Buying Advice

[oyarsa]

My wife and I really want an RV. We have two kids (8 and 9) and she wants a third. Well, technically she wants twins...but let's not go there. We would take it out fairly often, I hope, but not constantly. We are stretching the budget a bit because we just bought a Toyota Sequoia for the prospective third child and towing. I was originally thinking used, but a new one can be had at a monthly payment we could afford.

Today we looked at a local dealer who showed us a 2017 Bullet Ultra Lite 272BHSWE. It really seems to fit our needs. The right size, multiple sleeping locations, a tub, and light enough. We really like it, but I really don't like jumping into things. The salesman was implying he is offering a great deal, but I don't know enough to know.

He is asking $24,995 and offering to include the brake (which I understand from another source I would need), and, if we buy it tomorrow, a hitch & bar. Supposedly the hitch is a nicer one, as well, but he's a salesman...

Any thoughts on that brand/model/price/etc? He also suggested Duratain for an additional $2000. I admit I'm not the best at taking care of something like this (waxing, etc), so I'm thinking it would be a good option, especially since we may be storing it outside and possibly using it in the winter here in Washington where there is lots of salt usage on the roads.

[DownTheAvenue]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

DownTheAvenue wrote:
You should also not let the dealer supply you with that cheap hitch. The only hitches you should consider are a Hensley, ProPride, or a Equal-i-zer. The others are just junk.

So, Reese Dual Cam and Blue Ox are just junk, as well as every other type by any manufacturer other than the ones you mention? Got it.

In my opinion, yes. Your mileage may differ.

[krobbe]

To calculate the max weight of a trailer for your SUV, start with the TV's max payload and work from there. The most limiting weight for SUV's is usually payload. The loaded up trailer's tongue weight will be between 12 - 15%. I'll use 13% in my calculation.
1230 - 530(family) - 80(distribution hitch) = 620(available for trailer tongue)
620 / 0.13(13%) = 4,769 max trailer weight.
Now subtract the cargo(1000Lbs) that goes into the trailer to get the dry weight.
4769 - 1000 = 3769
So based on your payload capacity, a dry weight trailer of 3769Lbs is a good fit for your Sequoia.
The Keystone Bullet 2070BH comes in under your weights.
This is exactly why I found a 3/4 ton Suburban to pull my 5700 dry, 7200 loaded, 1100# tongue Bullet.

[Ralph_Cramden]

DownTheAvenue wrote:
You should also not let the dealer supply you with that cheap hitch. The only hitches you should consider are a Hensley, ProPride, or a Equal-i-zer. The others are just junk.

So, Reese Dual Cam and Blue Ox are just junk, as well as every other type by any manufacturer other than the ones you mention? Got it.

[DownTheAvenue]

You should also not let the dealer supply you with that cheap hitch. The only hitches you should consider are a Hensley, ProPride, or a Equal-i-zer. The others are just junk.

[oyarsa]

Thanks for the continued replies.

So, by my calculations, I should aim for something between 5000 GVWR (perhaps the ideal) and 6000 GVWR at max.

I saw in a 2012 Sequioa product information sheet that if it has the tow package the payload is 1600. Problem is I've seen several different numbers in reputable places and on top of that I'm not sure if I have the tow package. I assume just having a built in hitch isn't the tow package.

Jayco has at least one 5500 lb trailer that looks like it might fit our needs. Any recommendation of which company makes the lightest trailers?

[GrandpaKip]

Our kids have 3 children, a 21’ bunk house camper, and, until recently, pulled with a Frontier. They have been on 6 week trips the last 2 summers, so it’s not just taking a quick jaunt to a local campground. Now that the youngest is 5, they upgraded to a 1 ton van, but still have the 21’ camper. They spend most of their time out of the camper, though. Their camper has a max weight of 6000 lb. and actually weighs in at about 5000 lb.
So, it can be done.

[DownTheAvenue]

oyarsa wrote:
To be clear, it's not a van. It's the highest rated towing capacity of full size suvs, or very close. And the rating is based on the latest standards.

I suppose it's just frustrating. Even the Jsyco website says a 6500 GVWR could be towed by a Sequoia.

By my calculations, if we had no extra cargo in the car, and the kids didn't grow, we could do around 6000 lbs.

How is a larger family supposed to do this? Cram three kids in the back of a truck? Take two vehicles?

Yes I knew it was not a van...don;t know why I typed that. It is a large SUV...but the videos I posted many are being towed by a vehicle similar to yours.

[downtheroad]

The trailer you asked about in your later post......LINK
Would be a much better fit for your Sequoia...and it will allow you and your family to get your feet wet in RVing.
If it is in good shape I'd consider it, certainly over the first one you asked about.

[oyarsa]

To be clear, it's not a van. It's the highest rated towing capacity of full size suvs, or very close. And the rating is based on the latest standards.

I suppose it's just frustrating. Even the Jsyco website says a 6500 GVWR could be towed by a Sequoia.

By my calculations, if we had no extra cargo in the car, and the kids didn't grow, we could do around 6000 lbs.

How is a larger family supposed to do this? Cram three kids in the back of a truck? Take two vehicles?

[DownTheAvenue]

oyarsa wrote:
Thank you for all the responses!

My wife is very disappointed. She really had her heart set on that trailer, but it really sounds like a bad idea. It's a bit frustrating (and perhaps says something about the salesman) that we told him the Sequoia had a 7100 lb limit, but he still went with that model. I'm kind of curious how he would have handled us finding out after the fact that it was too much for our vehicle.

I did some more research into all the various weight issues. I think I now understand the various weights, but where I have trouble is gauging what to consider for cargo weights.

The payload capacity is 1230. I weigh around 230, my wife around 130, my son we'll say 100, and her daughter around 70. So for our family we add 530 pounds to the vehicle. With no additional gear, that leaves a tongue weight of 700. Which would be ok (but not great) with a 7000 lb trailer using 10% tongue weight.

What should I consider for extra cargo weight in the car? Around 100? 200 lbs?

If I add 200 pounds of luggage/etc., that leaves only 500 for the tongue weight. That means a 5000 lb GVWR trailer if it's fully loaded. It seems to me that the payload capacity is what will severely limit us. Apparently, with 1230 payload, that gives the car 7300lb. The GCVWR is 13,500, so I would be losing out on 1200 pounds of possible weight (7300 plus the 5000 lb trailer). It seems to me that we would benefit by not using the vehicle for carrying gear and instead putting it in the trailer...

How much cargo on top of dry weight is typical in a trailer? How much weight should I expect for water, etc.? I know it varies depending on the person, but is there some ballpark estimate I can use?

I'm sure these answers are on here, so I'll keep poring through this site, but I appreciate any suggestions as far as what size we should be looking for.

Also...I really like the idea of renting one to try out, but where do you suggest looking to rent one?

Thanks!

Dry weight is a meaningless figure. Always use the trailer's GVWR or gross vehicle weight rating as the weight of the trailer.

I really hate you are fixated on a big hard sided trailer. You van will not handle any trailer that size well. While the van may well be able to tow that 7000 lbs figure, it will be huffing and puffing to do it. And there is a gigantic difference between 7000 lbs of bricks in a utility trailer, and a big hard sided RV. The wind resistance of a big trailer will be like an additional 1000 lbs of weight. Then the dynamic forces of a truck passing or you passing a truck and it is a swaying disaster just waiting to happen.

Watch these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXEm7MWPlhQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miE3MOcqn7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_mYqCaaBdU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-XZvE2YSI

Here is the best video to watch. It shows how the wind of a big truck, whether you pass it or it passes you, can effect the stability of a towed RV trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cncnLouNyB8

Please abandon the idea of towing a big hard sided trailer with that van. about a 16 to 18 foot hard sided trailer or pop up is your best choice.

[wing_zealot]

One thing you should know, if you load 200 lbs of luggage into the vehicle, that takes away 100% (200 lbs.) from your payload of the vehicle, leaving you with 200 lbs less tongue weight you can have. If you load that 200 lbs of luggage into the trailer, you are only adding 10% to 12% (20 to 25 lbs) onto the tongue weight, a 180 lbs savings on your payload.

Try his site to help with your calculations Clicky

[oyarsa]

Which is more important? Dry weight or GVWR? I would assume dry weight because the cargo weight would theoretically be the same no matter which trailer we get, right? Maybe slight differences depending on tank size?

What about this one? I'm trying to show my wife that not all hope is lost!

http://www.bluedogrv.com/product/used-2006-r-vision-trail-lite-26sb-754104-29#photos

[oyarsa]

Thank you for all the responses!

My wife is very disappointed. She really had her heart set on that trailer, but it really sounds like a bad idea. It's a bit frustrating (and perhaps says something about the salesman) that we told him the Sequoia had a 7100 lb limit, but he still went with that model. I'm kind of curious how he would have handled us finding out after the fact that it was too much for our vehicle.

I did some more research into all the various weight issues. I think I now understand the various weights, but where I have trouble is gauging what to consider for cargo weights.

The payload capacity is 1230. I weigh around 230, my wife around 130, my son we'll say 100, and her daughter around 70. So for our family we add 530 pounds to the vehicle. With no additional gear, that leaves a tongue weight of 700. Which would be ok (but not great) with a 7000 lb trailer using 10% tongue weight.

What should I consider for extra cargo weight in the car? Around 100? 200 lbs?

If I add 200 pounds of luggage/etc., that leaves only 500 for the tongue weight. That means a 5000 lb GVWR trailer if it's fully loaded. It seems to me that the payload capacity is what will severely limit us. Apparently, with 1230 payload, that gives the car 7300lb. The GCVWR is 13,500, so I would be losing out on 1200 pounds of possible weight (7300 plus the 5000 lb trailer). It seems to me that we would benefit by not using the vehicle for carrying gear and instead putting it in the trailer...

How much cargo on top of dry weight is typical in a trailer? How much weight should I expect for water, etc.? I know it varies depending on the person, but is there some ballpark estimate I can use?

I'm sure these answers are on here, so I'll keep poring through this site, but I appreciate any suggestions as far as what size we should be looking for.

Also...I really like the idea of renting one to try out, but where do you suggest looking to rent one?

Thanks!

[darsben1]

DownTheAvenue wrote:
Where to start?
1. That "Duratain" is a big waste of money. They merely spray (if they even do that)some Scotchguard on the woven fabrics and a spray wax on the outside. They probably have about $100 in the whole process. They make more money on those add ons than on the whole deal.
2. The electric brake controller is a must, but worth about $200 at the very most.
3. You will be pushing your Toyota to the very max with actual weights, but the dynamic forces of that trailer will be pushing that van around big time. You will not enjoy the towing experience and probably not use the RV because of it.
4. I am offended by the "if you buy tomorrow will add in the hitch." That is just putting undue pressure on you to buy and shows zero respect for you. Do you really think day after tomorrow they would not do the same deal?
5. A very quick Google search found that very same trailer for $2000 less.
6. DO NOT pay anything extra for a pre-delivery inspection.
7. Do not buy an extended warranty...another rip off.
8. You should be looking for a much smaller trailer or better yet a pop up. Your van will tow it much better and safer.
9. Consider buying used. Most RVs are used a few times and then are sold. If you buy that big a trailer to tow behind your van, that is what will happen to you. You will tow it two or three times, realize it is mistake, and sell your trailer.
10. RVs depreciate faster than a rock sinks in water. Again, buy used.
11. You need to do much more research before you buy. This forum has a wealth of information. Study the many different RVs. Study the many different brake controllers. Study the many different hitches. You are no near ready to make an informed decision in buying.
12. A RV show is a great place to start, but leave your check book at home. There will be relentless pressure to buy.

#3 above and you will exceed the payload capacity of the vehicle