping" means camping without hookups of any kind - it can be done in a campground or not. "Boondocking" means what tenters call "dispersed camping" - it is done outside of a campground in a wilderness area (often BLM or USFS lands). Then there is the term "overnighting" - that is done when parking for a quick sleep while on the road (usually in parking lots, etc.). And then there is "stealth camping" - it is done in populated areas and is about staying off the radar of residents and/or authorities (it is usually done on residential streets or industrial areas).

Boondocking is dry camping, but dry camping is not necessarily boondocking.

Overnighting is dry camping, but dry camping is not necessarily overnighting.

Overnighting is not boondocking.

Stealth camping is not boondocking.

Stealth camping may be overnighting.

Is this like the rvnet urban dictionary?

Learnt something new today with these 2 stealth camping threads.....we also have the higher authorities of morally appropriate stealth camping with us. Bravo!

[jimh406]

There are National Forests available to boondock. National Parks ... no.

[Lwiddis]

Merry Christmas, Freep!

[JimK-NY]

bka0721 wrote:
...........

I can't think of a National Park or one I have worked in that stops patroling at 5 PM. That seems really strange.............

b

This is actually quite common. I worked as a campground host at Capitol Reef. The rangers went off duty at 5pm. I had phone numbers to call if I needed backup after 5. For other parks I really don't know but for a great many I cannot remember seeing any rangers working in the evening or at night. Yellowstone is a definite exception.

[toedtoes]

Freep wrote:

toedtoes wrote:


Yep. My most hated phrase around is "better to ask forgiveness than permission" - it's a justification to ignore the rules and do what you want.

OR it's a way to make a reasonable exception without putting an otherwise agreeable authority on the spot and forcing them to say no because nosy rule sticklers would then get them in trouble.

Really? Doing something that you know is not allowed in order to prevent the authority person from telling you no is considered "reasonable"???

It's the authority's JOB to tell you no or to give you the exception. By not asking permission, you are requiring that authority to do more work than necessary (by now having to remove you from the location, write up a ticket, etc.), but you're concerned about making their job easier...

[Freep]

toedtoes wrote:


Yep. My most hated phrase around is "better to ask forgiveness than permission" - it's a justification to ignore the rules and do what you want.

OR it's a way to make a reasonable exception without putting an otherwise agreeable authority on the spot and forcing them to say no because nosy rule sticklers would then get them in trouble.

[Freep]

Lwiddis wrote:
Think what your are proposing x 100 or 200...overnighting in the Old Faithful Lodge parking lot. Now think about Mary and Joe with a room at the lodge but no place to park because you are overnighting. Now see why the answer is "no?"

As long as it's December 24th, it should be OK.

[Kayteg1]

Common name for procedure is "overnighting".
It's been few years since last time I drove RV across the country, but still remember how each state and jurisdiction can be different.
California has Rest Stops, where truckers can stop for a nap beside truck stops, but don't you dare stop commercial rig in residential neighborhood.
NV seems to allow camping everywhere (but who wants to do that on 120F desert?)
What I am getting to is that years ago, while driving 40' motorhome in one of Easter states I had hard time to pull over to sleep as all shoulders have been packed with semi-trucks (did they dry camp?).
Than it come visitor center of one of local parks. Signs on the road and at parking lot itself did say "no trucks allowed".
Perfect site for RV overnighting and we really enjoy it.