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Diesel vs gas......................

blt2ski
Moderator
Moderator
OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.



Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer
4,683 REPLIES 4,683

nbfaulkner
Explorer
Explorer
I have a Ford F250 PSD. I had the experiance to towing on some hills this past week end coming home from the poconos. While the hills were not the rockies I ran right up the 6% grades even accelerating to 70mpg at the top(just a test I run about 63 mpg). On the hwy I averages about 11.4 MGP and my 5er is about 13000# loaded. GCWR is about 21500#. Sorry I have no direct comparison with some of the new gassers!!
Bruce

2005 Ford F250, CC, SB 6.0 PSD, 3.73, Ride Rite AirBag
2005 Cedar Creek 362TBS, Trailmore
Honda EU2000i
Wife, Daughter-9, and Marty the dog

kennard04
Explorer
Explorer
BORN FREE 24' PSD wrote:
If your S-class MB diesel isn't getting at least 30-32 mpg over-the-road, there's something wrong with your diesel Mercedes-Benz motorcar. The 240D @ 28 mpg is also a little short of the 30mpg number. My '99 E300TD gets 32-34 mpg @ 75 mph over-the-road, and 28 mpg city/highway, puttering around town. t didn't start getting 34 mpg 'til I had over 60K on the odometer. ๐Ÿ™‚

Hoping my 7.3 PSD will "loosen-up," and give me a little better mileage after it gets maybe 50K+ on it too. ๐Ÿ™‚

It should loosen up and give you better gas mileage, your PSD, mine did. I went from 10 to 13 solo, from 7 to 9 or 10 towing a 3200 lb Winston West car and trailer. Probably 10K all loaded.

Here's the problem I've always had with my Mercedes Benz', and almost any vehicle for that matter. I got a BIG, HEAVY, RIGHT FOOT. I had my turbo replaced to produce more than the 120 hp the 3.0 dsl made. Then I got a 350SDL with a different turbo. And finally I had a 420SEL body with a built 5.8 liter Ford Motorsports SVT motor in it. It was a beast, but that's another story. And I drive like I stole it, but why pay all that money for a german made, luxo-sporting car and not drive it to it's capacity ?
Ken, wife-Kathleen, 6 kids, 11-25 yrs. 24' bunkhouse towed by the almighty Ford V10 in an ext length E-350.

BORN_FREE_24__P
Explorer
Explorer
kennard04 wrote:
Kennard04 My 3.0 liter Mercedes S-class, turbo diesel with half the weight, and half the engine size got 23-ish mpg, my non-turbo 240D got close to 28.
If your S-class MB diesel isn't getting at least 30-32 mpg over-the-road, there's something wrong with your diesel Mercedes-Benz motorcar. The 240D @ 28 mpg is also a little short of the 30mpg number. My '99 E300TD gets 32-34 mpg @ 75 mph over-the-road, and 28 mpg city/highway, puttering around town. t didn't start getting 34 mpg 'til I had over 60K on the odometer. ๐Ÿ™‚

The 11-12 mpg #s sound great for you guys pulling 11K-12# TTs over-the-road, at reasonable speeds.:)

Hoping my 7.3 PSD will "loosen-up," and give me a little better mileage after it gets maybe 50K+ on it too. ๐Ÿ™‚
'02 Born Free RB E450 PowerStrokeDiesel

Texas occupies about 7 percent of the lower 48. The longest straight-line distance in a general north-south direction is 801 miles, and it is 773 miles in an east-west direction.

kennard04
Explorer
Explorer
McRat wrote:
The #1 reason for getting a modern diesel is power.

There is a "diesel war" going on, and the power is going up every year. Currently the diesels are still rated at less HP than the biggest gasoline engines, but ...

You can add huge amounts of HP and TQ to the diesels cheaply and easily using tuners. No gas engine sold will match the power of a late model diesel pickup engine that has a mild tuner added to it. But there are bigger tuners than mild if you wish. Mileage is seldom affected, and usually improves if anything.

I can tow 17,000lb combined up to Flagstaff Arizona (7400ft) at 75mph uphill on cruise control in overdrive. Try that with ANY gas engine. I routinely blow by gas pickups that are towing up long grades.

Mileage? At 17k combined (truck, 22' racecar trailer, racecar, 11.5' Lance Camper, spares) was 11.5mpg from CA to KY and back. Always going 75mph or faster. A gas engine would be lucky to hit 7 mpg with that kind of load and speed.

Buy the diesel for power, and enjoy the mileage as an added perk.


Now that, I would pay to see, 17,000 towed uphill (you didn't specify a grade, I'm presuming it was more than 2%) at 75 mph, in OD with the cruise on.

I don't think anyone here is doubting diesels have much more torque, hp doesn't mean a thing.

As for tuners, check the thread of the guy who's getting beat to death by all the diesel expers around here who was rumored to have an Edge something and lost his turbo.

And finally, I will gladly take you up on the "no gas engine will match the power of a diesel with a mild tuner" challenge. Loser pays all the expenses that I incur 'tuning' my engine OK ?
Ken, wife-Kathleen, 6 kids, 11-25 yrs. 24' bunkhouse towed by the almighty Ford V10 in an ext length E-350.

McRat
Explorer
Explorer
The #1 reason for getting a modern diesel is power.

There is a "diesel war" going on, and the power is going up every year. Currently the diesels are still rated at less HP than the biggest gasoline engines, but ...

You can add huge amounts of HP and TQ to the diesels cheaply and easily using tuners. No gas engine sold will match the power of a late model diesel pickup engine that has a mild tuner added to it. But there are bigger tuners than mild if you wish. Mileage is seldom affected, and usually improves if anything.

I can tow 17,000lb combined up to Flagstaff Arizona (7400ft) at 75mph uphill on cruise control in overdrive. Try that with ANY gas engine. I routinely blow by gas pickups that are towing up long grades.

Mileage? At 17k combined (truck, 22' racecar trailer, racecar, 11.5' Lance Camper, spares) was 11.5mpg from CA to KY and back. Always going 75mph or faster. A gas engine would be lucky to hit 7 mpg with that kind of load and speed.

Buy the diesel for power, and enjoy the mileage as an added perk.

bluenote
Explorer
Explorer
kennard04 wrote:
I think that the mileage you're getting is the exception, not the rule.

Based on my experience in talking with other diesel owner's and a majority of those who post mileage figures on the discussion forums, I believe that your experience was the exception to the rule. I've found the key to getting the best mileage out of my diesel is to keep it at reasonable RPM's. Those who drive in the same manner (particularly when towing) report similar mileage to my experience.
2001 Silverado 2500HD LS CC/SB Duramax/Allison Indigo Blue
2004 Cedar Creek 31LBHBS 5er
Our Team
Rallies Attended: 3ยฝ

kennard04
Explorer
Explorer
bluenote wrote:
Well Kennard, here's another one for you then...

We just pulled our 5er up to it's summer spot with the truck in our signature (GCW of around 18K). Traveling 62-63 MPH, we got 12.2 MPG (calculated at fill-up, not trip computer). That's with 3.73 rear gears, but a displacement of over a half liter more than the PSD you are claiming figures on. For MOST diesel owner's, the only way one gets the mileage you're claiming is if you are running it fast all the time.


Well that's great then if you're getting 12.2 mpg towing 11-12K of trailer. I guess I must have been doing something wrong with all my diesels, I dunno. I think that the mileage you're getting is the exception, not the rule. But I'm glad you're doing so well with mileage, it's the reason I bought most of my diesels. Happy towing, Ken
Ken, wife-Kathleen, 6 kids, 11-25 yrs. 24' bunkhouse towed by the almighty Ford V10 in an ext length E-350.

bluenote
Explorer
Explorer
Well Kennard, here's another one for you then...

We just pulled our 5er up to it's summer spot with the truck in our signature (GCW of around 18K). Traveling 62-63 MPH, we got 12.2 MPG (calculated at fill-up, not trip computer). That's with 3.73 rear gears, but a displacement of over a half liter more than the PSD you are claiming figures on. For MOST diesel owner's, the only way one gets the mileage you're claiming is if you are running it fast all the time.
2001 Silverado 2500HD LS CC/SB Duramax/Allison Indigo Blue
2004 Cedar Creek 31LBHBS 5er
Our Team
Rallies Attended: 3ยฝ

Chris3
Explorer
Explorer
I started keeping mileage records in a Palm IIIex at 7720 miles and now have 35770 miles on the truck (I know I drive a lot - NOT!). Average mileage for those miles is 14.7. I have towed the snowmobile trailer or 5th wheel for more than half of those miles. I have never been under 10 towing. Towed a 8K 5er until last June and now a 11.25K 5er. New one seems to roll down the road easier that the old Terry that had square corners, and mileage has continued to improve over time and mods to the truck. Chris
My Rig
2001.5 2500 STD CAB AUTO SLT 4x4, CTD 4:10's, Bomb'd to Tow
2005 Cardinal 29WBLX.

kennard04
Explorer
Explorer
Chris wrote:
Well hate to tell you, but I get similar milage towing a similar size 5er with my 2001. Empty I only get a max of around 18-19, but I have an auto tranny and 4:10's. Chris


Why would you hate to tell me ? I don't get it, why would I be mad at someone getting great mileage ?

The 6.0 PSD with very comparable cubic inches and power ratings are getting 12-15 empty, and 8-11 towing. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here in regards to mpg, it just sounds like alot of mileage for 18,000 pounds of weight, trailer and truck.
Ken, wife-Kathleen, 6 kids, 11-25 yrs. 24' bunkhouse towed by the almighty Ford V10 in an ext length E-350.

Chris3
Explorer
Explorer
"Wow, that's compact car mileage, pretty incredible, especially towing. 12.5 pulling a 11,200 pound fiver ? I'd have to guess that's a world record, but I've heard guys talking about mileage like this. Never seen it, but I've heard guys talk about it."

Well hate to tell you, but I get similar milage towing a similar size 5er with my 2001. Empty I only get a max of around 18-19, but I have an auto tranny and 4:10's. Chris
My Rig
2001.5 2500 STD CAB AUTO SLT 4x4, CTD 4:10's, Bomb'd to Tow
2005 Cardinal 29WBLX.

kennard04
Explorer
Explorer
JIMNLIN wrote:
Kennard04 My Cummins gets 21-23 mpg 110 mile a day work commute, tank after tank. Also is averaging 12.5 mpg pulling a 11200lb 5er. I haven't seen a big gasser with that kind of mpgs. All pencil figures.
JIM


Wow, that's compact car mileage, pretty incredible, especially towing. 12.5 pulling a 11,200 pound fiver ? I'd have to guess that's a world record, but I've heard guys talking about mileage like this. Never seen it, but I've heard guys talk about it. My 3.0 liter Mercedes S-class, turbo diesel with half the weight, and half the engine size got 23-ish mpg, my non-turbo 240D got close to 28. But not one of my pick-up diesels ever, ever, ever got anywhere close to your mileage, not the Cummins, not any of the Navistars. Good for you if you are.
Ken, wife-Kathleen, 6 kids, 11-25 yrs. 24' bunkhouse towed by the almighty Ford V10 in an ext length E-350.

JIMNLIN
Explorer
Explorer
Kennard04 .....The '03-'05 Cummins has a 7500/15000 oil change schedual at 12 qt. Oil filters are 9 dollars, air filters are 15 dollars and fuel filters are 12 dollars. All Fleetguard filters. There is no water seperator/filters on these engines. 26 dollars for oil change with Fleetguard/Rotella 15w/40
Idling is not good on and big engine especially a gasser. The newer diesels do just fine when idleing.
I have 46000 mi on my diesel and am 3310 dollars ahead of a gasser. A diesel has much higher resale than big gasser.
Diesels and gassers get the same milage ?? My Cummins gets 21-23 mpg 110 mile a day work commute, tank after tank. Also is averaging 12.5 mpg pulling a 11200lb 5er. I haven't seen a big gasser with that kind of mpgs. All pencil figures.
Truck falling apart after 250,000 mi ?? There are several million mile Cummins and a few Fords that are still working and very little replacement of parts for that kind of milage. They ain't falling apart.
For my use the Cummins is just cheaper to maintain and operate than a big gasser. In 25-28000 more miles I will have saved the initial cost of the diesel plus its resale is higher than a big gasser so I'm money ahead with the Cummins. I just couldn't afford to buy/drive a big gasser.......JIM
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

kennard04
Explorer
Explorer
Diesel maintenance is a little more expensive, more oil, higher cost oil filters, water separators, fuel filters, etc. But there are no spark plugs, spark plug wires, etc to buy so it's probably fairly even.

A diesel needs to come up to temp before it's used hard, and short trips to and from the store are bad news for a diesel. It used to be that everyone idled their diesels if it meant having to shut it down for a short period. But now the excess fuel washes the oil off the cylinder walls so it's not good to idle.

For alot of heavy towing, or full timing a diesel seems to be the better investment, but it will take some time to realize that extra up front cost, maybe 150,000 miles depending on the difference in fuel costs.

Most folks never keep a TV long enough to realize any savings in their diesel truck. Most folks never tow enough to realize any savings in their diesel truck. Most folks are not aware of the extra cool down period a hot turbo needs. Most folks are not aware that the extra weight of the diesel engine reduces GCWR. Most folks get about the same mpg solo in their diesel as gas owners do, some get the same towing as gas owners do.

You can't drive a diesel like you can your Camry, this isn't a bad thing, but it is the truth.

And after your diesel has gone 250,000 miles, and it should, but your truck has fallen apart around you, then what ? Diesels have lots of torque, torque is twist, rear ends, drivelines all wear from torque being applied. Front ends wear from having to try and swing weight that wants to go straight around a corner, and springs wear from supporting the weight of the front end after repeated bounces, diesels weigh more than gas engines so this wear is accelerated somewhat.

Lots of torque at low rpms are good, diesels do that well but the torque may be peak at 2000 prm while the hp peak is at 3500 rpm where torque is much less. Gas motors make torque at a higher rpm AND make hp at a higher rpm, but you have to get the motor to the higher rpm to be able to use it. Stop lights with a heavy fifth wheel are better with a diesel. Modern, fuel efficient, low emissions gas motors have come a long way, just as diesels motors have.

So it really comes down to what you are requiring your tow vehicle to do. For big, heavy loads that you tow alot, a diesel is the choice. But for 90% of us who tow occasionally and trade our trucks in every 3-6 years, the gas engine is more logical.

My trailer is not huge, it's 24'. We plan on going to 28-35 sometime soon as the kids are much larger now. But we will still be around 10-12K which will still get us over the top of the mountains just as fast as the diesels. The tow rating on the big gas motors now is similar to what was only diesel territory until just recently. Will a 460 ft lb gas motor beat a 600 ft lb diesel with a 20K fiver on it over a mountain top ? No, probably not, but for us, probably the majority of the towing population, we don't tow a condo on wheels. I've owned lots of diesels, turbo, DI, non-IDI, turbo kits, I like them, but they do have drawbacks, as do gas engines.
Ken, wife-Kathleen, 6 kids, 11-25 yrs. 24' bunkhouse towed by the almighty Ford V10 in an ext length E-350.

Libitanarius
Explorer
Explorer
We just got back from a trip to Estes Park, Colorado and found that our new Dodge 3500 with the Cummins in it (pulling a 10,000 lb. 5er) easily out-performed our new Excursion with the V-10 (pulling a 5,000 lb. TT) when it came to mountain driving! In fact, there was hands down, no comparison! Our Excursion performs very well but for towing, you can't beat the torque and power of a diesel engine. (IMHO) :B
Larry & Crew :B
2005 KZ-Durango 285RLX2 - "Home Sweet Camper!"
2004 Dodge 3500 4X4 Quad-Cab LongBox Cummins Turbo Diesel

"If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something!" :B