Is a higher TT GVWR better?

[outwestbound]

If a travel trailer's load (all my cargo, liquids, batts, LP, etc.)PLUS dry trailer weights were hypothetically say 8,200lbs for two TTs I'm considering, but the GVWR on one was 9800 and the other 11,000, wouldn't the higher GVWR be the safest? Ignoring cost, wouldn't the TT with the highest GVWR, even if I don't need to put more cargo in it, essentially be safer due to stronger brake system?

[westend]

outwestbound wrote:

westend wrote:

outwestbound wrote:
If a travel trailer's load (all my cargo, liquids, batts, LP, etc.)PLUS dry trailer weights were hypothetically say 8,200lbs for two TTs I'm considering, but the GVWR on one was 9800 and the other 11,000, wouldn't the higher GVWR be the safest? Ignoring cost, wouldn't the TT with the highest GVWR, even if I don't need to put more cargo in it, essentially be safer due to stronger brake system?

That theory assumes that the higher GVWR trailer has different brakes. There are only so many choices in brake size out there.

Yes, I assumed the brakes would be different but clearly I need to lean more about the specs on all machinery involved; TT and TV. Industry information is sketchy for sure. I'd assumed the dry TT weights to be equal, so to a newbie, if what I put onto the TT was also equal, but the two trailers advertised very different GVWR, then something must account for the increased GVWR (presumably braking). The more kind folks like you all that respond to my questions the more I realize how loose the RV industry - perhaps more in TTs than say motorcoaches, is with facts.

I'm a numerical guy and this whole thing conceptually is a basic optimization subject to constraint exercise. But getting viable assumptions and data is killing me; it will just take time and I learn more every day.

First. safety, quality, strength, and durability are all not written in the numbers.

Easy data to collect is UVW and GVWR, tire and axle load capacities, and pretty much what materials are used in a trailer. Either a brochure or a call to the Mfg. would get all the numbers.

What is difficult to optimise to constraint is the type and applications of running gear (including frame) and how they compare between individual trailers. I think we can leave the brakes out of the exercise because most systems are similar and are all engineered to stop the weights from moving. They are actually one of the more adequate systems in an RV.

One caveat, while gathering information, do not rely on dealers and their sales help. There is too much variability as to knowledge and the overriding sales agenda skews everything. I would suggest to narrow searches about RV's on this Forum and explore individual systems or groups of related components to advise yourself on the aspects of them.

[JJBIRISH]

mich800 wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:
First the question is about the rating not the total load…
anyone that thinks the lighter load rating is a good thing is out of their cotton picking mind…

There is more to it than just the brakes… there is the springs axle and chassis that allow for the additional load rating… and that is a good thing under any circumstances, and I can’t think of any reason that a higher CCC is somehow a bad idea…

There is a lot of marketing with these things but what is being marketed here is someone has a trailer with a light CCC so thinks everyone else should…

I don't think that is the question. The question is: Is the TT with less unused capacity less safe then one with more unused capacity? I do not see how this can be answered. Both are safe.

Or put another way; is a one ton truck safer than a half ton truck? The one ton has a higher payload capacity.

mich,


I still read the question as 2 trailers each with a specific and different GVWR and both with a same but hypothetically GVW (8200 pounds)… I think my comprehension was on target as to the question..

My answer and my opinion is as it was…
there would be no basis to determine the trailer vehicle with the lighter GVWR and lower CCC would be better or safer…
and by the same token there is a basis to believe and determine that the trailer with the higher GVWR and higher allowable CCC is a better choice and has a greater margin (higher safe load capacity) for safety…

What I never said is one is safe and the other is not..., which was not the question and which is what you are implying I said… there are reasons for the higher GVWR, and we just don’t know at this point what they are…

To answer your question,
“is a one ton truck safer than a half ton truck? The one ton has a higher payload capacity.”

Both are safe to their limit, but the one tone with its higher payload capacity is safer for a wider range of applications… so yes the 1 ton could be a safer vehicle by virtue of having heavier axles bigger brakes and heavier tires and a higher capacity… especially if it was purchased to haul weight loads…
Would it be a more comfortable ride to use for a daily driver??? Most likely it would not…

A trailer chassis sole purpose is designed to carry loads…


But if I am wrong it wouldn’t be the first time…

[mich800]

JJBIRISH wrote:
First the question is about the rating not the total load…
anyone that thinks the lighter load rating is a good thing is out of their cotton picking mind…

There is more to it than just the brakes… there is the springs axle and chassis that allow for the additional load rating… and that is a good thing under any circumstances, and I can’t think of any reason that a higher CCC is somehow a bad idea…

There is a lot of marketing with these things but what is being marketed here is someone has a trailer with a light CCC so thinks everyone else should…

I don't think that is the question. The question is: Is the TT with less unused capacity less safe then one with more unused capacity? I do not see how this can be answered. Both are safe.

Or put another way; is a one ton truck safer than a half ton truck? The one ton has a higher payload capacity.

[RinconVTR]

Huntindog wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:
Unless you've heard of dual axle TT's bending and breaking all over numerous forums, the two GVWR's are nothing more than a form of marketing to sell you on one or the other. One is not more "safe" over the other, this has nothing to do with safety. (Much like the truck world.)

I'm not sure how anyone could argue pulling more weight would be more safe, just because you're within ratings. It just doesn't work that way.

In short, GVWR is not how to shop for a TT, despite the fact this site loves to claim so. The only exception would be, does it truly offer more cargo capacity over the other trailer? Extra load capacity might come in handy, however it sounds to me like you know to over estimate already. So how much is too much, and would you ever possibly use it.

I'd use a few other factors to determine which TT to buy.

Actually it is quite common to bend an axle by hitting a pothole or curbing the TT. Lots of posts on this and alignment fixes caused by it.
The higher rated Axles will give more safety margin when something like this occurs. And I do believe that it is a higher priority than some of the other things that some fret over.

Yeah, it happens. It happens to every, single thing driven on the road...does it not?

A higher rated axle doesn't make you immune to anything.

And we're not talking a big difference in this example either.

[RinconVTR]

Ron Gratz wrote:

I'm not sure how anyone could argue pulling more weight would be more safe, just because you're within ratings. It just doesn't work that way.

Nobody's arguing that pulling more weight would be more safe.

The OP is asking about two TT's which have different GVWRs but would be loaded to weigh the same.

Ron

Weigh the same? I would never dare assume that. This is not physically possible unless the trailers were 100% identical.

Loaded the same...of course this is possible. As I said...it comes down to actual carrying capacity between the two options. It would help if we had model numbers instead of throwing out lots of assumptions.

[Ron_Gratz]

I'm not sure how anyone could argue pulling more weight would be more safe, just because you're within ratings. It just doesn't work that way.

Nobody's arguing that pulling more weight would be more safe.

The OP is asking about two TT's which have different GVWRs but would be loaded to weigh the same.

Ron

[Ron_Gratz]

Not necessarily. It should be "stronger", but if the same brake assemblies were used between the two, and they are both loaded to their GVWR then the lighter RV would be "safer".

If the two TT's have the same brake assemblies, but different GVWRs -- then it is likely that something other than brake performance has been used to determine the GVWR for at least one of the TT's.

The GVWR is supposed to be based on the "weakest" component of the tire/brake/axle/suspension/frame system.

If the tires of a 9800# GVWR TT are loaded to 8200#, the weakest component is loaded to 84% of its rated load.
If the tires of a 11000# GVWR TT are loaded to 8200#, the weakest component is loaded to 75%% of its rated load.

It's hard for me to see how the TT with the lower GVWR would be "safer".

Ron

[Huntindog]

RinconVTR wrote:
Unless you've heard of dual axle TT's bending and breaking all over numerous forums, the two GVWR's are nothing more than a form of marketing to sell you on one or the other. One is not more "safe" over the other, this has nothing to do with safety. (Much like the truck world.)

I'm not sure how anyone could argue pulling more weight would be more safe, just because you're within ratings. It just doesn't work that way.

In short, GVWR is not how to shop for a TT, despite the fact this site loves to claim so. The only exception would be, does it truly offer more cargo capacity over the other trailer? Extra load capacity might come in handy, however it sounds to me like you know to over estimate already. So how much is too much, and would you ever possibly use it.

I'd use a few other factors to determine which TT to buy.

Actually it is quite common to bend an axle by hitting a pothole or curbing the TT. Lots of posts on this and alignment fixes caused by it.
The higher rated Axles will give more safety margin when something like this occurs. And I do believe that it is a higher priority than some of the other things that some fret over.

[JJBIRISH]

First the question is about the rating not the total load…
anyone that thinks the lighter load rating is a good thing is out of their cotton picking mind…

There is more to it than just the brakes… there is the springs axle and chassis that allow for the additional load rating… and that is a good thing under any circumstances, and I can’t think of any reason that a higher CCC is somehow a bad idea…

There is a lot of marketing with these things but what is being marketed here is someone has a trailer with a light CCC so thinks everyone else should…

[Ron_Gratz]

outwestbound wrote:
If a travel trailer's load (all my cargo, liquids, batts, LP, etc.)PLUS dry trailer weights were hypothetically say 8,200lbs for two TTs I'm considering, but the GVWR on one was 9800 and the other 11,000, wouldn't the higher GVWR be the safest? Ignoring cost, wouldn't the TT with the highest GVWR, even if I don't need to put more cargo in it, essentially be safer due to stronger brake system?

The TT with the higher GVWR should be safer -- but not necessarily due to a stronger brake system.
The two TTs (9800# GVWR and 11000# GVWR) could be using the same brakes.

But, if they have the same brakes and different GVWRs, the GVWR of the 9800# TT must be limited by something other than its brakes -- perhaps its tires.

So, lets assume the 9800#-rated TT has brakes rated for 12000# and tires rated for 9800#.
And, let's assume the 11000#-rated TT has brakes rated for 12000# and tires rated for 11000#.

Under these assumptions, it boils down to whether it's "safer" to operate at 84% of tire rating and 68% of brake rating (with the lower GVWR) or at 75% of tire rating and 68% of brake rating (with the higher GVWR).

Since the GVWR is supposed to be based on the "weakest" component of the tire/brake/axle/suspension/frame system, I always would opt for the trailer which has the higher GVWR.

Ron

[Francesca_Knowl]

I doubt that weight can be used as any kind of correlative as pertains to trailers, safety-wise. A trailer isn't a car/passenger vehicle, where more weight often yields better protection for passengers.

I'm not even sure what's meant here by "safer"-? A trailer is added bulk/weight to a vehicle; and simple physics dictate that the heavier the trailer, the longer it will take to stop.

[outwestbound]

westend wrote:

outwestbound wrote:
If a travel trailer's load (all my cargo, liquids, batts, LP, etc.)PLUS dry trailer weights were hypothetically say 8,200lbs for two TTs I'm considering, but the GVWR on one was 9800 and the other 11,000, wouldn't the higher GVWR be the safest? Ignoring cost, wouldn't the TT with the highest GVWR, even if I don't need to put more cargo in it, essentially be safer due to stronger brake system?

That theory assumes that the higher GVWR trailer has different brakes. There are only so many choices in brake size out there.

Yes, I assumed the brakes would be different but clearly I need to lean more about the specs on all machinery involved; TT and TV. Industry information is sketchy for sure. I'd assumed the dry TT weights to be equal, so to a newbie, if what I put onto the TT was also equal, but the two trailers advertised very different GVWR, then something must account for the increased GVWR (presumably braking). The more kind folks like you all that respond to my questions the more I realize how loose the RV industry - perhaps more in TTs than say motorcoaches, is with facts.

I'm a numerical guy and this whole thing conceptually is a basic optimization subject to constraint exercise. But getting viable assumptions and data is killing me; it will just take time and I learn more every day.

[wmoses]

outwestbound wrote:
If a travel trailer's load (all my cargo, liquids, batts, LP, etc.)PLUS dry trailer weights were hypothetically say 8,200lbs for two TTs I'm considering, but the GVWR on one was 9800 and the other 11,000, wouldn't the higher GVWR be the safest? Ignoring cost, wouldn't the TT with the highest GVWR, even if I don't need to put more cargo in it, essentially be safer due to stronger brake system?

Not necessarily. It should be "stronger", but if the same brake assemblies were used between the two, and they are both loaded to their GVWR then the lighter RV would be "safer".

Also, if as you said the as-loaded weight is 8200# then if the same brakes were in both trailers, then they would be just as safe.

Lastly GVWR is a rating, not an indicator of safety. It could be an indicator of trailer chassis strength.

[Bumpyroad]

outwestbound wrote:
If a travel trailer's load (all my cargo, liquids, batts, LP, etc.)PLUS dry trailer weights were hypothetically say 8,200lbs for two TTs I'm considering, but the GVWR on one was 9800 and the other 11,000, wouldn't the higher GVWR be the safest? Ignoring cost, wouldn't the TT with the highest GVWR, even if I don't need to put more cargo in it, essentially be safer due to stronger brake system?

but under these exact conditions, somebody would come on here and whine that if your TV is capable of towing 10,000 lbs. you shouldn't get the 11,000 lb. one.
makes no sense to me.
bumpy

[RinconVTR]

Unless you've heard of dual axle TT's bending and breaking all over numerous forums, the two GVWR's are nothing more than a form of marketing to sell you on one or the other. One is not more "safe" over the other, this has nothing to do with safety. (Much like the truck world.)

I'm not sure how anyone could argue pulling more weight would be more safe, just because you're within ratings. It just doesn't work that way.

In short, GVWR is not how to shop for a TT, despite the fact this site loves to claim so. The only exception would be, does it truly offer more cargo capacity over the other trailer? Extra load capacity might come in handy, however it sounds to me like you know to over estimate already. So how much is too much, and would you ever possibly use it.

I'd use a few other factors to determine which TT to buy.