Hallmark Roof Leak Rubber Roof TPO

[ricamiller]

Hi there,

I just bought a 2006 Hallmark Ute. The previous owner claimed the roof didn't leak, but it does.

There is a crack between the aluminum edge framing and the roof which seems to be where the water is coming in. The crack extends around the entire roof it leaks only in the back.

The rest of the roof seems to be in fine shape although it is penetrated and caulk in multiple places for the roof rack and solar panels.

Should I caulk the crack? I temporarily put some duct tape on it and it slows but doesn't eliminate the leak. If so, what is the right caulk?

I emailed Hallmark and they suggested replacing the entire roof which I don't want to do if I can fix this one.

Thanks,
Ric

[whizbang]

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[Testudo]

Silversand wrote:
....I looked closely at your photos, and to me, your roofing material looks like TPO (not EPDM rubber).

'Silversand' tipped me off to this topic and I started writing him before I actually _read_ the topic. I concur with his observation for several reasons...

TPO is typically the _same_ color all the way through. So, white on BOTH sides. EDPM is typically black or a darker color on the hidden side.

TPO is less resilient. In fact, earlier formulations could be so 'brittle' that installations would 'shrink' under mere sun exposure and thus tear at the edges.

What I think happened in most of the photos I'm seeing, here, is that water has infiltrated the roof ( ...either through 'insults' to the material or through deficits in caulk at equipment installation points) and caused underlying wooden structure to de-laminate (...in a word - - 'expand'). This expansion results in the tearing of the TPO at the edges. Even older OUTFITTER campers have quite a bit of wood up in their roofs. Once the TPO tearing has started, it is a sign that the 'jig is already up'. I know you don't want to hear it but I think HALLMARK gave excellent advice by proposing that the roof be rebuilt. Earlier HALLMARK campers have much more wood in them than OUTFITTERs do so cutting to the chase and rebuilding the roof might very well save the rest of the camper.

If one can manage to get their roof recovered before the water can do its worst, then one is ahead of the game. But I guess it is not human nature to do that. Just putting caulk over bad caulk is not likely to solve much. I'm lucky in that I store my OUTFITTER Caribou inside a nominally heated garage space so I've gotten away with murder in terms of maintenance. I _do_ frequently inspect my roof and caulk for 'issues' but I hope I have good enough sense to have my roof recovered by OUTFITTER _before_ they need to build a new roof for me from scratch (...to be determined - - grin !).

OUTFITTER and HALLMARK, both, have progressed in roof design so it would make sense to consider a whole new roof to take advantage of those advances in materials - - especially if the existing roof foundation is going to need extensive replacement before recovering.

NOTE WELL that merely 'covering up' the edge tears does NOT result in an effective repair ! FIRST, the water _source_ must be found and eliminated ! I described the mere caulking of edge tears to 'Silversand' as "...re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic".

NOTE ALSO that these issues are not "defects" of HALLMARK or OUTFITTER 'designs' but rather a 'feature' of what was a _standard_ roof design for RVs at least up until recent years. It is incumbent upon the owner to maintain the roof integrity, on an annual basis, whether it is covered in TPO, EDPM, aluminum, or fiberglass.

Carpe diem !

[silversand]

D Voigt 17 wrote:
Used table saw and router to remake frame perimeter because it was rotten.

I read that your original roof frame "perimeter" was wood, and partially rotted out?

Our 2005 Outfitter roof perimeter (and entire roof framing structure) is aluminum, and won't rot out. On edit: the "decking" under the TPO is marine ply over a crowned structure, with a layer of 1/8th inch felt, then the TPO overlay.

On the Outfitters: ...if the seam sealant should separate from the TPO along the vertical aluminum roof channel fascia, I can't see how any water could travel "up hill" 3 inches to the top of the perimeter radius. However, I am not a structural engineer, so perhaps this is possible.

Also, these are the old style roofs; I think that all the pop-up roofs at Hallmark (and Outfitter) are now glass or fiber composites now...

[silversand]

....I looked closely at your photos, and to me, your roofing material looks like TPO (not EPDM rubber).

I buckle the roof down with just enough force to "compress" about 1.4 inch. I also have a TPO roof (on the Outfitter, manufactured in 2005), and re-caulk about every 3 years using only Dicor non-sag lap sealant for vertical surfaces (I have the older TPO formulation, before the TPO patent expired and all hell broke loose with myriad new formulations entering the market).

Dicor makes a new sealant system that is chemically compatible with all the TPO variant chemistries; it is called: Ultra Sealant, and is 2 part mixable material. Dicor writes that this new Ultra Sealant is compatible with all the known RV TPO chemistry variants. Read about it here-->

If anyone uses this 2-part material, do your due diligence when applying to vertical roof areas (watch for sealant sag).

[towpro]

I see your pictures. I would try to remove as much of the old caulk as you can, but be careful not to damage the rubber roof, than calk over it joint with Dicore.
Dicore makes self leveling and not self leveling. you don't want self leveling for the sides as it will try to run on you.
while your at it, check the rest of the roof. Look at anything already sealed for cracks in the caulk. you want the self leveling on the roof.

for best repair, clean the roof so stuff sticks better. Maybe blow any water out of that open joint if you have an air hose before sealing it.

[ISBRAM]

When we had our 1994 Hallmark it had the same problem at the roof edges seam but it had an aluminum roof skin. After calking it a few times, but over time only to have the problem reappear and provide a place for a potential leak.
I scraped and cleaned all of the old caulk/ sealer off and used 3M 5200 marine polyurethane adhesive/sealant to reseal the entire roof edge. Several years later when I sold the camper it still looked great, with no evidence of cracking or separating at all.

Our 2011 Hallmark has the one-piece molded fiberglass composite roof, what an improvement! I know it’s a costly conversion/ upgrade but it might be worth it if you own an otherwise perfect condition camper.

[Dvoigt17]

We bought our 2004 camper for cheap since part of the roof was bad. Ended up rebuilding a lot of it. Front corners were bad. Used table saw and router to remake frame perimeter because it was rotten.



We ended up replacing all the inside ceiling panels.



A lot of work, but worth it.

[Dvoigt17]

I added brackets that tie back to the rack to help releave the stress of pulling down on aluminum edge. Also added another clamp hold down to the front to tie I front rack.

This has helped greatly on stress causing caulk to crack.

[whazoo]

ricamiller wrote:
Hi Whazoo,

Thanks for the recommendation on the seam sealer for the stitching holes.

re: the roof brackets opening the crack, do you think I should overtighten, caulk, let it dry, then back them off to make sure the caulk gets into the crack?

Thanks,
Ric

That's how I did it, Geewizards method work work as well. Good luck!

[towpro]

Here is your pictures

[Geewizard]

.

[ricamiller]

Hi Whazoo,

Thanks for the recommendation on the seam sealer for the stitching holes.

re: the roof brackets opening the crack, do you think I should overtighten, caulk, let it dry, then back them off to make sure the caulk gets into the crack?

Thanks,
Ric

[Geewizard]

ricamiller wrote:
Hi there,

Thank you for your response. I'll give the Dicor a try.

I also saw an article in Truck Camper Magazine that said Sikaflex 715 was good although Dicor was less expensive.

Do you have an opinion on the effectiveness of one vs. the other?

On the off chance that you may have an opinion on another leak point, does your Outfitter leak around the seams around the soft sided pop up part around the stitching of the flexible windows/covers?

The Hallmark Ute has Velcro closing flexible plastic windows and covers. The needle they used was pretty big resulting in weep holes where the sewing is. We noticed that these weep overnight with water drops that cause the top of the mattress to get a bit damp.

My girlfriend went to Home Depot and got a spray can of Rustoleum LeakSeal Flexible Rubber Coating.

http://www.rustoleum.com/about-rust-oleum/rustoleum-press-room/rust-oleum-news/rust-oleum-leakseal-flexible-rubber-coating-stops-leaks-instantly/

I'd like to coat the flexible camper wall stitching seams with something but am unsure if there is a recommended product.

Thanks,
Ric

I've only used Dicor so no experience with anything else.

Yes, the Outfitter windows and velcro are nearly identical as your Ute.

As Whazoo said, use some tent seam sealer on those big stitching holes and you will weep no more.

If it was me, I'd sure try caulking things before I bit the bullet for a new roof. :E

[ricamiller]

Hi there,

Thank you for your replies!

I have the original price sheet when it was sold in 2006.

It says "Dicor Fleece Backed Rubber Roof".

Would that mean it is EDPM? I'm not sure where I got the word "TPM".

If it is id EDPM sounds like I would use the Dicor EPDM lap sealant in a caulk tube, right?

Hallmark actually resold this camper to the person I bought it from about a year ago. I have the last sellers paper work from Hallmark and it doesn't say anything about the roof other than to check the sealant twice a year.

I emailed Hallmark a couple of weeks ago to ask them if they had any notes on the roof. They said no, and that if it was 10-15 years old it probably needed to be replaced.

The roof is smooth and clean on top. It is just a crack where the roof meets the metal on the sides and back that seem to be a problem.

I would think that just caulk and not a roof replacement would be needed.

Photos:

http://floatinghome.com/fh/photos/img_1950.jpg

http://floatinghome.com/fh/photos/img_1961.jpg

http://floatinghome.com/fh/photos/img_1949.jpg

Thanks,
Ric