FYI Axel Failure

[1stvee]

FYI-Has anyone had this problem? I purchased my 2011 Cruiser RV 24SD ViewFinder new. Used it about 3000 miles each year 2011 & 2012. I pulled & packed the wheel bearings each year. Jan 2013 had my local dealer pull wheels, inspect the brakes/bearings & repack bearings all 4 wheels. Near the end of a 3500 mile trip 9/12/2013 the right front bearing failed. It destroyed everything, even caught fire. After 2 days beside the road I got it patched enough to limp 150 miles to a Camping World. After 5 days of good intentions and some poor follow up. I was told a new Lippert axel could take up to 2 weeks to receive or I could stay in a hotel for another 3 or 4 days while the spindle was locally replaced. Each option was $700 plus. I called a little Trailer fabricator and repair shop about 25 miles away, Accutrak Mfg. Corp. Los Lunas, NM. The owner, Robert said he was very familiar with the Lippert axel problems. The next day for just over $500 Accutrak installed complete new Dexter axel assy. (axel hubs brakes bearings complete).
Here is a RUB. The Leppert axels under my trailer has ID Tags showing they are 2800 LB load cap. The Dexter replacement is 3500LB. Robert said he had stopped using Leppert axels a few years back, but did not elaborate. In all fairness to Lippert. Because I am clearly out of warranty I did not try to get any restitution from them. However as soon as I can recoup from the almost $2000 total cost of this failure I am going to replace the other 2800 LB Lippert axel with a 3500LB Dexter assembly.
1stvee

[gon2dadawgs]

ScottG wrote:
The Axles should definitely match. I would replace the remaining one with the same model.
As for why the bearing failed? The last person to touch it did something wrong. It was either too tight, too loose or contaminated.

I agree with this 100%. Being a machinist for....way too long....there is no reason for a bearing to fail so quickly after service. Too loose and they will load up unevenly, too tight and they will rapidly wear the hardface off and tip causing the brakes to rub at all times....there is the cause of fire. A good practice is to check hub/wheel temp when you can, an infrared thermometer works great for this.

Michael

[1stvee]

1stvee here; Before leaving Camping World to get the new Axel Assy. I had them inspect and repack all the bearings. I can only go by what they said. The Tech told me every thing looked good. No visible wear or damage. But, he was also the same one that told me the new tires they installed had 51 PSI in all 4. When they pulled the Trailer out for me to hook up and go I could see one tire noticeably low. I checked them all. 1-52 1-50 1-45 1-34. Another reason for DIY.

[69_Avion]

According to that they didn't get the axle company. That is good news. I like to see competition in suppliers.

[JJBIRISH]

Jayco254 wrote:
I have been told that Lippert bought out Dexter not too long ago, does anyone know if this true? From what I have heard about Lippert recently and in the past I sure hope not.

Why live on roomers when the information is so easily available… much of what you hear is roomers born out of rants that normally have some truth to them, but how much…

“Every Jayco trailer begins with a tubular steel frame built by a firm that specializes in RV frames.” Wonder who that might be…

Published 24 August 2011

Lippert Components, a subsidiary of Drew Industries (DW), a supplier of components for recreational vehicles (RV), has acquired the towable RV chassis and slide-out mechanism operation previously owned by Dexter Chassis Group from EA Technologies for $13.5m.

"After completing this latest acquisition, we have available cash of $10 million, no debt, and $185 million of available borrowing capacity."

[Huntindog]

I read that too. From what I have seen of my present TT which is Lippert equipped, compared to my previous TTs which were Dextern equipped.... Dexter is on a lower tier quality wise.

[Jayco254]

I have been told that Lippert bought out Dexter not too long ago, does anyone know if this true? From what I have heard about Lippert recently and in the past I sure hope not.

[JJBIRISH]

ReferDog wrote:
Say what you want about axels but until you have to deal with LIPPERT you will change your mine. They could care less about you. It may be true that they only put what is specked to them but it's still poor quality, hard to polish a turd!

I’ll be nice and just say I don’t know what you are talking about, normally I would state that differently… I say that because Lippert was always more than helpful for me and yes I have contacted them more than a few times… I don’t know and would give odds none us know what any failure rates are for any of these companies that can be attributed directly to them…

I will bet they have the largest market share and are dealing almost exclusively with someone that constantly demands the cheapest product they can get from the RV industry… and no matter what frame is under your trailer it is not over built and most likely is under built to save weight…

A friend of mine has repaired many RV frames for 3 or 4 area dealers, so many that were trade-in it’s almost scary to think people were towing these things… these frames were not all Lippert frames I can assure you…

That said I wouldn’t give them hi accolades either… while the power-coat and welds are all in great shape on my Lippert chassis I have had low preforming made in China bearings and also a cracked Chinese made equalizer and the worst bushings I have ever seen that I assume were imported from the same geographic area… and for Lipperts part I am not sure their specs are as close tolerance as they should be

[Huntindog]

69 Avion wrote:
I'm not making an assumption on anything. I'm just saying that the odds are that if the other bearings are set up fine, than the one that went bad was probably fine when it was packed and installed, especially if the bearing on the same side is checked. If two people do the work, they usually each take one side. What I wouldn't assume is that the bearing quality was 100% fine. Bearing do go bad. Cheap bearings go bad more often. I have no idea what brand bearing that they use. If it were mine, I would check the existing bearings on the old axle to find out what brand they are.
If the OP wants to save some money, he could put new Timken (or other quality bearing) on the old axle and run it for a while. I like to match axles, but in the short term it won't hurt anything on leaf springs with an equalizer. I wouldn't do that with a set of rubber torsion axles.

Sure bearings can go bad. But they usually have a little help as improper adjustment, lube etc. Even then, they don't go from perfect to failed instantly. There are many early warning signs that a mechanic should see. My shop manuals actually have pictures of bearings with these types of signs, along with a diagnosis of what type of abuse is causing the bearing degradation.

BTW, Timken is moving or maybe already has moved production to China.

China gets a bad rap, some of it deserved, but just as the Japanese grew out of their quality problems in the 60s, so will the Chinese. You might be surprised just how many Chinese bearings are in cars that don't fail.

[69_Avion]

ReferDog wrote:
Say what you want about axels but until you have to deal with LIPPERT you will change your mine. They could care less about you. It may be true that they only put what is specked to them but it's still poor quality, hard to polish a turd!

I wasn't going to go that far. LOL But, you do have a point.

The real tragedy is to look at all of their frame failures, especially on the fifth wheel trailers. I really feel for those buyers who end up with a trailer they can't even tow. I remember reading about one family who lost their home in the Great Recession and bought a fifth wheel trailer with a Lippert frame that failed. They were "down and out" and the frame failure just made things that much more difficult for them. It has to do with companies trying to save a buck. That is the bottom line. I'm not saying that this case was a bearing failure or a mechanic's mistake, but if it were mine I could figure out what it "probably" was.

[ReferDog]

Say what you want about axels but until you have to deal with LIPPERT you will change your mine. They could care less about you. It may be true that they only put what is specked to them but it's still poor quality, hard to polish a turd!

[69_Avion]

I'm not making an assumption on anything. I'm just saying that the odds are that if the other bearings are set up fine, than the one that went bad was probably fine when it was packed and installed, especially if the bearing on the same side is checked. If two people do the work, they usually each take one side. What I wouldn't assume is that the bearing quality was 100% fine. Bearing do go bad. Cheap bearings go bad more often. I have no idea what brand bearing that they use. If it were mine, I would check the existing bearings on the old axle to find out what brand they are.
If the OP wants to save some money, he could put new Timken (or other quality bearing) on the old axle and run it for a while. I like to match axles, but in the short term it won't hurt anything on leaf springs with an equalizer. I wouldn't do that with a set of rubber torsion axles.

[Huntindog]

69 Avion wrote:

1stvee wrote:
Colliehauler is correct. I should have said; I had an Axel Assembly failure. The Axel Assembly was shipped to the Trailer Mfg. as a complete unit, Axel, Hub w/bearing races & bearings, Backing Plate w/brakes, all assembled ready for the road. I don't know what failed in there. After putting out the fire. The only thing left was parts of the brakes, heavy damaged hub & races, bearing bases stuck on spindle & a nut. Thank You.
1stvee

Nobody knows what caused the bearing failure. It could have been packed improperly or it could have been a bad bearing which would be a failure of the axle assembly.NO. A bearing repack job should ALWAYS include a bearing/race/spindle inspection. A impending problem can easily be spotted during this inspection, and the OPs problem wouldn't have occurred.
If you really want to figure it out, check the remain two bearing assemblies on the remaining axle. If they are packed properly and the nut was tightened properly, then you can make a logical conclusion that it was a bad bearing. If the remaining two bearing sets are not packed and tightened properly, then we can assume that it was the mechanic who created the issue. If you decide to check the remaining axle bearing, let us know what you find.

Never make an assumption like that. The mechanic may have been interrupted when doing the failed bearing, or even two different people may have been working on it.

[Gdetrailer]

ktmrfs wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

69 Avion wrote:

1stvee wrote:
FYI-Has anyone had this problem? I purchased my 2011 Cruiser RV 24SD ViewFinder new. Used it about 3000 miles each year 2011 & 2012. I pulled & packed the wheel bearings each year. Jan 2013 had my local dealer pull wheels, inspect the brakes/bearings & repack bearings all 4 wheels. Near the end of a 3500 mile trip 9/12/2013 the right front bearing failed. It destroyed everything, even caught fire. After 2 days beside the road I got it patched enough to limp 150 miles to a Camping World. After 5 days of good intentions and some poor follow up. I was told a new Lippert axel could take up to 2 weeks to receive or I could stay in a hotel for another 3 or 4 days while the spindle was locally replaced. Each option was $700 plus. I called a little Trailer fabricator and repair shop about 25 miles away, Accutrak Mfg. Corp. Los Lunas, NM. The owner, Robert said he was very familiar with the Lippert axel problems. The next day for just over $500 Accutrak installed complete new Dexter axel assy. (axel hubs brakes bearings complete).
Here is a RUB. The Leppert axels under my trailer has ID Tags showing they are 2800 LB load cap. The Dexter replacement is 3500LB. Robert said he had stopped using Leppert axels a few years back, but did not elaborate. In all fairness to Lippert. Because I am clearly out of warranty I did not try to get any restitution from them. However as soon as I can recoup from the almost $2000 total cost of this failure I am going to replace the other 2800 LB Lippert axel with a 3500LB Dexter assembly.
1stvee

That is what I would do. A lot of "quality" axle manufacturers don't start giving you decent spindles, hubs and bearings until you get to the 3,500# rating. I had a local axle manufacturer take a Flexiride axle system and de-rate it to 2,000# by installing the rubber with about 1/3 of it removed from the center. This allows for the rubber torsion axle to "give" more, but also gave me the heavy duty axle components.

By the way, Lippert strikes again. You would think that with all the bad info on the internet, most educated buyers would refuse to buy anything with Lippert components.

Not really.

Lippert like Dexter manufactures the axles to the SPECIFICATIONS GIVEN TO THEM BY THE MANUFACTURER OF THE TRAILER.

Niether Lippert or Dexter sells to the general public.

The axle tags specify the MAX weight allowed for the entire axle/wheel assembly which is including the wheels. It is taken as a full assembly and the weakest component of that assemble mandates the max load available.

For instance, my Dexter axles have a tag of 3300lbs but yet the axle is in the 3500 lb "class" of axles and uses brakes and drums for 3500 lb axles.

Lippert gets a bad name more so since they manufacture so many axles when it is actually the manufacturer of the entire trailer SPECIFYING the axle weights..

Dexter, Alko, lippert axles are readily available to the general public. Most any axle shop can and will sell you a Alko or Dexter axles. Pick the weight rating, give them all the dimension they need and you'll get anything from an axle tube with stubs to an axle assy with springs, brakes, drums installed.

:R

Let me rephrase things.

Niether Lippert or Dexter sells DIRECTLY to the general public (and you could add in AL-KO for good measure to this statement).

DEXTER FAQS

"AXLES - Can I buy axles directly from Dexter?

All Dexter axles are manufactured specifically for each customer order. Since there are literally tens of thousands of size and option combinations, we do not stock any axles. Therefore, every order must be set-up to produce. While we do sell axles direct, it is generally less expensive to purchase small quantities of axles through our distribution network. Because they buy in volume, they can supply axles at a more reasonable price than factory-direct due to set-up and freight costs. There is a complete list of Dexter Axle authorized distributors on our web site. Those coded with "AB" stock bare axle beams and can provide complete axle assemblies with a very short lead-time."

In other words, Dexter does not STOCK premade axles, if you WANT to buy DIRECTLY from Dexter YOU will pay a setup fee and WAIT until Dexter inserts YOUR small order in between production runs of BULK purchases.

It is better that you buy/order through the distributor network if you want an axle faster and cheaper than ordering direct so therefore they are NOT setup for the CONSUMER to buy factory direct.

Lippert…

LIPPERT STORE

"These are the most commonly ordered axle assemblies and beam assemblies from Lippert Components. There are 1,000's of different assemblies that LCI makes. If you don't see the correct size, feel free to e-mail or call us to order the size that's right for you.
Due to the shear mass of available axles, we currently do not sell them online at this time. You may call our service and warranty department to order entire axle assemblies."

In other words, You will HAVE to CALL/CONTACT them with YOUR SPECS, they will sell it IF they have a match "in stock" otherwise they will MANUFACTURE TO YOUR SPECS..

Al-KO
AL-KO

"Because our experience crosses every industry that uses trailer axles, we can bring to your organization the quality, delivery, design, and cost requirements that you require, regardless of complexity. We have the resources necessary to accomplish the most demanding goals and the most discriminating customer. We are truly an extension of your plants. We are a resource that can gain your company a competitive advantage in an industry that is mature. If you have a project that needs a technical person to answer some questions or you need a team of people on site for a value analysis workshop, we are your answer. We have worked with some of the largest consumers of these products in the world consuming hundreds of thousands of axles and we can still make 1 axle if that is the requirement. In a world of options, AL-KO Axis, Inc. works everyday to make the option clear.
Let our team work for you... AL-KO Axis, Inc. the customer focused company."

Key words is “gain your COMPANY a competitive advantage..” In other words BULK PURCHASING…

In all cases the axle manufacturers WILL attempt to “help” you as a “END consumer” but that IS NOT their primary focus nor goal. Their primary focus is LARGE BULK PURCHASES, the end consumer is encouraged to use distributers to purchase through.

Your axles ARE custom manufactured TO the specs which the TRAILER MANUFACTURER gives. Your axle BEAMS have very specific dimensions (spring perch is critical) which can and do vary from trailer frame to trailer frame so it is hard to find exact off the shelf axles which will fit without some modifications.

In many cases you may find some axles to have similar dimensions which will work with only a few minor adjustments.

I HAVE had contact with Dexter in the past, was told I “could” order parts from them but it would be cheaper AND faster to purchase from their “distributor” network. They were correct, I was able to buy drums elsewhere for HALF of the price Dexter quoted me over the phone..

Keep in mind that it IS the trailer manufacturers engineering dept that designs and specifies the frame and running gear. They bear the responsibility of the running gear specs, NOT the axle manufacturer..

Everyone seams to love to crucify a component manufacturer for a supposed “defect” because their name is attached to that component..
In the case of the OPs original post at the beginning of this thread it is not a defect of the axle manufacturer which caused blown wheel bearings.

It was the fault of the LAST PERSON WHO TOUCHED THE BEARINGS (IE “serviced” them).

Trailer axle bearings can be easily OVERTIGHTENED, they are by design do not need zero lash and the castle nut is designed to only have a few adjustment positions. Setting the bearings is a simple procedure where if the castle opening does not match the cotter pin hole at zero lash you simply BACK OFF the nut slightly until the castle opening matches the cotter pin hole. This often results in a small amount of bearing lash (in/out movement) which is acceptable for trailer axles.

Second issue is often too much grease or too little grease. There IS a sweet spot for amount of grease on the bearings.. Too much and it blows out the seal loosing grease which can lead to bearing failure and contamination of the brakes. Too little the bearings overheat and fail..

Repacking by hand is by far the BEST way, messy but works best.
Per Dexter HERE if you FOLLOW their procedures you will not have a bearing failure..

I tend to prefer DIY my own, for my sanity, but I grew up wrenching on cars with my Dad who taught me well.

[UncleDonald]

Had a dutchmen aerolite that looked as if they built it out of spare parts that might have been left over. Lost a bearing on one trip and then the bearing and tire on the same axel on another trip. The Lippert looked like it was either a used axel or one that had been laying around outside for awhile. Bought the rig from Camping World in Colorado Springs and it did indeed look like it was put together from spare parts. I have been told by more than one dealer that Dutchmen no longer has the good name it used to and have to agree with that. Traded that pos off and so far am really happy with the new Coachmen.