Difference between 2500hd and 3500 SRW

wintersun wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
The 2013 Ford F350 has a heavier rear axle, an extra leaf spring and 3.5 inch spacer block that the 250 doesn't. I think it is almost criminal that the manufactures market the 3/4 ton diesels. They are almost identical to the 1 ton SRW yet they lack the ability to carry any payload. People end up buying a diesel with the idea that they have gotten themselves a tow vehicle only to find out later that it can't handle anymore payload than their old half ton could.

In terms of towing the capacity of the 3/4 and 1-ton trucks are the same with SRW. It is only by going to DRW that the towing capacity increases. There are GM 2500HD trucks with higher payload ratings than the 3500HD trucks for the same year. Just having a crew cab instead of a regular cab lowers the payload capacity from the manufacturer by more than 700 lbs. for otherwise identical trucks. Same thing happens with the GM trucks when they come from the factory with 20" rims and "offroad" tires with a 1745 load capacity.

With the current GM trucks the only difference between the 2500HD and the 3500HD is the extra set of leaf springs on the 1-ton and 4% larger rear disc rotors. Now with the 2013 Ram trucks the 1-ton trucks got a much stronger frame that is not used for the 3/4 ton trucks but unless someone is towing more than 15,000 lbs. it is not going to be important one way or the other.

The 3/4 ton diesels may be rated for towing a 17500 lb fiver but around here every 2500 hd diesel or F250 diesel on the road is a crew cab 4x4 and hasn't got enough payload built into gvwr to pull more than a 7500 lb trailer. My point is that people generally buy a hd diesel power train so they can haul something - why limit the truck to being adequate for towing no more than a tent trailer by neglecting to put a leaf spring under the rear axle?

4x4ord wrote:
The 2013 Ford F350 has a heavier rear axle, an extra leaf spring and 3.5 inch spacer block that the 250 doesn't. I think it is almost criminal that the manufactures market the 3/4 ton diesels. They are almost identical to the 1 ton SRW yet they lack the ability to carry any payload. People end up buying a diesel with the idea that they have gotten themselves a tow vehicle only to find out later that it can't handle anymore payload than their old half ton could.

In terms of towing the capacity of the 3/4 and 1-ton trucks are the same with SRW. It is only by going to DRW that the towing capacity increases. There are GM 2500HD trucks with higher payload ratings than the 3500HD trucks for the same year. Just having a crew cab instead of a regular cab lowers the payload capacity from the manufacturer by more than 700 lbs. for otherwise identical trucks. Same thing happens with the GM trucks when they come from the factory with 20" rims and "offroad" tires with a 1745 load capacity.

With the current GM trucks the only difference between the 2500HD and the 3500HD is the extra set of leaf springs on the 1-ton and 4% larger rear disc rotors. Now with the 2013 Ram trucks the 1-ton trucks got a much stronger frame that is not used for the 3/4 ton trucks but unless someone is towing more than 15,000 lbs. it is not going to be important one way or the other.

transamz9 wrote:

Miles Away wrote:

travelnutz wrote:
Miles Away,

Wrong! You are not a commercial carrier or towing/carrying for business or financial compensation.

Please note that my post clearly stated OEM components and also airbags are approved as are elastic support enhancements and steel spring leafs/overloads.

Travelnutz:
WRONG? Having spent my carrier as a traffic homicide investigator, accident re-constructionist and insurance investigator, I can tell you with some authority that no matter what kind of parts you use and how good your intentions and mechanical skill package are, if the vehicle was not manufactured for the extra weight, or re-certified by the DOT after the proper modifications were made, it legally remains what it was when it left the factory. The fact that the vehicle in question is not in commercial service has nothing to do with the liability issue. If your insurance company wants to bail on you in the face of a catastrophic loss because your vehicle was not certified for the upgraded weight, you could be left holding the bag alone. The point of my post was to simply say, don't go blindly down a path without first having looked at the possible consequences.

And how hard is it to have it changed at the DOT? It's not. You call your Sheriff and tell him you have built a vehicle and need to get it certified. He comes out and makes sure it's not stolen, makes sure it has all the required equipment for highway use and it's paper work from there. You tell him what you built it for weight wise.I have done it many times on trailers also. If it's commercial it will have to have the weight tags listed on the door. (This is in Ky)

OIg the wt tags on the door are like they are here in Washington, they can be found at your local Napa or ANY place that has stick on numbers, at the limit your are registered for. Here in wa st, one buys a minimum wt tag of 1.5times the empty tare of the truck as finished! so a complete rig like a pickup, the manufacture supplies a tare tag, then you take ot to the DOL, they look at that tag, and set your gvw at 1.5 times to the next higher ton! so a 7000 empty truck, will be 10500 or 12K of license! Be it having an 8600-9900 door tag as many SW rigs have, or in the case of my dually an 11400 door tag. I am actually registered at 14K, along with being legal in this state to 14K gvw, not the 11400 on the door tag.

So with this all in mind.......one does need to know what the licensing and registration laws and codes are in the state you live in, and or will travel thru to know what your actual legal wts will be. If I really wanted to, I could license and run down the road with my dually 3500 at about 31K lbs, not that I would recomend it, I get 20K on the rear axel, front would be 600 lbs per inch width of tires, or 9.5" x 600 x 2 tires or about 11K on the front! plus the 20K ont he rear, as long as I had a 32K plate. The fun part of this is, the LEO that pulls me over, WILL get me off the road, as this would be dangerous, but weight would not be the killer. Probably lack of braking or some other issue frankly!

Marty

Miles Away wrote:

travelnutz wrote:
Miles Away,

Wrong! You are not a commercial carrier or towing/carrying for business or financial compensation.

Please note that my post clearly stated OEM components and also airbags are approved as are elastic support enhancements and steel spring leafs/overloads.

Travelnutz:
WRONG? Having spent my carrier as a traffic homicide investigator, accident re-constructionist and insurance investigator, I can tell you with some authority that no matter what kind of parts you use and how good your intentions and mechanical skill package are, if the vehicle was not manufactured for the extra weight, or re-certified by the DOT after the proper modifications were made, it legally remains what it was when it left the factory. The fact that the vehicle in question is not in commercial service has nothing to do with the liability issue. If your insurance company wants to bail on you in the face of a catastrophic loss because your vehicle was not certified for the upgraded weight, you could be left holding the bag alone. The point of my post was to simply say, don't go blindly down a path without first having looked at the possible consequences.

And how hard is it to have it changed at the DOT? It's not. You call your Sheriff and tell him you have built a vehicle and need to get it certified. He comes out and makes sure it's not stolen, makes sure it has all the required equipment for highway use and it's paper work from there. You tell him what you built it for weight wise.I have done it many times on trailers also. If it's commercial it will have to have the weight tags listed on the door. (This is in Ky)

bmanning wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
The 2013 Ford F350 has a heavier rear axle, an extra leaf spring and 3.5 inch spacer block that the 250 doesn't. I think it is almost criminal that the manufactures market the 3/4 ton diesels. They are almost identical to the 1 ton SRW yet they lack the ability to carry any payload. People end up buying a diesel with the idea that they have gotten themselves a tow vehicle only to find out later that it can't handle anymore payload than their old half ton could.

My 2002 crew cab 4x4 F250 7.3L diesel had an 8800lb GVW and weighed just around ~7400lb, giving me a whopping 1400lb payload on a truck that had a GCWR of 20,000lb!

By comparison, my 2008 crew/4x F250 5.4L gives me 2400lb+ of payload...not Herculean by any measure but a full half-ton more than my 2002.

Now, if I could drop a 7.3L into my 2008 chassis I'd have the best of both worlds, LOL.

By the time I have a full tank of fuel, hitch and family loaded in my F350 SRW my truck weighs in at 9140 lbs. (we still camp with 4 of our kids; so 2 in the front and 4 in the back) If it were a 3/4 ton it might weigh 100 lbs less so the 3/4 ton Ford diesel would be all set for a pin weight of 960 lbs. People buy a big new Ford diesel (and I don't think the new Ram or Chevy 3/4 tons are much different) thinking they can tow something yet the reality of it is that the 3/4 ton is limited by payload to a 5000 lb 5'ver unless the wife and kids drive separate in which case you still only have pay load for a 7500 lb 5'ver - marketing the 3/4 ton diesel is just plain stupid. Why not call the SRW 1ton a 3/4 ton and make the 1 ton a dually.

Miles Away,

Per your post saying that I was wrong, I called my insurance agent's district manager and my personal lawyer and both gave the same answers. They said that state laws vary as some states are no fault and others are not. You're in Tennessee and Tennessee is NOT a no fault state and I live in Michigan which is a no fault state. It was clearly stated to me by both of them. Overweight for non-commercial vehicles does NOT apply in no fault states. However, not having DOT safety equipment such as brake lights, turn signals, legal running lights, a horn, etc that are working properly, and being under the DOT max of 26,000 lbs gross non-commercial/CDL etc are not covered by no fault systems.

I'm going to leave it right there as it does no good to discuss the fringe rogue possibilities an unscrupulous lawyer will try to bring a lawsuit with and such is not allowed on this forum.

4x4ord wrote:
The 2013 Ford F350 has a heavier rear axle, an extra leaf spring and 3.5 inch spacer block that the 250 doesn't. I think it is almost criminal that the manufactures market the 3/4 ton diesels. They are almost identical to the 1 ton SRW yet they lack the ability to carry any payload. People end up buying a diesel with the idea that they have gotten themselves a tow vehicle only to find out later that it can't handle anymore payload than their old half ton could.

My 2002 crew cab 4x4 F250 7.3L diesel had an 8800lb GVW and weighed just around ~7400lb, giving me a whopping 1400lb payload on a truck that had a GCWR of 20,000lb!

By comparison, my 2008 crew/4x F250 5.4L gives me 2400lb+ of payload...not Herculean by any measure but a full half-ton more than my 2002.

Now, if I could drop a 7.3L into my 2008 chassis I'd have the best of both worlds, LOL.

travelnutz wrote:
Miles Away,

Wrong! You are not a commercial carrier or towing/carrying for business or financial compensation.

Please note that my post clearly stated OEM components and also airbags are approved as are elastic support enhancements and steel spring leafs/overloads.

Travelnutz:
WRONG? Having spent my carrier as a traffic homicide investigator, accident re-constructionist and insurance investigator, I can tell you with some authority that no matter what kind of parts you use and how good your intentions and mechanical skill package are, if the vehicle was not manufactured for the extra weight, or re-certified by the DOT after the proper modifications were made, it legally remains what it was when it left the factory. The fact that the vehicle in question is not in commercial service has nothing to do with the liability issue. If your insurance company wants to bail on you in the face of a catastrophic loss because your vehicle was not certified for the upgraded weight, you could be left holding the bag alone. The point of my post was to simply say, don't go blindly down a path without first having looked at the possible consequences.

I know on my 2012 the difference between 2500 and my 3500 is a helper spring on the rear suspension. That's it.

The 2013 Ford F350 has a heavier rear axle, an extra leaf spring and 3.5 inch spacer block that the 250 doesn't. I think it is almost criminal that the manufactures market the 3/4 ton diesels. They are almost identical to the 1 ton SRW yet they lack the ability to carry any payload. People end up buying a diesel with the idea that they have gotten themselves a tow vehicle only to find out later that it can't handle anymore payload than their old half ton could.