Is a HTT right for us? And a few other ??'s

[SurfnCamp]

Looking for a little guidance on improving our camping experiences (and thank you in advance for indulging a low-winded first post!):

First a little background:
- We are a family of 3 (me, DW and 18mo DD) and oftentimes camp by ourselves.
- We currently have a 2003 Niagara PUP (pre high-wall - but heavy anyway) that we have been towing with my 2006 Access Cab Tacoma w/ tow pkg (6500# max tow & 650# tongue capacity). I use a WDH, sway bar, Prodigy brake controller.
- We typically do about 5-6, long weekend trips in Southern/Central California, and then one or two, week-long trips to Yosemite every year. We usually go to CGs without hookups.
- We have loved this PUP, but the time and effort of packing, setup, tear-down etc is taking a lot of the fun out of trips. Our 18mo DD is so active now that it usually takes one of us parents to corral her while the other works on the setup/tear-down - which makes trips seem like all that much more effort.
- Our Niagara is getting "long in the tooth" and I feel like I'm chasing my tail fixing one niggling little problem after another. Every trip seems to require fixes before and after.
- We'd like to take some of the effort out of these camping trips as we'd camp more often, and take longer trips as well (i.e. Yellowstone, the Rockies etc).

Soooo, all of this has been leading me to look into whether a new or newer HTT would help us to enjoy this lifestyle even more.

Now my questions
1. Is setup and tear-down that significantly different between a PUP and HTT to the extent that it changes your perception of the level of effort? Again, we're hoping that ease of use translates into more use...

2. Are HTTs significantly more comfortable (in maintaining temperature) then a high-wall PUP with a good furnace and A/C? More comfort for DW & DD equals more trips for me!

3. We really like the open, airy feeling of our PUP. The limited experience we've had with TTs makes us appreciate how bright our PUP is. Are there HTTs that are more "PUP-like" in this regard?

4. What are some of the must-have/should have features/options on HTT? i.e. do all HTTs allow access to bathroom and fridge/kitchen when turtled?

5. Is it likely that our Yamaha EF2400iS 2400 watt generator will power the A/C on newer generation HTTs (elevation dependent of course)? This gennie will NOT power the AC on our current PUP (has older Coleman 15K BTU unit) even at sea level.

6. Do you have any specifics makes and models to recommend? We are not looking to go too big at the moment. We'd like to be able to use our current TV for the next year and possibly upgrade to a Tundra or other full-size truck after that. But even then, I don't see us needing a huge trailer just for the 3 of us (and possibly some tag-alongs periodically).

Thanks for any and all thoughts on this!

[SurfnCamp]

Thanks for lead on the Jayco hybrid dealer as well as the info on the RV show coming up in Pomona - not sure how I missed that. Perhaps my Google-Fu is not so strong.

It looks like we're back in the new market as the used 21SS I was investigating got sold before I could make the drive to check it.

So Pamona and Riverside here we come...

In the meantime, we're accelerating our plans for a new TV to replace the Tacoma. Probably going to be a used 5.7l Tundra but we haven't firmly decided yet. I'll probably pick some brains (and maybe start some battles) over in the TV forum.

Thanks again. You folks have been tremendously helpful!

[raymondmom]

RV show coming up at the Pomona Fairplex next week.

[gaylec]

"I can't seem to find any RV shows in SoCal coming up soon so we may have to drive around a bunch of dealers to actually see some units. HTTs just don't seem very popular with the dealers in the San Diego area."

Thanks again!"

If you are willing to drive up to the Riverside/Temecula area, Richardson's RV is the largest West Coast dealer of Jayco Hybrids in CA. They usually have a lot of models in stock that you can look at, AND if you are willing to look at one that they want to move off the lot in a hurry, they will make you a good deal!

We bought our 2012 X17Z right as they were bringing in the 2013 models, they dropped the price by $4k AND threw in a bunch of extras, like the oven (a $600 value). I suspect right about now they have brought in the 2014's, so any 2013's that are in stock on the lot, they probably want to move out fast, and you could probably get a really good deal on one!

[popupcamping]

SurfnCamp wrote:

popupcamping wrote:
No one has mentioned this but have you thought how well OR poorly for that matter your 8 year old 225HP Taco is going to haul such a big HTT with a slide?

Tow rating is 6500#
Max tongue weight 650 CALCULATION OF TRAILER WEIGHTS

Dry Weight Trailer 4,372
Options 400
Battery 45
Propane 2 20 lb Tanks 76
Water in Tank - Gals. 6 8.4lbs./gal 50
Stuff in Trailer (lbs) 400


Actual Weight Travel Trailer (TGVW) 5,293

Percentage of Trailer GVWR 82.7%

Under (Over) Trailer GVWR (lbs.) 1,109
---------------------------------

Please let me know if I've missed or overlooked anything.



I'll be testing the viability of this plan by renting an equivalent weight TT locally (no HTTs for rent) and towing it to a local CG for a weekend trip.

That will give me some better perspective on towing a bigger rig and camping in a TT/HTT.

Thoughts?

Your TW will be approaching if not over 700 lbs. Which is over the max. Would I personally worry? No...but just reminding you of the numbers. I would think maintaining a safe speed will be your biggest hurdle. That 4.0 L isn't a big powerplant

Unsure what is involved in renting. Does the rental place take the time to "dial in" the WDH?...do they even provide a WDH?

[SurfnCamp]

Thanks for the detailed info!
We are very likely to follow this exact plan if we can't get lucky locally.

But we have a few variables to deal with in this plan.
-We'll have to deal with getting rid of our Niagara on our own (more work for me!)
-Its getting to be fall so we have to think about weather and timing for a trip back east.
-Its unlikely that I'll want to pull a bigger HTT back from OH with my Tacoma so that may affect the timing of either the TV or HTT purchase.
-We still want to look at various models and floorplans prior to committing to a purchase. So we have to work out how to see the units that we're considering. Its challenging when so little is available on the west coast. I'm not seeing any big RV shows coming up either.


The waiting could be the worst part!
Thanks again

dadmomh wrote:
Well, if you have family in OH, your shopping may be over. Strongly suggest you go online to RV Wholesalers and check out their selection of hybrids. If you see something interesting, they'll email you the price. The price is the price...no games, no haggling. Our '07 ROO came from RVW and we saved over $4000 and we just made the move to the darkside and our savings was even more. Good folks to deal with. They're in Lakeview, OH...just east of I-75 and near Wapakoneta....east on some state hwy, think it's 33, but not sure. Allow plenty of time for your PDI and paperwork....new lending laws have generated more paperwork then we've had buying our house. Indian Lake CG - OH State - is about 10 min max from RVW and they have wonderful sites. Would not worry about full hookup. An excellent spot for the first night. If you find anything that's not quite right, it's a quick stop back by RVW and you'll be fixed up and on your way....we had an outside speaker that wasn't working....wire not connected and 10 min later we were outa there. If you don't see something in stock that meets your preferences, you can spec it out and they'll price it. Delivery times vary, so don't count on a "for sure" time....besides, you don't want to drive to OH twice. Good luck.

[SurfnCamp]

Thanks for the suggestion CJS - sure looks like a lot of trailer for very reasonable weight.

Unfortunately, I think we're going to end up with something bigger. We've gotten somewhat spoiled with the slideout and king-sized beds in our current PUP so I think we're likely to be in the 19-23' range for a HTT to "feel" significantly bigger than our PUP.

DW is still not happy about the idea of giving up our king beds as it is. I'm a little concerned too, as she's a complete bed hog! :E

cjs2000 wrote:
My KZ Sportsmen Classic 16BHT has the manual awning and the attached canvas of the bunk end, and it is a 2013. It tows well with my 2012 Sienna around the mid-atlantic area, dry weight is supposedly 2307 lbs. I've had it up to 4500ft in WV no problems towing. For some reason the KZ website lists the 16BHT at 2800 GVWR and 13" wheels, but mine was built with 14" wheels and is labeled as 3500 lbs GVWR.

[SurfnCamp]

Sorry about the formatting. I worked so hard on getting everything lined up in the message editor too. Dang interwebs...

[SurfnCamp]

popupcamping wrote:
No one has mentioned this but have you thought how well OR poorly for that matter your 8 year old 225HP Taco is going to haul such a big HTT with a slide?

I have thought about this of course - but would be happy to have someone check my thinking. And come on… my Tacoma has 236HP (not 225). Those 11 HP could make all the difference!

A couple of points:
My Tacoma, while being a 2006, just hit 50K miles last weekend. Well maintained, no mechanical issues at all. TRD pkg w/AAL.

Tow rating is 6500#
Max tongue weight is 650#

* This TV would only be used for short local trips - and only for the next 6 months or so. We will be buying a larger TV before making any bigger trips. Also, I will be riding solo in the truck as DW&DD drive separately since my truck is an Access Cab and can't seat the whole family anyway. Besides. I like to get to camp early and do some setup prior to the arrival of the "Child Tornado"! We have borrowed a full size when we have needed to in the past.

We will split cargo between the two vehicles and will travel with minimal water in the HTT system since there won't be any stops for a local trip.

So here is a somewhat worse case scenario with my Taco pulling a Roo 233S with minimal water and 400# of cargo in the TV and HTT:

Tow Vehicle GVWR 5,500
Tow Vehicle GCVWR 11,850
Theoretical Tow Rating (GCVWR - Dry Weight) 7,800
Trailer GVWR 6,402

GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, GCVWR=Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating


CALCULATION OF TOW VEHICLE WEIGHTS


Tow Vehicle Dry Wt. 4,050
Gasoline - Gallons 18 6 lbs/gal 108
People 200
Cargo and Stuff 400
Weight of Hitch Receiver and Accessories 60

Actual Weight Tow Vehicle (GVW) 4,818

Percentage of Tow Vehicle GVWR 87.6%

Under (Over) Tow Vehicle GVWR (lbs.) 682



CALCULATION OF TRAILER WEIGHTS

Dry Weight Trailer 4,372
Options 400
Battery 45
Propane 2 20 lb Tanks 76
Water in Tank - Gals. 6 8.4lbs./gal 50
Stuff in Trailer (lbs) 400


Actual Weight Travel Trailer (TGVW) 5,293

Percentage of Trailer GVWR 82.7%

Under (Over) Trailer GVWR (lbs.) 1,109
---------------------------------

Please let me know if I've missed or overlooked anything.

Obviously, I'd be pushing closer to the limits than I'd like and pulling a barn door will challenge the Taco more than our big PUP. But I think its doable for the 4-5 local trips we're likely to make before getting a bigger TV.

But again. I'm trying to be pragmatic here and I'll be testing the viability of this plan by renting an equivalent weight TT locally (no HTTs for rent) and towing it to a local CG for a weekend trip.

That will give me some better perspective on towing a bigger rig and camping in a TT/HTT.

Thoughts?


Thanks!

[dadmomh]

Well, if you have family in OH, your shopping may be over. Strongly suggest you go online to RV Wholesalers and check out their selection of hybrids. If you see something interesting, they'll email you the price. The price is the price...no games, no haggling. Our '07 ROO came from RVW and we saved over $4000 and we just made the move to the darkside and our savings was even more. Good folks to deal with. They're in Lakeview, OH...just east of I-75 and near Wapakoneta....east on some state hwy, think it's 33, but not sure. Allow plenty of time for your PDI and paperwork....new lending laws have generated more paperwork then we've had buying our house. Indian Lake CG - OH State - is about 10 min max from RVW and they have wonderful sites. Would not worry about full hookup. An excellent spot for the first night. If you find anything that's not quite right, it's a quick stop back by RVW and you'll be fixed up and on your way....we had an outside speaker that wasn't working....wire not connected and 10 min later we were outa there. If you don't see something in stock that meets your preferences, you can spec it out and they'll price it. Delivery times vary, so don't count on a "for sure" time....besides, you don't want to drive to OH twice. Good luck.

[popupcamping]

cjs2000 wrote:
My KZ Sportsmen Classic 16BHT has the manual awning and the attached canvas of the bunk end, and it is a 2013. It tows well with my 2012 Sienna around the mid-atlantic area, dry weight is supposedly 2307 lbs. I've had it up to 4500ft in WV no problems towing. For some reason the KZ website lists the 16BHT at 2800 GVWR and 13" wheels, but mine was built with 14" wheels and is labeled as 3500 lbs GVWR.

the problem with the KZ line is they are narrow. Hence the reason your van can get by towing it. The bed at 54" X only 74" long is way to short for me. I will stick with my 2 - 60" x 80" beds in my pup

[cjs2000]

My KZ Sportsmen Classic 16BHT has the manual awning and the attached canvas of the bunk end, and it is a 2013. It tows well with my 2012 Sienna around the mid-atlantic area, dry weight is supposedly 2307 lbs. I've had it up to 4500ft in WV no problems towing. For some reason the KZ website lists the 16BHT at 2800 GVWR and 13" wheels, but mine was built with 14" wheels and is labeled as 3500 lbs GVWR.

[popupcamping]

No one has mentioned this but have you thought how well OR poorly for that matter your 8 year old 225HP Taco is going to haul such a big HTT with a slide?

[SurfnCamp]

We are find this to be very true in just the few days we have been looking!

If we don't get (very) lucky and come across something local we are likely to do the same as you and buy in the midwest. We have family in OH and MI so we could make a vacation out of it anyway.

And thanks for the info on attached bunkends and manual awning. I'm not against them particularly but its just something else to go wrong in the future. But that is just one thing among a few hundred on a camping trailer!

bikendan wrote:
SurfnCamp, you'll find that hybrids aren't embraced by most West Coast dealers.

since very few dealers carry them, there are no deals on new ones and used ones fetch higher prices than NADA values them.
we spent 2 years trying to find what we wanted at a fair price.

we gave up and drove to the Midwest to get our new 23SS and still saved over $4,0000 after trip costs.
and we paid less than a 6 year-old used 19' hybrid sold out here for.

i'm just warning you that your search will be frustrating and don't look at what hybrids sell for in the Midwest. it'll just make you mad about what you'll have to pay for one out here.

and the pre-attached canvas appeared around the 2011 model year and all had electric awnings by then. don't know if you'll be able to find one with pre-attached canvas and a manual awning.

[bikendan]

SurfnCamp, you'll find that hybrids aren't embraced by most West Coast dealers.

since very few dealers carry them, there are no deals on new ones and used ones fetch higher prices than NADA values them.
we spent 2 years trying to find what we wanted at a fair price.

we gave up and drove to the Midwest to get our new 23SS and still saved over $4,0000 after trip costs.
and we paid less than a 6 year-old used 19' hybrid sold out here for.

i'm just warning you that your search will be frustrating and don't look at what hybrids sell for in the Midwest. it'll just make you mad about what you'll have to pay for one out here.

and the pre-attached canvas appeared around the 2011 model year and all had electric awnings by then. don't know if you'll be able to find one with pre-attached canvas and a manual awning.