Ford Explore recall.

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

NOT BASHING FORD HERE. This is serious!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ford-recall-idUSKBN1AE029

[transamz9]

FishOnOne wrote:

EstorilM wrote:

mich800 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:


You are wrong. We have a 2016 Chrysler 200s loaded out and it is nowhere that quality of our truck. It's not even as good of quality as my previous 2013 or the 2005 I still have.

That has nothing to do with Ram vs Chrysler/Dodge quality. That is a specific vehicle. And you are correct, the quality of the 200 was not that good relative to its competitors. There is a reason that vehicle was dropped.

I think you're sadly mistaken here. One of the primary reasons for going independent was to allow them to focus on their money-makers (AKA TRUCKS & fleet, construction - ProMaster, vans, etc) and compete head-to-head with Ford for market dominance. Since that move, RAM has really come into its own.

Say what you will about their quality as a whole (which I still disagree with you about) but I don't think anyone will argue that the quality of their truck lineup has increased dramatically compared to what it was pre-'13 or whatever it was.

I don't really know what we're even arguing about here. They went from cheap snap-off-in-your-hand parts, horrible fit and finish, nasty NVH / ride quality, etc.. to near-luxury-sedan specs on all fronts. The Laramie Longhorns were always nice, but the bump from the '11-12 Laramie Longhorns to the '13+ is night and day. That leather-stitched dash and legit chrome belt buckles in the floor mats blew me away - I was driving a Range Rover Sport at the time and the "truck" made it look like a beater. 🙂

Some you guys are getting Quality and Luxury confused.

No, nothing to do with luxury. The 200 didn't come in a trim package that even comes close to the trim package of my truck. What I'm talking about is fit of doors. How they close. Sun roof trim. How the dash fits together. Rattles.

[Lessmore]

I thought this thread was about Ford Explorer recalls, not about how FCA is doing/not doing. 😉

[FishOnOne]

EstorilM wrote:

mich800 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:


You are wrong. We have a 2016 Chrysler 200s loaded out and it is nowhere that quality of our truck. It's not even as good of quality as my previous 2013 or the 2005 I still have.

That has nothing to do with Ram vs Chrysler/Dodge quality. That is a specific vehicle. And you are correct, the quality of the 200 was not that good relative to its competitors. There is a reason that vehicle was dropped.

I think you're sadly mistaken here. One of the primary reasons for going independent was to allow them to focus on their money-makers (AKA TRUCKS & fleet, construction - ProMaster, vans, etc) and compete head-to-head with Ford for market dominance. Since that move, RAM has really come into its own.

Say what you will about their quality as a whole (which I still disagree with you about) but I don't think anyone will argue that the quality of their truck lineup has increased dramatically compared to what it was pre-'13 or whatever it was.

I don't really know what we're even arguing about here. They went from cheap snap-off-in-your-hand parts, horrible fit and finish, nasty NVH / ride quality, etc.. to near-luxury-sedan specs on all fronts. The Laramie Longhorns were always nice, but the bump from the '11-12 Laramie Longhorns to the '13+ is night and day. That leather-stitched dash and legit chrome belt buckles in the floor mats blew me away - I was driving a Range Rover Sport at the time and the "truck" made it look like a beater. 🙂

Some you guys are getting Quality and Luxury confused.

[EstorilM]

mich800 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:


You are wrong. We have a 2016 Chrysler 200s loaded out and it is nowhere that quality of our truck. It's not even as good of quality as my previous 2013 or the 2005 I still have.

That has nothing to do with Ram vs Chrysler/Dodge quality. That is a specific vehicle. And you are correct, the quality of the 200 was not that good relative to its competitors. There is a reason that vehicle was dropped.

I think you're sadly mistaken here. One of the primary reasons for going independent was to allow them to focus on their money-makers (AKA TRUCKS & fleet, construction - ProMaster, vans, etc) and compete head-to-head with Ford for market dominance. Since that move, RAM has really come into its own.

Say what you will about their quality as a whole (which I still disagree with you about) but I don't think anyone will argue that the quality of their truck lineup has increased dramatically compared to what it was pre-'13 or whatever it was.

I don't really know what we're even arguing about here. They went from cheap snap-off-in-your-hand parts, horrible fit and finish, nasty NVH / ride quality, etc.. to near-luxury-sedan specs on all fronts. The Laramie Longhorns were always nice, but the bump from the '11-12 Laramie Longhorns to the '13+ is night and day. That leather-stitched dash and legit chrome belt buckles in the floor mats blew me away - I was driving a Range Rover Sport at the time and the "truck" made it look like a beater. 🙂

[FishOnOne]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

mich800 wrote:

That has nothing to do with Ram vs Chrysler/Dodge quality. That is a specific vehicle. And you are correct, the quality of the 200 was not that good relative to its competitors. There is a reason that vehicle was dropped.

Our 200 was one of the best cars we have owned and never had a single warranty claim in the three years we owned it.

The reason the 200, Patriot and the Dart were phased out is because Sergio will not build a new plant, anywhere! If someone is telling you different I would love to see some facts and not he said she said BS.

The Ram 1500 is going to the Sterling Heights plant (the old 200 plant) to be followed by the HD trucks. The Warren plant will be rebuilt and retooled to build the new Jeep Wagoner and over flow for the trucks. BTW the Saltillo Assembly Plant will still build the HD truck over flow until 2020 when a new product will be put in there.

The Jeep Cherokee is going to the Belvedere plant (the old Patriot, Compass and the Dart plant) to make room in Toledo to build the new Jeep pickup.

Look to see FCA bring back small and midsize cars sometime around 2020/2022 from what is going around the rumor mill. Most likely Fiat based and built in Mexico.

Don

I predicted the 200 would have a short run a few years ago for you.... Remember when I said it's external design features reminded me of the Olds Aurora!

Bottom line Chrysler didn't sell enough Dart's and 200's to justify when they need the extra capacity for other products so it was an easy decision for Sergio to axe these products.

Seen this coming a country mile!

[Lessmore]

slapshot12 wrote:

Tvov wrote:
Around me, beside the Explorers, Chevy Tahoes are used by a lot of police / emergency departments. I wonder if other SUV type vehicles have the same issues?

We use Chevy Tahoe's, from 2013-2017, and have no similar issues. I have a '15 PPV Tahoe and all of our interior mods (computer mount, cage, gun racks, etc) are all mounted to existing mounts in the cabin. We don't drill extra holes in the floor. Most of the current police package vehicle come pre-fit with wiring, power points, and equipment already installed so we don't have to hack up the vehicle when the cop stuff is installed. Most of the aftermarket stuff, like consoles and computer mounts are designed to attach to existing mounts in the console and seat mounts.

Exactly. I said essentially the same thing earlier about police packages, but some differed with me.

[slapshot12]

Tvov wrote:
Around me, beside the Explorers, Chevy Tahoes are used by a lot of police / emergency departments. I wonder if other SUV type vehicles have the same issues?

We use Chevy Tahoe's, from 2013-2017, and have no similar issues. I have a '15 PPV Tahoe and all of our interior mods (computer mount, cage, gun racks, etc) are all mounted to existing mounts in the cabin. We don't drill extra holes in the floor. Most of the current police package vehicle come pre-fit with wiring, power points, and equipment already installed so we don't have to hack up the vehicle when the cop stuff is installed. Most of the aftermarket stuff, like consoles and computer mounts are designed to attach to existing mounts in the console and seat mounts.

My wife drives a '17 Explorer and we've had no similar issues.

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

mich800 wrote:

That has nothing to do with Ram vs Chrysler/Dodge quality. That is a specific vehicle. And you are correct, the quality of the 200 was not that good relative to its competitors. There is a reason that vehicle was dropped.

Our 200 was one of the best cars we have owned and never had a single warranty claim in the three years we owned it.

The reason the 200, Patriot and the Dart were phased out is because Sergio will not build a new plant, anywhere! If someone is telling you different I would love to see some facts and not he said she said BS.

The Ram 1500 is going to the Sterling Heights plant (the old 200 plant) to be followed by the HD trucks. The Warren plant will be rebuilt and retooled to build the new Jeep Wagoner and over flow for the trucks. BTW the Saltillo Assembly Plant will still build the HD truck over flow until 2020 when a new product will be put in there.

The Jeep Cherokee is going to the Belvedere plant (the old Patriot, Compass and the Dart plant) to make room in Toledo to build the new Jeep pickup.

Look to see FCA bring back small and midsize cars sometime around 2020/2022 from what is going around the rumor mill. Most likely Fiat based and built in Mexico.

Don

[mich800]

transamz9 wrote:


You are wrong. We have a 2016 Chrysler 200s loaded out and it is nowhere that quality of our truck. It's not even as good of quality as my previous 2013 or the 2005 I still have.

That has nothing to do with Ram vs Chrysler/Dodge quality. That is a specific vehicle. And you are correct, the quality of the 200 was not that good relative to its competitors. There is a reason that vehicle was dropped.

[thomasmnile]

This story is all the rage with local media. The Orlando ABC affiliate has been all over it since a family contacted them with their Explorer story. Family stated they had an issue with exhaust entering the vehicle and despite repeated trips to a Ford dealer, the problem persisted. Ford ultimately bought it back when legal action was threatened. FWIW, there was a class action suit settled in South Florida in May over this problem with the Explorer.

Tonight the same ABC affiliate did a followup, taking someone's Explorer to a local independent garage and a mechanic did an under body inspection. He found an incomplete or cracked exhaust system weld before the muffler and a poorly sealed body panel seams behind a rear wheel. Mechanic wouldn't outright pin the blame on what he found, but said any unsealed body penetration could certainly allow vehicle exhaust into the interior.

[transamz9]

mich800 wrote:

EstorilM wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Yep. And despite my screen name I have owned Fords all my life. I was a Mopar tech at a dealer for 20 years, hence the screen name. But the way Fords rot away and/or start to rot after 3 years has me in a Ram Megacab for my next truck!

I laughed so hard when I read your post I blew coffee out my nose. You're afraid of rot away so you're buying a Ram!.

Yep! I think you are thinking of mid 90's early 2000's Rams. The ones from the last 10 years seem to be holding up! I haven't seen any rust under those when they come in like the Fords do.
So yes.

Ever since RAM went independent from Dodge their QC has been really impressive (started a couple years before the split actually).

I have no dog in this fight, but I manage a restoration shop and have lots of experience with all vehicles (and came about a pen-stroke from buying a '14 RAM 1500 Laramie Longhorn).

They're definitely the most finely-tuned trucks out there, the approach to engineering and QC / long-term reliability / testing is very good. More like a higher-end lux car than a truck.

Too bad the nice ones are ~50k.

I really do love the IRS though - everyone thought they were crazy for introducing that a few years ago, now it's a major selling-point that others are copying. Plus it enabled them to use a modified version of the grand cherokee's active-level air suspension.

Anyways back on topic - I'm sure the explorer is a great vehicle, but I lost a lot of respect for them after copying jaguar / land rover designs almost consecutively with the explorer (range rover, range rover sport) edge (LR3 / lr4, range rover, including the lettering on the hood, signature LR "floating roof" blackout pillars, etc) and fusion (Aston Martin, Jag, headlights grill etc). I don't even think they're hiding it anymore. Maybe a little revenge for poor sales when Ford used to own jag / lr? 😉

I just don't like the car-like platform mostly. But for its current market segment and target audience, it's a great seller (always has been, always will be) and I'm sure people get a lot of bang-for-the-buck, especially with the ecoboost engine.

Ram may be its own brand now but in no way is independent from the rest of old Chrysler with respect to corporate culture, engineering, quality or otherwise. If you are seeing improvements in quality it is due to the general efforts to improve quality corporate wide. Not some change of direction because of the brand restructuring.

You are wrong. We have a 2016 Chrysler 200s loaded out and it is nowhere that quality of our truck. It's not even as good of quality as my previous 2013 or the 2005 I still have.

[mich800]

Me Again wrote:

mich800 wrote:


Ram may be its own brand now but in no way is independent from the rest of old Chrysler with respect to corporate culture, engineering, quality or otherwise. If you are seeing improvements in quality it is due to the general efforts to improve quality corporate wide. Not some change of direction because of the brand restructuring.

And you know that because why? Chris

Because I work in the industry and have friends that work at Ram, Chrysler/FCA.

[Me_Again]

mich800 wrote:


Ram may be its own brand now but in no way is independent from the rest of old Chrysler with respect to corporate culture, engineering, quality or otherwise. If you are seeing improvements in quality it is due to the general efforts to improve quality corporate wide. Not some change of direction because of the brand restructuring.

And you know that because why? Chris

[mich800]

EstorilM wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Yep. And despite my screen name I have owned Fords all my life. I was a Mopar tech at a dealer for 20 years, hence the screen name. But the way Fords rot away and/or start to rot after 3 years has me in a Ram Megacab for my next truck!

I laughed so hard when I read your post I blew coffee out my nose. You're afraid of rot away so you're buying a Ram!.

Yep! I think you are thinking of mid 90's early 2000's Rams. The ones from the last 10 years seem to be holding up! I haven't seen any rust under those when they come in like the Fords do.
So yes.

Ever since RAM went independent from Dodge their QC has been really impressive (started a couple years before the split actually).

I have no dog in this fight, but I manage a restoration shop and have lots of experience with all vehicles (and came about a pen-stroke from buying a '14 RAM 1500 Laramie Longhorn).

They're definitely the most finely-tuned trucks out there, the approach to engineering and QC / long-term reliability / testing is very good. More like a higher-end lux car than a truck.

Too bad the nice ones are ~50k.

I really do love the IRS though - everyone thought they were crazy for introducing that a few years ago, now it's a major selling-point that others are copying. Plus it enabled them to use a modified version of the grand cherokee's active-level air suspension.

Anyways back on topic - I'm sure the explorer is a great vehicle, but I lost a lot of respect for them after copying jaguar / land rover designs almost consecutively with the explorer (range rover, range rover sport) edge (LR3 / lr4, range rover, including the lettering on the hood, signature LR "floating roof" blackout pillars, etc) and fusion (Aston Martin, Jag, headlights grill etc). I don't even think they're hiding it anymore. Maybe a little revenge for poor sales when Ford used to own jag / lr? 😉

I just don't like the car-like platform mostly. But for its current market segment and target audience, it's a great seller (always has been, always will be) and I'm sure people get a lot of bang-for-the-buck, especially with the ecoboost engine.

Ram may be its own brand now but in no way is independent from the rest of old Chrysler with respect to corporate culture, engineering, quality or otherwise. If you are seeing improvements in quality it is due to the general efforts to improve quality corporate wide. Not some change of direction because of the brand restructuring.