Helping a very new TC owner with a truck decision

[mgsulkis]

Hi There,

Brand new TC owner and first time owner of anything RV or travel rig related. Asking for your forgiveness early on anything silly questions I ask. Thought I'd try to get some expert advice on this forum.

I just purchased a 2005 Lance Lite 845 from a family here in Colorado. I now need to purchase a truck to put it on.

The 2005 Lance Lite 845 is listed at 2190lbs dry. I see plenty of people putting the 845 on 250/2500 trucks. However, when I do the basic math on the GVWR the total weight is coming very close to the max (ie - within 200lbs or so). (Typically 8500-10000lbs GVWR and anywhere from 6400-7500 curb weight of the truck)

Two questions:

1. Are folks adding additional leaf springs and/or airbags to their 250/2500's and just calling it a day? Seems like that's the case

2. As I look for a truck (I'm trying to narrow down between a short bed Dodge 2500 cummins, Ford f250 and chevy 2500) should I be taking the truck to a scale to get a true curb weight to make sure I don't screw up the max GVWR?

Thank you! I have a lot more questions - a true rookie here. But having fun learning something new. Cheers.

[specta]

burningman wrote:


A friend of mine gave up his Chevy Duramax and bought one of those coil spring 2500 Rams. He put his camper in and it pretty much tried to kill him.
He turned around and went back home and never loaded the camper on that thing again.

That's a pretty expensive lesson to learn. 😞

[burningman]

wintersun wrote:
With the Chevy/GM/Ram trucks there is no difference between the 2500 and 3500 trucks other than the number of rear leaf springs in the pack and whether you can get DRW on the truck as DRW available only with the 3500 models.

Negative!!
2014-and-up 2500 Rams have a coil spring rear suspension. It would be fine, BUT - they mounted the coils inboard of the frame.
That effectively gives the chassis a very narrow platform and it’s inherently unstable with a top-heavy load like a camper.
The 3500s have leaves like every other 3/4 or 1-ton pickup, the advantage being they’re mounted outboard off the frame rails, effectively giving the chassis a wider stance and they’re much better with a camper.

A friend of mine gave up his Chevy Duramax and bought one of those coil spring 2500 Rams. He put his camper in and it pretty much tried to kill him.
He turned around and went back home and never loaded the camper on that thing again.

[wintersun]

capacitor wrote:
I dad the same 845 on a GMC 2500HD gas and added the air bags. Worked fine for 6years, no problems. The 845 is for a shortbed truck and I don’t recall a 3500 in a shortbed.

The standard bed is now 6'6" and the short bed is 5'7" and the long bed is 8' for trucks made in the last 20 years. Where it gets complicated is that a crew cab will not be available with a 8' bed. With my 2011 Chevy pickup the 2500 model was available with an extended / double cab and the standard 6'6" bed, but the 3500 was only available with the crew cab and a short bed.

[kirkl]

Dont go with Ram 2500 with coil springs, I have one and got a camper for it, had to put air bags on it and still wish i just had leaf springs. it handles the weight fine although it is just an 8ft camper but the rocking side to side is what is bad with the coil springs.

[Grit_dog]

^ And yet another reason why there's so many 1 tons vs 3/4 tons in BC.
So similar, yet different regulation as the US, largely unrelated to the vehicle's capacity that is financially motivated.

[StirCrazy]

Grit dog wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:


not nessasarly true. you CAN get a 2500 that has a special package that will bring it close to the 3500
Steve

^ Somewhat correct, although it's still all fuzzy math with no meaningful physical changes to the vehicles themselves. (Although the Ford Camper package option still appears to add some spring capacity to F250s)
Aside from that, it's all just numbers, no substance for the various ratings. And inconsistent in application.
Example, F250, typical 10kgvw, but optional up to 10.8k or 10.9k, but only with the diesel. Yet the new F350 SRWs dont get above 11.3 or 11.5k, whereas Ram and GM have srws rated in the low 12k's.
And I'm confident when I say none of the brands have meaningful changes that would make them more or less capable within the weights we're talking about, or at all really.

That's why these discussions are so fun. and why some of us try to explain this, to keep folks who don't understand or, frankly, care from chasing their tails.
It could be construed as a sales ploy by the mfgs to boost sales by people who "have" to upgrade their "wimpy" 10k gvw 3/4 ton to a "big strong" 11-12+k gvw 1 ton.
Sale #1 "That F250 will haul anything!" Buyer has big grin on his face from the new truck smell. Buyer looks to use the truck for truck stuff and reads the door sticker and has doubts. Talks to dealer, dealer says "Oh no, I wish your almost new F250 could haul that, but alas, look at the payload....we'll give you a good trade in on this shiny new new F350 sittin over here and THEN you'll be safe!"

generaly the f250 amd f350 of the same year have the same weight in that configuration so that extra 2000 lbs that you can get is all payload. I do know for my old 99 f250 the leave springs were the only thing different in that year and my 14 f350 has a different spring pack than the f250, other than that they are the same and with in 30 lbs dry weight. so if that 3/4 tone was rated to 10K, and my 350 of the same year is rated to 11.5K then that extra 1.5K is all payload capacity . but thats not the only reason for buying a f350. here where I live we have a luxery vehicle tax which is bassed off the value of the vehicle. 1 ton trucks are exempt from this tax which actualy makes them cheeper than a 3/4 ton truc so 3/4 ton truck are rather rare up here. so in my case I spent less money to get more leagal payload capacity, unlike the US we cant just pay for more capacity on our registration to make us leagal, we actualy have to be with in the numbers. 😉

Steve

[K_Mac]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned are the OEM rims. Their usually rated in the neighborhood of the rear axle.

[Grit_dog]

StirCrazy wrote:


not nessasarly true. you CAN get a 2500 that has a special package that will bring it close to the 3500
Steve

^ Somewhat correct, although it's still all fuzzy math with no meaningful physical changes to the vehicles themselves. (Although the Ford Camper package option still appears to add some spring capacity to F250s)
Aside from that, it's all just numbers, no substance for the various ratings. And inconsistent in application.
Example, F250, typical 10kgvw, but optional up to 10.8k or 10.9k, but only with the diesel. Yet the new F350 SRWs dont get above 11.3 or 11.5k, whereas Ram and GM have srws rated in the low 12k's.
And I'm confident when I say none of the brands have meaningful changes that would make them more or less capable within the weights we're talking about, or at all really.

That's why these discussions are so fun. and why some of us try to explain this, to keep folks who don't understand or, frankly, care from chasing their tails.
It could be construed as a sales ploy by the mfgs to boost sales by people who "have" to upgrade their "wimpy" 10k gvw 3/4 ton to a "big strong" 11-12+k gvw 1 ton.
Sale #1 "That F250 will haul anything!" Buyer has big grin on his face from the new truck smell. Buyer looks to use the truck for truck stuff and reads the door sticker and has doubts. Talks to dealer, dealer says "Oh no, I wish your almost new F250 could haul that, but alas, look at the payload....we'll give you a good trade in on this shiny new new F350 sittin over here and THEN you'll be safe!"

[Kayteg1]

You need to compare specific models to have full picture.
In 2017 Ford switched to aluminum beds and other diet, who made the trucks 500 lb lighter.
That gives you additional 500lb for camper weight.
Did not hear other manufacturers did that.

[StirCrazy]

mgsulkis wrote:


To summarize what I think I'm hearing:



2. 2500-3500 trucks don't differ much in terms of hauling capacity or GVWR - maybe a couple hundred pounds in a lot of cases. I need to pay attention to the tires and wheels to ensure they are rated for the weight.

not nessasarly true. you CAN get a 2500 that has a special package that will bring it close to the 3500 but for normal trucks with out lucking on one that has been a special order or ordering a brandnew one this isnt a practical way to go. just look for a 3500/f350 , check the specks on the ones your looking at to see the payload package. the camper is only 1/2 the issue, you also have the wight of the people and anything else you put in the camper so realy you looking at 1000-1200 lbs more than the camper depending on family size and how much junk you pack 😉

Steve

[JimK-NY]

mgsulkis wrote:
.....

From what I can tell the majority of TC owners are likely running over the max for their GVWR or rear axle capacity...which drives fine...but from a legal/liability standpoint means you're screwed if someone were to come after you.
.....

Regardless of the cause, you need to protect yourself with insurance in case you do something that causes an accident.

The more you carry, the less safe your rig will be. That is even true if you are well within the GVWR. Still operating at roughly the GVWR is acceptable for most of us. It is also clear that a 3500 and a 2500 truck are typically identical except for the spring pack. Many of us are content to at least make minor suspension mods to handle loads a bit over the GVWR. The limit is typically the load on the rear tires. Depending on the tire size, load ratings are typically going to be 3200-3750# per tire for a total on the rear axle of 6400-7500. Almost all of the TC weight will be on the rear axle. The truck itself will already have about 3000# on the rear axle, leaving capacity at about 3400-4500#. I would not want to operate at maximum tire load capacity and certainly would be concerned about exceeding that amount.

[billtex]

mgsulkis wrote:
I think I'm slowly figuring out what the real deal is in the truck camper world...there's really no consensus on whether being over GVWR is unacceptable or not.

From what I can tell the majority of TC owners are likely running over the max for their GVWR or rear axle capacity...which drives fine...but from a legal/liability standpoint means you're screwed if someone were to come after you.

Unfortunately, in my case - my wife (and some part of me as well) doesn't love the idea of being over the legal capacity, should anything happen.

Also unfortunate for me is that I have already purchased the 2200lb dry weight camper - and other than a dually 3500, which I really don't want, it seems like there's not a whole lot one can do to make it work (again, legally - not functionally).

A bit discouraging - but I guess we'll just have to figure out what our final decision is. Anyone need a 2005 Lance Lite 845, recently inspected? Ha.

I think I'm tired for tonight. Thanks again to everyone chiming in.

If you are concerned about GVWR there are plenty of gas SRW 1 tons that will have all the capacity you need for a 2200# camper. Choose your flavor-It’s as simple as that.

[jimh406]

I think the legality is overstated especially considering some states like CA where GVWR is simply a tax/fee number that can be changed for the right price.

People throw out liability from time to time, but it’s hypothetical since nobody has been charged with being over GVWR with the pickup. From a practical standpoint, two things have to happen. 1)The accident would need to be your fault. 2)Someone would have to prove you were over GVWR.

That being said, I believe there is consensus that being over GVWR isn’t a positive. There are people who want to make excuses for any behavior. Being over GVWR isn’t a TC specific thing. I’m sure you can find cars that are over GVWR especially if they are towing a trailer.

My guess is most people with RVs of different types don’t even think about GVWR. The question is ... do you want to have a significant failure that at minimum leaves you stranded or not. Everyone’s level of confidence is different, and at the end of the day, it’s not about other think you should do.

Finally, there are probably just as many DRWs that are over GVWR, so they aren’t immune to being over especially in the case of DRWs with very large TCs pulling trailers or carrying everything they can think of or with several people.

[Grit_dog]

If I had to have a dually to haul that little camper around, I’d just stay in a hotel instead.

On the upside, with a dually, you will at least be able to say you literally don’t even know it’s there unless you look in the mirrors!