Lifted truck towing :(

[yillb]

Hey Guys,

I'm trying to determine if my math is correct, hoping some of you that understand this better than me can assist.

I have a Dodge ram 1500 ( 2016 ), with a 6" pro-comp lift. It's just spacers, but I do have proper control arms, sway bars, pretty much everything to make it not a budget lift, the only thing still stock is the springs.

With that said, my GVWR is 6900 on my truck, with me, my wife, the lift ( heavy ), and two children, the truck comes in at 6400 pounds, that leaves me with 500 for payload ? meaning i'd have to get a TT in the 5k range, is that correct ?

I've added airbags, it gives me 500lbs on each side, effectively, 1k additional payload capacity. I'm trying to tow a TT between 6500, and 7500LBS, the truck itself is rated for 10500, However, due to GVRW i'm concerned i might be over doing it. I had everything professionally installed by a place that sells RV's ( just a coincadence ), so I understand the sales aspect, versus the actual utility aspect of what i'm trying to do. I found a very nice 28foot TT i'd really like to bring home, I'd like to ( using my basic math here ), be sure that i'm in a safe range here. My tires are rated just fine, and my sag will be minimal with the bags in. Any insight would greatly be appreciated.

[FLY_4_FUN]

That 28 ft TT you are looking at shows as 34 ft long, so I really suspect its going to be a handful for a lifted 1/2 ton. Im not going to haggle over numbers but I pulled a 30ft 6500lb tt with a similar 1/2 ton with 3:55 gearing and 2wd and eventually I got tired of fighting wind, hills and passing semis. I had a top notch hitch but sometimes you cant beat physics and lack of oomph in the truck. My .02

[MitchF150]

The lift raises the truck center of gravity, so it's more "top heavy" now.

Add the longer drop shank, it's going to add additional leverage to the hitch and the truck.

Just like using a longer crow bar compared to a shorter one.

I'm not saying you can't tow "anything", but you really can't go by the "tow rating" even if you didn't mod the truck... The "tow rating" does not always mean a full size TT... It could be any kind of trailer.

Anyway, I hear what you are saying and you are learning for sure..

Some of us just had to learn the old fashioned way... Before there was this interweb thing and keyboard commandos everywhere, it was all trial and error and what experience we picked up along the way..

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Mitch

[yillb]

BillyW wrote:
I essentially have the same truck without the lift or larger tires. And I have 3.92 gears. My truck tows my 6000ish lb, 24' trailer awesomely. The Rams are conservatively rated in my opinion with that 6900 lb GVWR. The total GAWR is 7900 lb if I remember correctly. Not that I would want to push it that far, but I believe that gives me some wiggle room. I think it would apply to you too. However, if it were me with your lifted truck, I wouldn't go above 27-28 feet and perhaps 6500 lb, which is still going to put you over GVWR by at least 250 lbs. And I question if that 10,000 lb tow rating applies to the 3.21 gears.

Thanks for the info, max towing on these gears is like 8050, pretty low, but the trailer I want is about 6600 pounds. I'm confused as to why others are thinking the lift drastically alters the towing loads? Its a pro comp lift and the 2016 rams have coin springs, the lift itself merely raises the springs, I can't logically see how that would affect the actual payload or toeing ability. Springs and tires are what have a dramatic impact on the load aren't they? I also have a much beefier sway bar, and airbags inside my springs, moreover I've confirmed a ldh is available with my hitch being dropped, the tongue weight (weighed it today) came in right at 755 pounds, which puts me over my gvwr by about 200 pounds, I'm completely level due to my air bags.

Additionally weighing the truck with three adults and two children and the trailer puts my overall weight at 12900 pounds (with trailer, tanks, batteries). While I only got it weighed there to verify my math, I'm really not seeing how I'm over my max allowed weight for truck and trailer combined? The sales man says I'm fine, but I take his word with a grain of salt. Can anyone explain why exactly a lift with spacers would actually alter anything tow wise when all the parts are factory, just moved up in the air by 6 inches ?

Fwiw the tongue weight was weight their on a scale st 755 pounds , my truck was weighed with myself my wife and my two kids at 6450, that plus 755 is 7205, my gvwr is 6900 so I'm over on that by 305 pounds. And that's only because of the weight of the actual lift components. It sounds like to me the only real issue here is wether my actual components in the lift is added to the gvwr? The axles can handle well more than they advertise, aside from that, everything else is stock, of course I have air bags so my springs aren't an issue, surely the weight rating isn't based completely on the axle right ? I've also seen some talk of breaks, if the trailer has electric breaks, then what's the big deal with that? If the truck is rated to tow more than I'm towing and I have electric breaks, how can that be an issue?

Thanks fellas!

[TurnThePage]

I essentially have the same truck without the lift or larger tires. And I have 3.92 gears. My truck tows my 6000ish lb, 24' trailer awesomely. The Rams are conservatively rated in my opinion with that 6900 lb GVWR. The total GAWR is 7900 lb if I remember correctly. Not that I would want to push it that far, but I believe that gives me some wiggle room. I think it would apply to you too. However, if it were me with your lifted truck, I wouldn't go above 27-28 feet and perhaps 6500 lb, which is still going to put you over GVWR by at least 250 lbs. And I question if that 10,000 lb tow rating applies to the 3.21 gears.

[Community Alumni]

^ I agree. Those larger tires are effectively raising (numerically lowering) your gear ratio. You already have a fairly high ratio with the 3.21's. The larger tires only make things worse. The lift really isn't going to help you at all. It has effectively changed the geometry of the truck. Handling is affected and you're a lot less stable with such a large lift. Because of the lift, you can no longer depend on the factory tow numbers since those were set with factory parts or their equivalents.

[dodge_guy]

Even with the 8 speed and 3.21 ratio, with 35" tires its not going to tow well at all. your looking at an effective ratio with the larger tires of around 2.90. that is not going to work to your advantage. and yes gas mileage will be horrible (I`m guessing around 5mpg, 6 at best!) with the small fuel tank you will be limited on distance. I wouldn't want that.

As far as trailer weights. always add approx. 1200lbs to the dry weight. so 6600lbs dry will weigh in around 7800lbs. this will give you a loaded tongue weight of around 1100lbs. and don't forget to add in the weight of the WD hitch.

As far as I`m concerned its a no-go. either return the truck back to stock or trade up. your to far away from even being able to try it out to see if you like camping. in fact you aren't going to like the drive while towing the trailer.

[Huntindog]

time2roll wrote:
The lift probably derates the GVWR to a certain extent and handling ability.
You are really looking for a POP-UP tent trailer or a new truck.
JMHO

We have a winner.
Lifting the truck does many things that are bad for towing. The figures that the manufacturer gave the truck was based on as it left the factory. IF they were to rate it as it now sits, it would be less on all counts.... A LOT less.

[time2roll]

The lift probably derates the GVWR to a certain extent and handling ability.
You are really looking for a POP-UP tent trailer or a new truck.
JMHO

[yillb]

n7bsn wrote:

lastorms wrote:
The trucks components are still only rated for your GVWR i.e. your axle and brakes. The air bags reduce sag but won't increase your GVWR because of this. Hope this helps.

Exactly my point, thanks

You didn't say one way or the other if you also got taller tires with the lift.. (I can't imagine anyone getting a 6" lift and not also getting taller tires)

If you did, did you also get new axle gearing to compensate for the taller tires? Taller tires will affect your final drive ratio and basically bog your engine down if you didn't change gears

Something I forgot, yes the tow rating is based on the actual ratio of engine RPM to miles traveled, bigger tires effects that

Hey Guys,

It's important to note i'm not trying to " justify " anything, I was merely overly concerned with my towing abilities. Yes, I did get larger tires, they are 35" tires.

As for the gearing, while I understand many of you are very used to the traditional 3.21 3.55 3.75 3.92 4.10, etc gearing, that's really not so much an issue. The dodge 8 speed really compensates for the gearing issues. I have 3.21 gears, mostly due to MPG with the larger tires, i had not really intended to tow with this particular rig, so i opted for the best MPG i could get with the larger tires. However, bad gas mileage isn't really going to be a problem, money isn't even really the problem, I mmight just go trade it in on a cummins, however; I'm not 100% me, and my family will enoy camping, i don't want to invest in another 50k truck, and take the 20k loss i'm going to take on the trade in unless i absolutely HAVE to, if that makes sense.

I don't think I know everything, and I certainly know all of you are going to know better than me. I'm merely trying to ascertain what i'm looking at here. Nothing more, nothing less.

The replies are helpful, for sure. As a side note, my RPM's are correct, as is my speedometer. When I ask seemingly rude questions , like " why ", it's not because i'm an ass, it's beacuse I *want* to learn, i dont want to be the keyboard warrior that thought he knew everything. you guys tow these things all the time, I, do not, in fact, ive never owned one. I've towed plenty, but i've never actually made it a hobby or anything, if that makes sense.

The weight i'm describing is a middle between dry, and a little full? the gross on the trailer i want
.

Hitch weight : 858lbs
Gross weight - 9k lbs
Dry weight - 6605lbs

It's the 2017 30USBH Heartland trail runner. I know it's big 😞 but, i REALLY REALLY like the idea of the " back room " for my children, one of my kids is under 2 years old, and she wakes up if you make noise, i figure the closest i'll get to a " room " is with this trailer. I'd LOVE suggestions if anyone knows a smaller / lighter setup that would offer the same " room " type setup ( outside of the master ?).

Once again, appreciated fellas', please don't mstake my " curiousness " for me being a knowing it all stuck up ahole, that's not what's happening here.

Thanks!

[n7bsn]

lastorms wrote:
The trucks components are still only rated for your GVWR i.e. your axle and brakes. The air bags reduce sag but won't increase your GVWR because of this. Hope this helps.

Exactly my point, thanks

You didn't say one way or the other if you also got taller tires with the lift.. (I can't imagine anyone getting a 6" lift and not also getting taller tires)

If you did, did you also get new axle gearing to compensate for the taller tires? Taller tires will affect your final drive ratio and basically bog your engine down if you didn't change gears

Something I forgot, yes the tow rating is based on the actual ratio of engine RPM to miles traveled, bigger tires effects that

[dodge_guy]

I`m assuming you have larger tires. Have you changed the axle gears to bring the gearing back to factory specs? have you done anything with the brakes to help with stopping the larger tires? towing with a lifted truck brings up its own set of problems.

The trailer weights you are mentioning, are those dry weight or GVWR? A 7k lb TT will end up with an 875lb tongue weight (12.5% properly loaded). and don't forget the weight of the WD hitch (approx. 125lbs). that's 1000 lbs.

[MitchF150]

You didn't say one way or the other if you also got taller tires with the lift.. (I can't imagine anyone getting a 6" lift and not also getting taller tires)

If you did, did you also get new axle gearing to compensate for the taller tires? Taller tires will affect your final drive ratio and basically bog your engine down if you didn't change gears.

Not sure what you are trying to justify here? You already weighed your rig with the lift and all, and you came up with your actual payload left.. #500.

That does sound about right for what you have done.

Only you can determine what ratings you want to go with..

I've towed over GVWR on trucks before and the world did not end.. 🙂

But, that was my choice and it's what I did. But, that's just it.. It was my choice.

Good luck!

Mitch

[lastorms]

The trucks components are still only rated for your GVWR i.e. your axle and brakes. The air bags reduce sag but won't increase your GVWR because of this. Hope this helps.

[yillb]

n7bsn wrote:
Your math looks close

However the airbags do not add to GVWR or CGVWG

With that much lift, you might have to lift the trailer also, either that or use a drop hitch (which usually means no sway or equilizer bars)

The trailer needs to be level while towing.

Hmm, if you don't mind me asking, why? I assumed it was due to suspension, but because my lift is UNDER my suspension, i can't imagine that really affecting the actual payload, or, is my logic flawed here?

[n7bsn]

Your math looks close

However the airbags do not add to GVWR or CGVWG

With that much lift, you might have to lift the trailer also, either that or use a drop hitch (which usually means no sway or equilizer bars)

The trailer needs to be level while towing.