Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Madhatter1]

8.1 never posts the low diesel prices on Flying J, only the highest. Right now the lowest price for gas in AZ is 1.81 and the lowest price for diesel is 2.09. He is like CNN. Report not on how things are but how you want them to be.

[8_1_Van]

woodrow wrote:

Rvndave wrote:

8.1 Van wrote:

TennesseeBob wrote:
Diesel may be 70% more but I get 95% more mileage than I got with my V-10 gasser

I only got 30% better mpg in my 2003 6.0 4x4 PSD Excursion compared to my 2002 8.1 4x2 3500 Van.

I thought you had a dozen people that came on vacation with you, and your family that paid for your gas?

And he rides a mountain bike when he thinks gas prices are a threat to his posts, travels to find the biggest differential between gas and diesel...the 8.1 van is an obvious freak. He has a huge diesel envy issue no doubt! especially after buying a Slapper like he has. Shame Shame...He will soon someday realize that just because he lives in a depressed economy in the "Who know's where" based on his fuel cost posts that are all over the map, that some here tow in an environment that may require a vehicle that performs as an athlete under heavy load conditions! Thus the Diesel.How many gasser big rigs are there..HMMMM:h

8.1..You Lost, sorry you owned a Stroker..and now a Slapper, Some never Win! Sorry. You Can try and buy a used Duramax or Cummins on your Fuel ventures I guess? Either way you have adapted the inability to tow with ease and accomplish fuel economy based on your posts and infrequent accuracy.

K now show me that Flyin J garbage as usual....OH who gives a Darn when you cant make it to the top of the hill to get gas! Fooled again..

I have been using my bikes since 1979 and I guess that is weird to coach potatoes like you. I see the high diesel price has YOU all bet out of shape, my heart pumps royal purple for you boy. Here in NJ diesel is 70% more than reg unl gas.:B

[woodrow]

Rvndave wrote:

8.1 Van wrote:

TennesseeBob wrote:
Diesel may be 70% more but I get 95% more mileage than I got with my V-10 gasser

I only got 30% better mpg in my 2003 6.0 4x4 PSD Excursion compared to my 2002 8.1 4x2 3500 Van.

I thought you had a dozen people that came on vacation with you, and your family that paid for your gas?

And he rides a mountain bike when he thinks gas prices are a threat to his posts, travels to find the biggest differential between gas and diesel...the 8.1 van is an obvious freak. He has a huge diesel envy issue no doubt! especially after buying a Slapper like he has. Shame Shame...He will soon someday realize that just because he lives in a depressed economy in the "Who know's where" based on his fuel cost posts that are all over the map, that some here tow in an environment that may require a vehicle that performs as an athlete under heavy load conditions! Thus the Diesel.How many gasser big rigs are there..HMMMM:h

8.1..You Lost, sorry you owned a Stroker..and now a Slapper, Some never Win! Sorry. You Can try and buy a used Duramax or Cummins on your Fuel ventures I guess? Either way you have adapted the inability to tow with ease and accomplish fuel economy based on your posts and infrequent accuracy.

K now show me that Flyin J garbage as usual....OH who gives a Darn when you cant make it to the top of the hill to get gas! Fooled again..

[8_1_Van]

Rvndave wrote:

8.1 Van wrote:

TennesseeBob wrote:
Diesel may be 70% more but I get 95% more mileage than I got with my V-10 gasser

I only got 30% better mpg in my 2003 6.0 4x4 PSD Excursion compared to my 2002 8.1 4x2 3500 Van.

I thought you had a dozen people that came on vacation with you, and your family that paid for your gas?

I do have people that pay for the gas but what does that have to do with the mpg ?

[Devo_the_dog]

8.1 Van wrote:

TennesseeBob wrote:
Diesel may be 70% more but I get 95% more mileage than I got with my V-10 gasser

I only got 30% better mpg in my 2003 6.0 4x4 PSD Excursion compared to my 2002 8.1 4x2 3500 Van.

He's probably figuring in the tax rebate that PSD owners get every year. Have you been leaving it out of your tax returns?

[Rvndave]

8.1 Van wrote:

TennesseeBob wrote:
Diesel may be 70% more but I get 95% more mileage than I got with my V-10 gasser

I only got 30% better mpg in my 2003 6.0 4x4 PSD Excursion compared to my 2002 8.1 4x2 3500 Van.

I thought you had a dozen people that came on vacation with you, and your family that paid for your gas?

[8_1_Van]

TennesseeBob wrote:
Diesel may be 70% more but I get 95% more mileage than I got with my V-10 gasser

I only got 30% better mpg in my 2003 6.0 4x4 PSD Excursion compared to my 2002 8.1 4x2 3500 Van.

[Ace_]

mgratner, you're a funny guy. You said you were done with this thread, but you're not, you keep coming back. You then say you have one question, but ask two. What am I supposed to do. I offered you my truck to drive and see if it would pull the grades. What can I do... I guess I should just come clean. See, I'm a 13 year old kid that got on my dad's computer. I don't own a truck and if I did it would only be to take my kids to the grocery store, or soccer. I don't own a trailer, but if I did it would probably be have a GVWR of 1500 lbs with 13" wheels. I've never owned a truck, gas or diesel, I never worked on a cattle ranch, I never sailed a boat (I mention this because I'm sure people familiar with ranching know trucks and sailors know engines as well, but I wouldn't know either, they wouldn't have varied experience in different settings helping to understand the true value of what works well in what type of situations). I've never towed a trailer larger than a Radio Flyer red wagon. I meant to say this earlier, but was embarassed, but here goes, you are the only one that knows anything about trucks, trailers and the like. When offered facts and reasoning, although you dismiss it, it's ok, because you have experience, and are the only one allowed to have experience. Although you drive a Dodge diesel, you know more about any other brand, any other engine, gas or diesel.

I'm going to get ready for Turkey day now, because if my parents find out I'm on their computer they'll really be upset. Next time you're driving up the 6% grade and you see a kid in the back seat or a 4 door sedan, picking his nose, it's probably me, so wave, ok?!!! I'll be the one daydreaming about owning a truck that you tell me is worthy, because I certainly can't have my own experience or opinion. Thank you for the schooling!

[mgratner]

Ace,

Answer 1 queestion. Do you honestly believe that a stock v10 can pull an 11,000 5th wheel up a 6% 5 mile grade at 5000 ft. elevation doing a constant 55-60 MPH without overtaxing the engine? If you do I have a bridge to sell you real cheap. I happen to have a Dodge. I have friends with Ford and Gm diesels and they can do it also. All 3 diesels have plenty of power for that climb. Not so with gas.

By the way what kind of RV do you pull with that V10?

Cigar Mike

[Ace_]

mgratner wrote:
Ace,

I took your advise and went to the site you recommended. How the heck you can compare drag strip results to trips of 1000 miles in real life highway conditions is beyond my understanding. There is no way that a stock gasser will climb a 6% 5 mile grade at speeds aproaching what a diesel can do. In 4 years and some 50k miles of towing I have seen many gassers in the right, truck hill climbing lane, with the diesels pulling 11k 5th wheels running in the center lane.

Cigar Mike

I knew you couldn't stay away. By the way, I'm not comparing drag strip results to trips of 1000 miles in real life highway conditions. I'm not comparing them at all. Someone else did and I provided the link so you could read "their" comparison. I don't know this to be the case, so you can enlighten me, but did you take the current offerings from the Big 3, 3/4-ton and 1-ton, gas and diesel and drive each 1000 miles? If so, I'm sure your word is gospel and if you say diesel is better, in each circumstance, it must be true. Otherwise, I just read the article and provided you the link. One question though, why was the V10 gas truck traveling faster than the diesel at the end of each test (if you don't know, it's because the diesel torque curve is much lower in the RPM range and then drops off when the gas truck torque curve continues to climb...regardless of your real world driving, it's what happens when the trucks are compared side by side with the same loads over a "test track", it's also what happens when you put them on a dyno...I know some people have dynos in the seat of their pants, I've heard it before, that they can tell by the seat of their pants experience, regardless of what the high tech machines tell them)?

There is more to torque than what you have at the flywheel. There's more to each of the trucks than that, AND, what works for you in the real world doesn't have to work for others, OR they may have different experiences based on what they have and where they drive it. They're both "torque monsters", and they have a differently designed engine to work differently (diesel peaking lower in the RPM range and the gas truck peaking higher, just their design). You know though, I'm kind of tired of "arguing" about it. The facts are what they are, regardless. You drive A truck and I hope you're happy with it. If you had the money and time, or if I had the money and time we could get all the trucks lined up together, do the math on paper, then run them on the dynos, then run them up the highest peak on Interstate 5 (not 30 miles from where I live) and we could test them all. I think I'd still take away the same thing though, that each of the Big 3 offerings, gas or diesel, will pull the same trailers up the grades we have. You'd probably take away something too, that a 2004.5 Dodge diesel is the only truck that can do it, your way.

[Devo_the_dog]

DannerFamily wrote:
...Diesel are the best option - period.

When only using YOUR criteria.

[mgratner]

Ace,

I took your advise and went to the site you recommended. How the heck you can compare drag strip results to trips of 1000 miles in real life highway conditions is beyond my understanding. There is no way that a stock gasser will climb a 6% 5 mile grade at speeds aproaching what a diesel can do. In 4 years and some 50k miles of towing I have seen many gassers in the right, truck hill climbing lane, with the diesels pulling 11k 5th wheels running in the center lane.

Cigar Mike

[Devo_the_dog]

Prior to the long trip I mentioned, I averaged 13.999 mpg with my V10 since last November. The mpg was calculated using the actual gas put in the tank, actual mileage driven. The actual mileage driven included no load (to and from work), weekend loads (yards and yards of base rock, etc. plus other heavy materials) and towing a race car trailer every now and then. Even though the mpg is close to 14 mpg, mathematically I haven't been able to average over 13.9.

When I include this trip, my average over one year of use dropped to 12.2. If diesel is 70% more, I'd have to average 17.5 mpg with a diesel truck if the cost of fuel was the only factor to consider. Breaking that down for my specific use: for typical use, I'd have to average 19.9 mpg and then 12.9 mpg on 5000 mile road trips, for the fuel costs to be the same. Again, only the cost of fuel IF the cost of diesel magically was fixed at 70% greater than gas.

I've already found out that the truck we practically own (5 payments left) works fine. And, if we bought a "new" truck (we'd buy a used truck), we'd most likely buy one with a diesel. And, no matter how I calculate it, it would never be a better financial choice, for us, even if I adjusted the cost of diesel (lowered it). Why? I'd still have to include the difference in the cost of the "new/used" truck and the one we'd sell, assuming all other costs were equal (oil changes, etc.)

The only reason why we would consider it is to save a little time on long trips.

One item I have considered is strengthening the engine's rotating assembly and putting on a supercharger. Then, it's back to comparing the cost of that modification, maintenance and other repairs over time, to the cost of a newer truck with a diesel.

[DannerFamily]

Ace! wrote:
I think a loss of power occurs more at altitude than anything else. Proper gearing though, and towing in the right rpm range for what the engine was designed seems to keep my truck from pinging/knocking. I use 87 octane only and have never had a problem with pinging/knocking. My current truck has the 3-valve V10 with increase hp and torque over the earlier models, so it might depend on the year of truck, I don't know.

Don't be offended - the diesels do pull better. For us this summer Eisenhower pass with 9500 lbs in tow - cruise control set at 70. Allllll the way up - with more power on tap, locked torque converter (4th gear) and cool trans/engine temps. SWEEEEEETTTTT!!! Only problem I had was a damn Prius that got in the way (couldn't do better than 65). Massive torque means i can maneuver my trailer into campsites (even uphill) in idle. Gassers you have to goose to move.

Diesel are the best option - period.

[TennesseeBob]

Diesel may be 70% more but I get 95% more mileage than I got with my V-10 gasser