New brakes for '11 F350 PSD?

[Orcusomega]

Well, the TV is in need of new front brakes, so I was wondering if anyone had good experiences with aftermark pads and/rotors?

I tow my 35' TT pretty regularly, and believe an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure 🙂 Especially brakes!

Anyone have good/bad experiences? Ive used ceramic pads/vented rotors in cars but I'm not sure how that translates to SD trucks...

Thanks!

[SLE]

Dissipating gasses when the pads "gas out" is definitely another benefit and one of the primary reasons for slotted rotors. The heat dissipation does depends how you use your brakes. You'd have to do some reading on this however they do need more of an on/off application to be fully effective. I figure the benefits of a good set of drilled and slotted rotors far outweigh the negatives when they can be had at cost less than OEM. To each their own.

I will look for the test however in a simulation for heat of using a drilled rotor vs that of solid, braking for 5 seconds on, 15 seconds off, and repeating this over a three minute period resulted in 22% lose of braking force and a 150 degree hotter temp on the solid rotor. That 22% figure has a lot to do with the gas off but lower temps also help with that.

You are right however that cross drilled rotor are much more prevalent to develop stress cracks under heavy use and that they should be occasionally checked throughout the pad/rotor service life. there is some discussion out their that cast holes don't exhibit this problem as much as drilled holes however I do not know of any cast versions for our trucks. If you rotate tires on a 5-10k schedule as most manufactures suggest, a visual check can be done at that time fairly easily.

This still comes back to the fact that there are better products available at prices similar and or cheaper to OEM, even if you want solid rotors.

[mich800]

jus2shy wrote:

SLE wrote:
Well, I know a slotted cross drilled rotor is going to dissipate heat better than one that is not. Therefor they will stop better under most circumstances with heaving braking such as we do with our trucks towing RVs and so forth. When I can do this at a cost equal to or cheaper than OEM, it certainly appears to provide a very good reason to change! Just some food for thought.

Be careful with those cross-drilled rotors. They like to develop very fine cracks around the holes and sometimes slots (although much less likely to occur on slots). Especially if you're rough or hard on the brakes (lots of temperature differentials). I personally prefer solid surface as you don't give many edges for cracks to form NICO Forum. The slotted ones I can live with as well as the new J-hook styles. But the ones fully drilled-through, I don't think I'd ever buy a set of those rotors after personally seeing the stress cracks as shown on this forum on vehicles that aren't even tracked at all.

True, and drilled and/or slotted rotors are not to dissipate heat. They are to allow the gasses to disburse during high heat stops. Used primarily in racing or on the street where the "look" is desired.

[jus2shy]

SLE wrote:
Well, I know a slotted cross drilled rotor is going to dissipate heat better than one that is not. Therefor they will stop better under most circumstances with heaving braking such as we do with our trucks towing RVs and so forth. When I can do this at a cost equal to or cheaper than OEM, it certainly appears to provide a very good reason to change! Just some food for thought.

Be careful with those cross-drilled rotors. They like to develop very fine cracks around the holes and sometimes slots (although much less likely to occur on slots). Especially if you're rough or hard on the brakes (lots of temperature differentials). I personally prefer solid surface as you don't give many edges for cracks to form NICO Forum. The slotted ones I can live with as well as the new J-hook styles. But the ones fully drilled-through, I don't think I'd ever buy a set of those rotors after personally seeing the stress cracks as shown on this forum on vehicles that aren't even tracked at all.

[maxwell11]

I just replaced the brakes on my 2005 dodge 2500 with 80K.

most on the dodge site said to replace the rotors and pads together and not mess with cutting down your rotors as you are going to be towing heavy loads.

so that is what I did,
they appear to work fine, some said to drain and replace brake fluid, but I did not do that,

[SLE]

Well, I know a slotted cross drilled rotor is going to dissipate heat better than one that is not. Therefor they will stop better under most circumstances with heaving braking such as we do with our trucks towing RVs and so forth. When I can do this at a cost equal to or cheaper than OEM, it certainly appears to provide a very good reason to change! Just some food for thought.

[djousma]

SLE wrote:
I gave Rotor-Pro's a call and they set me with there heavy duty pads and slotted and cross drilled rotors for all four corners a fantastic price for my F250. So far I've been happy with them but I only have about 8k miles on them. Thus far I have not noticed any dust on my polished rims! I don't remember the exact price, I think it was around $300-$400 shipped. What I do remember is they were about $50 cheaper than buying only front rotors and pads from the local dealer!

I just ordered Ford OEM rotors and pads for all 4 corners online for $450 including the shipping. I see no reason to change from OEM. Just turned 70K on my truck, and there is some pad left, but wanted to change them out anyway.

[BenK]

Bob, agree...there is no price for my loved one's life and limb...seems
a rarity here and other forums... :E

But,

you'll continue to have that kind of braking problems if you do NOT find and/or
understand the root cause

Did you read the links I posted a few days ago?

Bedding in is my guess on your problem. Especially if you scrub off the transferred
friction material off the rotors surface.

Magic to some who followed that. Magic as in their 'warped' rotors were no longer
warped...

One asked why? and told them re-read those articles. Mainly the Stoptech, which
I agree and disagree.

They say no such thing as warped rotors. Nope, I've mic'd a few with large runouts
So there is such a thing, but with that being said...agree that most are not
and in need of rebedding.

Am constantly rebedding mine in all of my vehicles...well not the Silverado as
often because I don't drive that one as hard...a 34 year old vehicle should not
be driven that hard...often.. 😉

[Orcusomega]

Grit dog wrote:

Orcusomega wrote:
Ok, I am going to look into OEM brakes - I don't really have any significant complaints, but dont have any complaints about the OEM pads. Dusty, yes, but i dont really care about that much... I will trade off clean for safe 🙂

I will replace the rotors and pads (I don't know how they were treated, and for the price, better to replace them since they are basically off with the removal of 2 extra bolts).

Thanks for all the help!

Bob

Only 75k on front pads on a truck that was used otr is not very long service life at all. Especially with the smart transmissions and OE exhaust brakes now.
100k + mi is common for haulers. Even got 80 k out of the fronts on my wife's Ram and she never downshifts to slow down. Just throws it in neutral and clamps on the binders!
Why would you replace the rotors if they are not warped or not serviceable? It's not like you will get better braking just cause the rotors are new.
I wouldn't even reccomend having them turned unless they are warped. You can scuff them up when installing the new pads and the the new pads will bed in fine.

My purpose in replacing the rotors is this: I don't know 100% the history of the truck, since I bought it used with ~56K or so on the clock. I look in the rear view mirror at the family in the back seat: is the cost of two rotors worth the risk, if I am up to my elbows working on the brakes anyways?

Call me picky - but I've always felt that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure... in this case, likely 10 lbs of prevention is better than 18,000 lbs of hurt 😞 In all seriousness though, I want to know it was done, with what, by whom - I have precious cargo - not worth NOT swapping the rotors, at least this time. Next time? I know the history, and what brand, so I would be comfortable having them cut if necessary...

Thanks for everyone's input!

Bob

[Garry_Gayle]

Why not go OEM? they lasted 75K, have your considered NAPA Ultra Premium pads & rotors? I have 87K on my 08 F450 mostly towing a 33'Cameo and now a 38'Mobile Suites thru the western states with OEM.

[SLE]

Good gosh, put some better pads and rotors on the dang thing and be done with it! I've never heard such a bunch of hog wash about friction and algorithms and so on. If you honestly think that stuff go ahead and stick with oem, I'll keep my rotor pros or go to EBC's or Hawk and have far better performance everywhere!

Honestly though, the friction coefficient even on stock OEM equip is continuously changing during the life cycle of the brakes and rotors and through the different range of atmospheric conditions and temperatures. That must be one hell of a set of algorithms to be able to adjust on the fly for temperature, humidity/moisture, the age of the pad and if they are glazed over or rough from driving hundreds of miles of gravel; and yet afford everyone great braking performance throughout the life of the brake system; give me a break!

[BenK]

JamesBr wrote:
snip....
Yeah, so not true. But believe what you must, but don't state it as fact unless you repair or design ABS systems. I was actually talking about all the systems I have encountered have always worked the same way. The pump only activates when it "thinks" there is a locked up wheel or one slowing greater then the vehicle speed which again indicates tire lock up. In every case of premature ABS activation it has never once been the brake pads that caused it.

The only complication that's happen over the past 3 years (and again does not take into account the brakes coefficient factor is that now even under throttle or based on g load the car can apply one or more of the individual calipers to assist in traction/ride control. Still does not require you to reprogram the abs ecu every time you replace brake pads to ensure the have the correct coefficient.

Agree

'Thinks' is based on their look tables and is why when changing the
gear ratio (either directly with a new gear set, or changing tire
dia/rev's per mile)

The simple and very fast calculation is to look up the tire's rev's per
mile (MPH) vs the actual rev's per whatever time frame it is using
at that moment

Then it's algorithms (look up tables) will tell it whether the tire
is about to are skidding or not

The real complication is when the ABS system is also married to traction
control and the new anti-sway for towing (those highly integrated
systems)


The co-efficient of friction is part of the fray, but not directly
with the way I know it used to be and think still the case on how
they control.

Friction is not a consideration, directly, but it's outcome...in the
rev's per mile the tone ring (really just a gear) reports back via
the Hall Sensor

[AH64ID]

Has nothing to do with "premature", has everything to do with proper application and how it preforms when it is supposed to be. I have no idea why you are stuck on premature operation, I was simply talking about proper operation and how they react once the ABS is actually needed.

[JamesBr]

ah64id wrote:
ABS systems contain algorithms for application that are based on the OEM brake pad coefficient, any change in cF will result in a change to the ABS performance. Not sure why you think different, but that's how modern ABS works. It's possible that 20 years ago it didn't matter, but on today's vehicles it does.

Yeah, so not true. But believe what you must, but don't state it as fact unless you repair or design ABS systems. I was actually talking about all the systems I have encountered have always worked the same way. The pump only activates when it "thinks" there is a locked up wheel or one slowing greater then the vehicle speed which again indicates tire lock up. In every case of premature ABS activation it has never once been the brake pads that caused it.

The only complication that's happen over the past 3 years (and again does not take into account the brakes coefficient factor is that now even under throttle or based on g load the car can apply one or more of the individual calipers to assist in traction/ride control. Still does not require you to reprogram the abs ecu every time you replace brake pads to ensure the have the correct coefficient.

[Grit_dog]

Orcusomega wrote:
Ok, I am going to look into OEM brakes - I don't really have any significant complaints, but dont have any complaints about the OEM pads. Dusty, yes, but i dont really care about that much... I will trade off clean for safe 🙂

I will replace the rotors and pads (I don't know how they were treated, and for the price, better to replace them since they are basically off with the removal of 2 extra bolts).

Thanks for all the help!

Bob

Only 75k on front pads on a truck that was used otr is not very long service life at all. Especially with the smart transmissions and OE exhaust brakes now.
100k + mi is common for haulers. Even got 80 k out of the fronts on my wife's Ram and she never downshifts to slow down. Just throws it in neutral and clamps on the binders!
Why would you replace the rotors if they are not warped or not serviceable? It's not like you will get better braking just cause the rotors are new.
I wouldn't even reccomend having them turned unless they are warped. You can scuff them up when installing the new pads and the the new pads will bed in fine.