EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks

[thomas201]

So much wheel spinning on EVs, what if they are not the right path forward? The biggest problem with renewable power and EVs is storage, the second is storage, and the third is storage. Another path is carbon capture from the atmosphere (using amine scrubbing like nuclear subs and carbon dioxide from natural gas) then splitting hydrogen from water, followed by building whatever hydrocarbon you need.

The US Navy is hard at work on this project, since it avoids storage of large amounts of jet fuel, and the difficult job of resupply of jet fuel at sea to the carriers. After all fire kills ships. The Fords were built with a very large excess electric generation capacity for this reason and many others.

Porsche now has a pilot project running in South America, Porsche syn fuel

This will work wherever you have cheap electricity and water. The products are put right into refinery feeds. No need to rebuild the approximately 1.5 Billion cars in the world. Solves storage, no worry about hydrogen embrittlement, recycles carbon dioxide, we use the existing liquid fuel distribution system. Transparent to the car/truck owner.

[nickthehunter]

I don't think anyone assumes EV's are going away. However, I think a lot of people believe EV's are not going to be the panacea that some people assume they will be.

[Grit_dog]

^No matter how you try to put the Cali spin on it, no one, myself included, said or even alluded to EVs fading away. Nor minimized or assumed GMs path forward with EVs.
But merely stated that it if a Company (GM in this case) is supposedly dropping almost a billion $ (idk if that’s the right number anymore than you or anyone short of a Company employee who knows the actual financials and not just the press releases) to develop a new line of big ICE engines in the face of electrification expanding relatively rapidly combined with the political pressure to do so, WITH a pretty powerful and efficient line that would require no $ besides just continue pumping them out, then apparently any Real plans to eliminate ICE in light/med duty lines is wholly not a reality.

But good try….

[time2roll]

Grit dog wrote:

time2roll wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Well GM just sunk a boatload of $ into the next gen V8 engine and about 10% of that boatload into EVs….
Which has nothing to do with the yuppie Lightning guy video, but whatever.

Maybe the V8 remake is getting a bit too expensive.
The 10% spent on an EV might make the same sales and profit as the boatload spent on continuing the V8.

You know I thought about that too. Then I realized that as a for profit company, it is highly likely that they are trying to maximize profit from both sectors and believe the $ invested to be appropriate for the expected return. No sense in nonsensical speculating as you’ve done.

Yes it is all speculation. My take is that a person should not assume that a 10x expenditure is resulting in 10x the vehicles and profit.

My post is about perspective. So as not to assume GM is seemingly doing very little in the EV space just because there is an announcement on the capital being spent is much lower.

Otherwise it is easy to assume EVs will fade away and I believe that is just wishful thinking for many people and industries.

[ppine]

Now I have just heard about using ammonia to power cars and trucks for the first time. There are a lot of smart people working on energy solutions in the US. EVs might be okay, but the real solutions are probably out there in the formative stages.

I have a certain warm fuzzy feeling that diesel technology will still be relevant well after I am gone.

[Grit_dog]

time2roll wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Well GM just sunk a boatload of $ into the next gen V8 engine and about 10% of that boatload into EVs….
Which has nothing to do with the yuppie Lightning guy video, but whatever.

Maybe the V8 remake is getting a bit too expensive.
The 10% spent on an EV might make the same sales and profit as the boatload spent on continuing the V8.

You know I thought about that too. Then I realized that as a for profit company, it is highly likely that they are trying to maximize profit from both sectors and believe the $ invested to be appropriate for the expected return. No sense in nonsensical speculating as you’ve done.

[time2roll]

Grit dog wrote:
Well GM just sunk a boatload of $ into the next gen V8 engine and about 10% of that boatload into EVs….
Which has nothing to do with the yuppie Lightning guy video, but whatever.

Maybe the V8 remake is getting a bit too expensive.
The 10% spent on an EV might make the same sales and profit as the boatload spent on continuing the V8.

[Grit_dog]

Starting to smell like rotten tuna or leftovers from 8.1van that were left in the fridge for 3 weeks and got moldy…..
Btw wonder where he took off too?
Didn’t think aboot it until now. But I was totally right!! He WAS only here to spam us with Tesla garbage. Right under the mods noses for years!! (Now that’s funny,just act old weird and senile and your success spamming % goes thru the roof! It’s genus on his part actually.)

Since the sooper dooper Tesla thread got shut down he’s been gone!

[pianotuna]

750 miles of range in a tesla real life.

600 miles claimed.

https://one.ai/batteries/gemini?fbclid=IwAR2bZknL9pr7Bmeo_53ENcu5j_r2iL2o2cREXM-EC5QbszMty5lYTd3BbpI

[Grit_dog]

Well GM just sunk a boatload of $ into the next gen V8 engine and about 10% of that boatload into EVs….
Which has nothing to do with the yuppie Lightning guy video, but whatever.

[Grit_dog]

Danger Don wrote:
This is a special thread.

I know you just joined here. But there are a lot of special threads….lol.
Like why it would be a good idea to try to use a $90k pickup as an off grid setup….
Just for the clicks man. Gotta be an influencer these days to hang w the cool kids! Lol

[Danger_Don]

This is a special thread.

[Tvov]

free radical wrote:
Ford lighning ev off grid solar battery on wheels

https://youtu.be/ATyBdJic8-o

Well, that video did not end like I thought! Some good thoughts on his part (like make "normal" cars that happen to be electric), and too bad about his issues... and there were a lot, did not make the Lightning look good, lol!

[free_radical]

Ford lighning ev off grid solar battery on wheels

https://youtu.be/ATyBdJic8-o

[blt2ski]

ppine wrote:
I see no plan or intent to replace gas engines with EVs. Okay maybe in California. EVs are a tool in the tool box. They seem best suited for commuter vehicles in urban environments. Now there are conversion kits to power classic cars and sports cars with electric motors. EVs may just be a stepping stone to hydrogen powered cars or the next tech after that.

Diesel engines deserve some special mention, but don't seem to get much appreciation in the US by law makers. In Europe over half the cars run on diesel. All of the trucks. There are diesel lawn mowers and outboard motors most places outside the US. Diesel can be converted to hydrogen. They can run on peanut oil, waste cooking oil, fuel from algae and fuel from wood. Diesel tech will be around for a long time.

We are likely to have a mix of power sources for transportation for the next 20 years or so until one stands out and gets promoted by the government.

Boats are coming out with DC power in them too.
I have seen multitudes of diesel lawnmowers etc in the 40 years in that industry. Like a lot of things, is there an ROI on extra cost. Heavier motor, so wider tires are needed to bridge loads across soft surfaces....issues that vehicle owners have to deal with.

I personally don't see the issue of having more than one power option for what we use. If it makes cents to use electric, use it, diesel or gas makes cents, use it. I would prefer the government(s) to not push a given fuel use for vehicles. Only to push best for your needs to be as clean from an environmental standpoint for how you drive etc.

My 02

Marty

[map40]

stsmark wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
@benny37, I have to laugh. I understand fully what body panel alignment is as well.
The funny part is while I’ve never driven a Tesla, you can’t swing a dead cat around here without hitting (seeing) one.
I have never once looked at one and thought, ugh that door gap is something only a mother could love….
Idk, pretty weak argument imo.
Coming from someone like me who’s decidedly pro dead dinosaurs vehicles, if one has to say stupid things to try to support their decision or argument, it’s time to pick another fight….

Grit agreed, I live in Tesla heaven, CA Wine Country. On a daily basis I see more of them now than say Camrys. In my neighborhood of 220 homes there are at least a dozen now 80% Model Ys.
There is a 12 stall Supercharger in the shopping center right outside the entrance to our development. Average 4 cars there at a time. There is no towing accessible stall so that will be entertaining when it comes about. I can’t recall ever seeing a Tesla towing anything around here though. Being a manual wheelchair user I thought it was cool they have an Accessible stall. The bummer is I have never seen a more cheated spot.
I was 40 year Maintenance Tech on Bizjets so I have a good eye for detail and I think the panel gap deal is over blown. Maybe early on.
I will say the only Tesla I’ve ever seen on a tow truck was Model X with one of the Falcon doors half open.

Let me explain my point of view on the matter. The point is not the panel gap, it is the reason why there is a panel gap. It simply talks about how good the dimensional control of the stamping process and the designs is. Fit & finish simply tell you how well everything comes toghether. For us, the guys forged in the automotive industry, that is the tell sign of a vehicle that was design with an inmature process.
Normally you make the assumption that the rest of the systems have the same issue, and it shows in the statistics. Testa is the leader in Electric vehicles technology and software, but the rest of the vehicle is 3 to 4 times worse than the industry average, showing the exact problem that the "big gaps" insinuate: inmature design and process.
The other automakers don't have such as many electrical, suspension, doors, or lights issues because they have been building vehicles for a long time.
The best example is the Nissan Leaf. The car is bullet-proof. Unbeatable from every angle, except the battery technology. Due to lack of cooling, unpropperly used batteries would significantly degrade rapidly. (And most people are unaware on how to use it). Tesla has a great battery system in comparison.
Today you can find Leafs in Europe with 300K miles stil with original everything, exccept the battery.