Installed a Micro-Air Soft Start today

[Boatycall]

So there's a backstory first ---

When I bought my 1160, I got it 6mos old used. Original owner bought it stripped - no AC, no gen, not even any TVs. I got a helluva deal on it, and first thing I did was put in not the normal 11k btu roof air, but a 13.5. First problem - PITA to try and get one Honda 2000 to run it... got a second 2000. Well... two 2000's - that's it's own PITA.

Put in a MicroAir Soft Start in my roof air today - worked as advertised. One single 2000 fired it right off, from eco mode, it rev'd up, but not even to full throttle, no problem. Got it from Hutch Mountain.com, people that specialize in propane conversions for Honda gens. Great people, ask for Clayton, tell him my name (Jim, not Boatycall), he might give ya a break.

Mods/admin -- Disclaimer - I get nothing nor am I affiliated with hutch Mountain. Just passing on a good product from good people.

[Kayteg1]

Travels with Yoly wrote:
Just to add some food for thought, I loved the idea of a Honda EU3000 as the cure all for our 13.5K BTU A/C units until I became aware of the 134 lb weight.

I bought my EU3000 new for $900, but that was over 10 years ago.
At the time I could also carry it around.
Now, since I passed 60, carrying it around is not valid option, but having front hitch mount, I can still pull it out and drag on the side of camper without trouble. At home I am using $4 movers cart to roll it to storage.

[JimBollman]

Does the soft start approach reduce the start up noise of the AC?

I probably will never run the AC on a generator but the noise when the compressor first kicks in just about brings up out of bed.

[otrfun]

Travels with Yoly wrote:
Just to add some food for thought, I loved the idea of a Honda EU3000 as the cure all for our 13.5 BTU A/C units until I became aware of the 134 lb weight. At $2K cost, one could buy the two EU2000s for the same and easily move their individual weight of 48 lbs around as needed. The pair of EU2000s add substantial output over the EU3000 also. Granted, inconvenience is increased but then again my back would thank me everytime.

x1. The Honda EU3000iS, dry, weighs 134 lbs. With a full tank of fuel (and oil) it weighs closer to 165 lbs! A Honda EU2200i with a full tank of fuel weighs about 56 lbs.---1/3 the weight of an EU3000iS. Although an EU3000iS is significantly quieter than a the EU2xxx's, and possibly more fuel efficient, unless you're going to permanently or semi-permanently mount it somewhere, one should realistically keep in the mind just how heavy they are.

Something else to consider, a solo Honda EU2200i has only slightly less inrush current capability (2-4a less) vs. an EU3000iS. There are a number of 13.5k BTU a/c units (typically those with LRA's in the mid to high 60's) the EU3000iS cannot run---even with the Eco mode off (referring to unmodified a/c units, of course).

[work2much]

Kayteg1 wrote:

work2much wrote:


What 12v>120n inverter/charger with transfer switch do you recommend that will start your A/C compressor for $300?. Also once the air reaches temperature and the compressor cycles off do you repeat the process after the genset pops a fuse trying to restart the unit by resetting and using the inverter again to start over and over? That seems cumbersome and probably not great for the generators resettable fuse.

15 years ago I bought Xantex. Have not been on inverter/charger market since.
With automatic transfer switch such inverter will always keep an eye on the system. That was also handy on overloaded campground power, where voltage could drop below 100V.
I recall few years ago one of generator manufacturers was offering mid-sized generator with inverter boost, what did sound like great solutions for RV.
I wonder what happen to this idea?

Not sure what you mean. A transfer switch is only going to be allowing one source of AC current at a time. It's not like a hybrid inverter that can supplement generator power with battery/inverter power when the generator becomes overloaded. The inverter will only kick on after the generators AC power ceases to exist. ie: blown a fuse from overloading it. Once the generator is restarted the transfer switch will go back to generator power until the next time the compressor kicks on and kills the generator again.

It isn't a seamless automatic system where the inverter keeps an eye on the system.

Unless your inverter was a hybrid inverter. I don't know if Xantrex was making hybrids 15 years ago. A typical hybrid large enough to start an AC unit in stock form(without a better start cap system) is $1500 + dollars. Plus that big battery you need when the voltage gets hammered. I know I have a system like that.

https://www.invertersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=31121&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzcu34ajs4QIVBtNkCh1dlQ1GEAQYAyABEgJCJvD_BwE

The OP's description of the value of this product is dead on. He can now run a 13k unit from a single Honda 2000 in eco mode. Buying any sort of $300 dollar inverter wasn't going to help him run his air conditioner. If I were going to use a generator, this is exactly what I would do. Small efficient, lightweight generator and the Easy Start. Well worth the money IMO.

[Travels_with_Yo]

Just to add some food for thought, I loved the idea of a Honda EU3000 as the cure all for our 13.5K BTU A/C units until I became aware of the 134 lb weight. At $2K cost, one could buy the two EU2000s for the same and easily move their individual weight of 48 lbs around as needed. The pair of EU2000s add substantial output over the EU3000 also. Granted, inconvenience is increased but then again my back would thank me everytime.

[Kayteg1]

work2much wrote:


What 12v>120n inverter/charger with transfer switch do you recommend that will start your A/C compressor for $300?. Also once the air reaches temperature and the compressor cycles off do you repeat the process after the genset pops a fuse trying to restart the unit by resetting and using the inverter again to start over and over? That seems cumbersome and probably not great for the generators resettable fuse.

15 years ago I bought Xantex. Have not been on inverter/charger market since.
With automatic transfer switch such inverter will always keep an eye on the system. That was also handy on overloaded campground power, where voltage could drop below 100V.
I recall few years ago one of generator manufacturers was offering mid-sized generator with inverter boost, what did sound like great solutions for RV.
I wonder what happen to this idea?

[work2much]

Kayteg1 wrote:

work2much wrote:
Start the air with an inverter and then switch over? I don't think any transfer switch will operate that seamlessly while under load. Maybe I am wrong. Never tried it.

It does. I had the setup on my bus conversion with 24V inverter/charger. 15 yo technology, so now I would expect better.
While on the road I was running AC on inverter, when I plug in at campground, inverter took few seconds to recognize new power source and would switch seamlessly both ways.
TV won't even blink.
One more thing to consider spending money on soft start v/s getting bigger generator is fact that Honda3000 is quieter than Honda 2000 and will run for 14 hr on its tank. It seems to be more economical under load as well.
I've been camping next to guys who used two of H2000 to power their big 5-er.
Whole day they've been busy refueling and restarting and I think at the end of the day something burned.

What 12v>120n inverter/charger with transfer switch do you recommend that will start your A/C compressor for $300?. Also once the air reaches temperature and the compressor cycles off do you repeat the process after the genset pops a fuse trying to restart the unit by resetting and using the inverter again to start over and over? That seems cumbersome and probably not great for the generators resettable fuse.

[Kayteg1]

work2much wrote:
Start the air with an inverter and then switch over? I don't think any transfer switch will operate that seamlessly while under load. Maybe I am wrong. Never tried it.

It does. I had the setup on my bus conversion with 24V inverter/charger. 15 yo technology, so now I would expect better.
While on the road I was running AC on inverter, when I plug in at campground, inverter took few seconds to recognize new power source and would switch seamlessly both ways.
TV won't even blink.
One more thing to consider spending money on soft start v/s getting bigger generator is fact that Honda3000 is quieter than Honda 2000 and will run for 14 hr on its tank. It seems to be more economical under load as well.
I've been camping next to guys who used two of H2000 to power their big 5-er.
Whole day they've been busy refueling and restarting and I think at the end of the day something burned.

[work2much]

Start the air with an inverter and then switch over? I don't think any transfer switch will operate that seamlessly while under load. Maybe I am wrong. Never tried it.

Any inverter being used to energize the air conditioning circuit would have to be integrated into the factory transfer switch or have a transfer switch of its own. I haven't seen any $300 inverters with built in transfer switches that are rated high enough. Most of the large cheap Chinese inverters when tested don't come close to handling their claimed surge ratings.

Inverter or generator it needs to be able to overcome the high inrush amperage. Also with an inverter you need a big enough battery bank and cabling that pulling down that high load won't kill line voltage sending the inverter into trouble and shutting it off.

Initial starting of the air conditioners compressor isn't the entire story. Unless your air is running flat out 100% duty cycle the compressor cycles off and on. Each time the power source is required to overcome the inrush amperage of stating the compressor again. A warm system may start easier initially but as heat rises in the unit and wiring so does the resistance. A hot compressor and wiring may be harder to start than a cold one.

A better start cap may be a good way to go if you are close. They are cheap and easy to install. If that doesn't do it for you the easy start could be a great way to go.

[otrfun]

17oaks wrote:

Rbertalotto wrote:

. I prob installed a good 5 or 6 different makes and brands of devices that you can buy to start your roof RV AC.

Interesting. Other than simple capacitors and this soft start device, I've not seen any other Dr ice that accomplished the same thing.

Can you list a fewthat you have indtalled?

Thanks

Its been awhile, but I had the wife order some off e bay, Amazon and TWeety's. They run about $20-$30, its a capacitor and you replace the one you have with xyz.

I never had any issues with it starting off pole power, but my 2500 Onan would not kick the compressor on and that is what I was wanting...not that we boondock often, but there are times I want or need to. Fine in winter, but summer in S Tx and AZ...no way!

If you're generator is right on the edge of starting an a/c, an inexpensive start cap will certainly help. They probably drop the LRA about 3-5 amps. Great solution if you only need a small reduction.

However, for those folks with smaller generators who need their LRA reduced as much as 10-20 amps to start their a/c, the Micro Air Easy Start is their only option. To my knowledge there is no other device on the market that even comes close to what the Micro Air Easy Start does. Typically, they drop the LRA more than 20 amps. A pretty amazing device.

For some, spending $250-$300 on the Micro Air is a much cheaper (and easier on the back) solution than purchasing a 2nd generator to parallel, or purchasing a larger, much heavier single generator.

[Kayteg1]

BradW wrote:

I think we have only run our a/c on our Honda generator 1 time in 19 years.

In our retirement vacations from 80 nights on the road, we could sleep only about 3 with no AC on.
Some like to camp in Alaska, some in Florida. What's the point of showing it all the time?
I agree that the kit cost too much for what it is.
I have Honda 3000, so like jim, don't worry about it.
But would I have Honda 2000, I would think about using inverter/charger for AC start up and then switch it to generator while running.
$300 buys you nice inverter with much more potential uses.

[BradW]

jimh425 wrote:
I don’t use the AC much........

I think we have only run our a/c on our Honda generator 1 time in 19 years.

[jimh406]

Seems a lot cheaper and less trouble than a second generator and lighter than going with a 3000 instead of a 2000. I don’t use the AC much, but when I do I use my Onan Propane model, so it’s not a choice for me at the moment.

[17oaks]

Travels with Yoly wrote:
The one in discussion here is about $295

Yea that what they quoted me and I would not roll with it. So I just started watching for units to go on sale, but by then I had discovered the battery trick..

Anyhow moving to a Host Mammoth...