I'm strongly considering upgrading to a 250/2500 or larger truck and I was wondering if there is break point where diesels just make more sense than gas. I know that as a rule diesels are better at pulling heavy loads than gas engines, but they also come with added maintenance costs. So I was wondering if there was a trailer weight where it just makes more sense to buy a diesel. If so, what is it? We currently don't own a TT, but we've been looking. We first started looking for something my existing truck could pull but we discovered that its not a very robust tower, so we are in the market for a new truck. Since this would be our first TT we don't want to go too big, nothing longer than 29' and no heavier than 8500 lbs GVWR. Some have told us to buy the truck, then fit the trailer to the truck and others have said buy the Trailer and buy the truck to fit it. Its basically the old chicken and egg debate. So we're trying to both at the same time.Lastly, I've noticed locally that diesel fuel is generally more expensive than regular gasoline, but I don't know if that's true around the country. Is it?

Yeah, diesel fuel is pretty much higher than gas everywhere, some places have a greater disparity than others.I suppose the new diesels have higher costs due to the DEF and related emissions issues/problems, but IMO older diesels are not that bad. The main difference between my diesel truck and my gas powered cars is that the diesel has to have the fuel filter changed around every 10,000 miles, that adds about $8. It does hold more oil, but the oil is cheaper than what goes in my car. For my 2001 Cummins vs my 2013 Hyundai that's about it. Like most vehicles, as the complication increases so does the maintenance costs and repair costs. My advice would be to buy the truck to fit the trailer. That way if you find the trailer that really rocks your boat, you won't have to worry about whether the truck can handle it.

Unless you're pulling more than running empty, a gas engine makes more sense financially. At 29' and 8500# ish, a 2500/250 with the gas engine and 4.10/4.30 gears will have more than enough pulling power. I pulled a 37' triple slide 5er (12k lbs) with a 2014 2500 6.4L Hemi, and the truck handled it easily. I camp in the Canadian Rockies every year so it had plenty of grade climbing too. Never a problem. Does a diesel pull better? Yes. Is it worth the increased cost in initial purchase and maintenance? That is up to you. The fact is though, for the RV size you are considering a gas engine will do the job without struggling.One other thing to keep in mind is that the current gas engine offering from GM is a bit of a dog when it compared to Ford and Ram. They will soon upgrade it. So, if you're a GM fan, it would be well worth waiting until they offer something more competitive than the current 6.0L.

The idea that diesels have higher maintenance costs is just a myth. I'd like to see someone demonstrate that it is true. If you will be pulling up mountains then a diesel is much better. Otherwise plan to be grinding up slopes at 30-40 mph. Diesels get somewhat better, not great, but better mileage when pulling heavy loads. They also have much better resale value.This applies to towing a heavy RV like a fiver or a big TT. Not the mini TT in the photo above. If you will only be hauling a small RV and will not want a bigger one then get a gasser.They are heavier and have that higher initial purchase price. Fuel can be slightly more difficult to find but it seems to me that more stations are carrying diesel now days.

The break point comes when you decide whether you like being passed or like doing the passing with your trailer hooked up. In your case, given we are all intimately familiar with your situation, a diesel does not make financial sense for you. You’re pulling (maybe? going to be?) a trailer that 1/2 ton trucks can handle so that, combined with the “cost” (which is decidedly more for those that pay retail for every service) makes a diesel less attractive for you IMO from a financial perspective. Now if you want to own the roadwith your camper in tow, get a new diesel!Still not certain why you’re after a truck that you admittedly can’t daily drive, when your goal was to have a daily driver AND camper puller. Don’t let the rvnet ninnies scare you away from making the right overall decision for all your driving needs.However, fuel being harder to find is NOT one of the reasons to not buy a diesel.....

Diesel costs more to maintain is an old wives tale. Modern diesels with the exception of fuel and oil are no more expensive to run than a gas motor. While diesels dont like idling around town on the highway they are a joy to drive. There are a few gas motors now that are rated to tow heavy, diesels are still way more capable of handling heavy loads.

Is there a Diesel or Gas break point? | Good Sam Community

Grit_dog
Navigator
Dec 18, 2018
So beerbrewer, this is what , like your 5th thread on what truck should I buy.....
It’s all fun talking/bantering and reccomending.
So back to the reccomending..... since I/we all know more about your uses, needs, wants, limitations etc than maybe we should, it becomes very clear what is the perfect tow rig/daily driver truck for you. And it’s not too far from what you already have.
Pic your favorite flavor of 1/2 ton, big engine, deepest gears offered and tow package.
You will have to do zero to make it tow the trailer you’re considering, like a champ.
If you want it to ride rough and tough like a 3/4 ton, put some E load tires on it and a helper spring or bags. Put too much air in the tires just like the NHSTA is trying to require on 3/4 tons and let er eat!
Grit_dog
Navigator
Dec 18, 2018
ppine wrote:
Most of the people that don't like diesels have never owned one.
I feel the joy every time I start the 7.3.
The more miles you drive, the more you pull, the more you need a truck the more you need a diesel.
My 2002 Ford is easily worth twice what a similar gas truck is worth, and going up in value.

^This! I agree with. Well said.
ppine
Explorer II
Dec 18, 2018
Most of the people that don't like diesels have never owned one.
I feel the joy every time I start the 7.3.
The more miles you drive, the more you pull, the more you need a truck the more you need a diesel.
My 2002 Ford is easily worth twice what a similar gas truck is worth, and going up in value.
ib516
Explorer II
Dec 18, 2018
rhagfo wrote:
ib516 wrote:
Other than at 11000 ft (one road in the whole of the North American Continent), I have never seen, or heard of the 6.4L Hemi acting the way it does on the Ike Gauntlet test at high altitude.

I have towed 12k (GCW was scaled at 21k) with mine all over the Canadian Rockies on all the grades there (6 to 7%, some near Radium at 11%) and never been down to 20 or 30 mph. There was only one time that I experienced personally that I couldn't accelerate when I wanted to. Times have changed. The newest crop of modern gassers have plenty of power.

In fact, my 2014 Ram 2500 gasser had:
- More payload
- Higher GAWRs *front and rear
- Higher max tow rating (by over 2000#)
- Higher GCWR by 2000#
Than my 2007 3500 SRW Cummins had. The only thing that was lower was my GVWR. The 3500 SRW was 10,100#, the 2500 was 10,000# even. The 2007 Cummins downshifted less, but I dare say a stop watch would see them nearly the same towing the same 12k 5er that I did with both. Real world facts.

The gasser got 7-9 mpg, usually 8ish, the 5.9L Cummins got about 9-11 mpg, usually 10ish hauling the same 37' 5er. Real world.

You do realize that in 2013 Ram finally woke up and put some real numbers to their trucks? Heck my DD is the proud owner of a very nice 2004 Ram CTD 3500 DRW GVWR 12,200#. If I were to buy a 2013+ Ram 3500 CTD SRW with a GVWR of 12,300#I am actually looking at a lightly used 2013+ Ram CTD DRW with a GVWR of 14,000#

Then there is my 2001 Ram 2500 CTD with 3.55's and a 5 speed manual, it has a small timing chip and RV275 injectors, can pull 55 mph up a 6% to 7% grade coming out of a 45 mph corner, in 4th gear (direct drive)pulling our 12,500# 5er, 20,500# GCVW.

I hate to get rid of this truck, except I am currently well over the 8,800# GVWR.

Oh absolutely. And like I have said before, if you are towing really heavy or very often, a diesel is the way to go.

I too had a 24v (2002). I had an Edge EZ and RV275 injectors. Great combo for that generation truck.
rhagfo
Explorer III
Dec 18, 2018
ktmrfs wrote:
when we bought our 2004.5 duramax, there was IMHO a very noticeable difference between gas and diesel towing performance.

Fast forward to when we got the 2015.5 duramax. Gas engines have advanced to the point where towing capability is pretty much equal.

Yes, we still went with diesel, but in reality differences in tow ratings on the gas vs. diesel is pretty minimal, gasser will give higher payload, worse mileage, and need to run much higher RPM on grades. Diesel will cost more, get better mileage, and run lower RPM on grades.

Both will do good job towing in todays trucks. IMHO Pick what you like.

The differences in tow ratings minimal? Not sure what you are referring to, but gasers tend to top out about 15,000# Diesel about 25K to 30K. Payload doesn't mean squat if you can't move it easily at a reasonable speed.
rhagfo
Explorer III
Dec 18, 2018
ib516 wrote:
Other than at 11000 ft (one road in the whole of the North American Continent), I have never seen, or heard of the 6.4L Hemi acting the way it does on the Ike Gauntlet test at high altitude.

I have towed 12k (GCW was scaled at 21k) with mine all over the Canadian Rockies on all the grades there (6 to 7%, some near Radium at 11%) and never been down to 20 or 30 mph. There was only one time that I experienced personally that I couldn't accelerate when I wanted to. Times have changed. The newest crop of modern gassers have plenty of power.

In fact, my 2014 Ram 2500 gasser had:
- More payload
- Higher GAWRs *front and rear
- Higher max tow rating (by over 2000#)
- Higher GCWR by 2000#
Than my 2007 3500 SRW Cummins had. The only thing that was lower was my GVWR. The 3500 SRW was 10,100#, the 2500 was 10,000# even. The 2007 Cummins downshifted less, but I dare say a stop watch would see them nearly the same towing the same 12k 5er that I did with both. Real world facts.

The gasser got 7-9 mpg, usually 8ish, the 5.9L Cummins got about 9-11 mpg, usually 10ish hauling the same 37' 5er. Real world.

You do realize that in 2013 Ram finally woke up and put some real numbers to their trucks? Heck my DD is the proud owner of a very nice 2004 Ram CTD 3500 DRW GVWR 12,200#. If I were to buy a 2013+ Ram 3500 CTD SRW with a GVWR of 12,300#I am actually looking at a lightly used 2013+ Ram CTD DRW with a GVWR of 14,000#

Then there is my 2001 Ram 2500 CTD with 3.55's and a 5 speed manual, it has a small timing chip and RV275 injectors, can pull 55 mph up a 6% to 7% grade coming out of a 45 mph corner, in 4th gear (direct drive)pulling our 12,500# 5er, 20,500# GCVW.

I hate to get rid of this truck, except I am currently well over the 8,800# GVWR.
valhalla360
Navigator
Dec 18, 2018
It's all about heavy towing (99.99% chance you will never get the up front cost back from better MPG).

Around 14-15klbs, modern gas engine trucks reach their rating limits...after that you need a diesel if you want to be in the trucks ratings. You can look up the different manufacturers to get the specific numbers.
ktmrfs
Explorer II
Dec 18, 2018
when we bought our 2004.5 duramax, there was IMHO a very noticeable difference between gas and diesel towing performance.

Fast forward to when we got the 2015.5 duramax. Gas engines have advanced to the point where towing capability is pretty much equal.

Yes, we still went with diesel, but in reality differences in tow ratings on the gas vs. diesel is pretty minimal, gasser will give higher payload, worse mileage, and need to run much higher RPM on grades. Diesel will cost more, get better mileage, and run lower RPM on grades.

Both will do good job towing in todays trucks. IMHO Pick what you like.
ib516
Explorer II
Dec 18, 2018
Other than at 11000 ft (one road in the whole of the North American Continent), I have never seen, or heard of the 6.4L Hemi acting the way it does on the Ike Gauntlet test at high altitude.

I have towed 12k (GCW was scaled at 21k) with mine all over the Canadian Rockies on all the grades there (6 to 7%, some near Radium at 11%) and never been down to 20 or 30 mph. There was only one time that I experienced personally that I couldn't accelerate when I wanted to. Times have changed. The newest crop of modern gassers have plenty of power.

In fact, my 2014 Ram 2500 gasser had:
- More payload
- Higher GAWRs *front and rear
- Higher max tow rating (by over 2000#)
- Higher GCWR by 2000#
Than my 2007 3500 SRW Cummins had. The only thing that was lower was my GVWR. The 3500 SRW was 10,100#, the 2500 was 10,000# even. The 2007 Cummins downshifted less, but I dare say a stop watch would see them nearly the same towing the same 12k 5er that I did with both. Real world facts.

The gasser got 7-9 mpg, usually 8ish, the 5.9L Cummins got about 9-11 mpg, usually 10ish hauling the same 37' 5er. Real world.
blt2ski
Moderator
Dec 18, 2018
What grades are you talking about going 20-30 mph? typical frewway at 3-6% max? or 20-30% on side roads? My 454 gas rigs could do all of 15% at 20K lbs before they literally stalled out, could not go forward....My 96 K3500 with a 5 sp manual, 6.5 TD stalled at around 30%. My 05 dmax, believe it or not, with twice the torque, but way the frig taller gears, stall at 24-26%! my Navstar with a 175/330 motor, least torque, least HP, can pull 30K up a 30% grade. Due to better gears in trns and axels. Performance leaves a lot to be desired depending on many factor, not being talked about.......
Cost? talking ROI etc....could be as little as 2-3 years as noted, could be as high as 5-7 years in my case. ROI is too long. 2-3 years I can handle, 5-7, no effing way!
As noted, there is not a right or wrong as to which is better etc. But at todays cost difference of a diesel, the initial cost etc to too high for me. I do admit, if at elevation a lot, ie above 5000', maybe as little as 3000 feet, a forced induction motor getting rated HP to upwards of 10,000', is rather nice, vs the losing of 2-3% per 1000', NO IT IS NOT the 10% loss per 1000' as noted above a few posts, then at 10,000', you have what no power?!?!?!??? yeah right!
I'm giving this post until AM, then you can take this BS to the stuck diesel vs gas sticky! As there is really no right or wrong answer!

Marty