Newbie: Towing TT w/ 2008 Toyota Sequoia

[stevevalwa]

The camping bug bit my wife over the summer so we decided to attend the RV Expo in Boston over the past weekend. She fell in love with the 2018 Rockwood 2706WS and after two days of looking at smaller options, we decided the Rockwood fits our family best as the 3 kids are growing fast. I remember looking in my Sequoia's owners manual before the show for the towing capacity and all I remembered was 9000 lbs. Although seeing the GVWR of 8800 lbs for the TT scared me, I convinced myself the Sequoia can handle it as I wouldn't tow with potable water. I obviously should have done more due diligence... So after spending the morning researching towing with the Sequoia, and how to calculate the weights using the TV & TT ratings, the main takeaway from the research is that Toyota has downgraded the max towing capacity of this TV to ~7600lbs applying a new standard (J2807). This has been well documented in other posts. So I've come up with the following calculations for my set-up:



So, sanity check time:

1.) I made an assumption on my hitch weight based on Rockwood's publicized 804 lbs assuming they got that number using the TT's GVWR. Is that reasonable or should I have just used the 804# number?
2.) I did purchase a WD hitch but I don't know the specifics (yet). Do these really weight a few hundred lbs? If so, I definitely need to include that in the calcs.
3.) For the experienced towers/campers that actually weigh their rigs, is 950 lbs. of dry cargo even a reasonable number for a TT this big? I would assume we have to pack incredibly light... and that may be a challenge knowing my wife.
4.) What other thoughts do you have besides the obvious I need to upgrade my tow vehicle? Will do so in time.

[Grit_dog]

These threads always turn into a train wreck.....staying out, lol

[RinconVTR]

intheburbs wrote:


So then, by your own admission, you're saying that the Sequoia can tow a 9100-lb trailer. Sure, no one on this thread might be doing it, but you (and others) are saying it can do it.

And then there are those of us who have experience towing trailers that large and heavy who are saying that it'd be a really bad idea. Short wheelbase, half-ton truck? Yeah, good luck with that.

What the H is wrong with you?

Spec is 9100 for most 5.7L Sequoias out there and about 2k less after 2012. That's spec!

This SUV and most half tons are maxed at GVWR out well before the towing capacity is met! So all the talk about 9k lbs???


BUT. Let's claim said 9100lb trailer had a 8-10% tongue weight, now there's no problem at all.


Finally, just because I have towed with SUV's the last number of years, doesn't mean I've never towed 5th wheels and TT's with large trucks. I've been deep into RV's my entire life along with 2 generations before me.

And only a fool would talk down to someone based on their tow vehicle choice and make assumptions about them. I made an educated choice and have zero need and desire for a pick up truck. All it would do for me is burn money.

[intheburbs]

RinconVTR wrote:

stevevalwa wrote:

intheburbs wrote:

Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight... - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload.

.

Who's towing a 9100lb trailer within this thread? No one.

Mine is 6800lbs - loaded - scaled.

Do I have to count the number of responses contradicting my post regarding the Trailer Life tow rating of the Sequoia vs the sales brochure? Including you?

RinconVTR wrote:
BTW, nearly everyone is wrong about the Sequoia's tow ratings.

The Sequoia's top end tow capacity is 9100lbs prior to 2012...when it dropped to 7300lbs via SAE performance test.

GCWR was 16,500lbs and is now 13,600lbs

RinconVTR wrote:
Oh, I am very knowledgeable on the topic of weight and capacities, I assure you. You're opinion is that trucks can handle more, as anything can handle more than a given design specification, but those ratings are solid and need to be adhered to.

Ignorance is ignoring OEM ratings and you're an absolute fool to say anything on the contrary. End of story.

So then, by your own admission, you're saying that the Sequoia can tow a 9100-lb trailer. Sure, no one on this thread might be doing it, but you (and others) are saying it can do it.

And then there are those of us who have experience towing trailers that large and heavy who are saying that it'd be a really bad idea. Short wheelbase, half-ton truck? Yeah, good luck with that.

[IdaD]

RinconVTR wrote:

IdaD wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:

IdaD wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.

The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.

Riiiiight....wink wink

You are welcome to be ignorant on the topic if you'd like but you'd be well advised to stop commenting on it until you do some research. You seem like you're bright enough to figure it out if you actually looked into it.

Oh, I am very knowledgeable on the topic of weight and capacities, I assure you. You're opinion is that trucks can handle more, as anything can handle more than a given design specification, but those ratings are solid and need to be adhered to.

Ignorance is ignoring OEM ratings and you're an absolute fool to say anything on the contrary. End of story.

It's cringeworthy how wrong you are on this particular topic, but I'm dropping it to not derail OPs thread. Carry on with the Toyota talk.

[SoundGuy]

stevevalwa wrote:
So at 804lbs on the hitch and 6650lbs behind you, and a Hensley WDH, you wouldn't tow this with the Sequoia?

You're either ignoring all the good information that's been offered OR you just don't "get it" ... this trailer you have won't weigh just 6650 lbs nor will it be running anywhere near just 804 lbs of gross tongue weight. If you just can't accept this as fact then there's little else the rest of us can do to help you. :R I'm done ... good luck. 🙂

[RinconVTR]

IdaD wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:

IdaD wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.

The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.

Riiiiight....wink wink

You are welcome to be ignorant on the topic if you'd like but you'd be well advised to stop commenting on it until you do some research. You seem like you're bright enough to figure it out if you actually looked into it.

Oh, I am very knowledgeable on the topic of weight and capacities, I assure you. You're opinion is that trucks can handle more, as anything can handle more than a given design specification, but those ratings are solid and need to be adhered to.

Ignorance is ignoring OEM ratings and you're an absolute fool to say anything on the contrary. End of story.

[RinconVTR]

stevevalwa wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:


Seriously man...you should take my posts very seriously.

Do not tow that trailer with the Sequoia.

Add to that...I REPEAT that I would NEVER tow a trailer that long without the Hensley. This is not a joke or exaggeration.

So at 804lbs on the hitch and 6650lbs behind you, and a Hensley WDH, you wouldn't tow this with the Sequoia? I got the impression you would as it's very similar to what you're doing now...

As I and so many have stated...those dry weights are bunk. In reality, you will be well beyond those numbers. Too far.

My answer has been NO...DO NOT TOW that trailer...from the beginning.

[IdaD]

RinconVTR wrote:

IdaD wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.

The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.

Riiiiight....wink wink

You are welcome to be ignorant on the topic if you'd like but you'd be well advised to stop commenting on it until you do some research. You seem like you're bright enough to figure it out if you actually looked into it.

[stevevalwa]

RinconVTR wrote:


Seriously man...you should take my posts very seriously.

Do not tow that trailer with the Sequoia.

Add to that...I REPEAT that I would NEVER tow a trailer that long without the Hensley. This is not a joke or exaggeration.

So at 804lbs on the hitch and 6650lbs behind you, and a Hensley WDH, you wouldn't tow this with the Sequoia? I got the impression you would as it's very similar to what you're doing now...

[SoundGuy]

RinconVTR wrote:
Who's towing a 9100lb trailer within this thread? No one.

Mine is 6800lbs - loaded - scaled.

No, but realistically this trailer the OP intends to tow is going to weigh at least 8000 lbs with an average gross tongue weight that won't be any less than ~ 1100 lbs which is FAR too much for his Sequoia. What yours weighs has nothing to do with this. 😉

FWIW, a friend who owned a 32' Starcraft Antigua towed with a 4.7L Sequoia BUT that trailer weighed significantly less, ~ 6200 lbs loaded & ready to camp, AND he had Can-Am in London, Ontario reinforce his hitch, AND he used a Hensley Arrow to couple the two together. It worked well on our 4 week trip west and during a panic stop that would have otherwise have had him contesting space on a railway crossing with a freight train the combination worked really well ... 'though he did have to change his underwear immediately after! :W

[RinconVTR]

stevevalwa wrote:


I am confident I can get it home empty/dry as it's well within the Sequoia's capability. Whether I get the nerve to load it up and travel through the nearest metro area to get to the closest CAT station 25 miles away is another story... I don't feel good about my prospects of the tongue weight being 950 or less by loading stuff behind the rear axle... the major storage compartment on this TT is a pass through right behind the hitch. I will definitely find out where the potable water tank is though.

Seriously man...you should take my posts very seriously.

Do not tow that trailer with the Sequoia.

Add to that...I REPEAT that I would NEVER tow a trailer that long without the Hensley. This is not a joke or exaggeration.

[SoundGuy]

stevevalwa wrote:
I don't feel good about my prospects of the tongue weight being 950 or less by loading stuff behind the rear axle... the major storage compartment on this TT is a pass through right behind the hitch. I will definitely find out where the potable water tank is though.

Based on this comment I'm guessing you either ignored or choose to not believe what I posted earlier ...

"Trying to the find ways to lower the trailer's gross tongue weight just to better accommodate your Sequoia's limited towing capability is exactly what you don't want to do - too low and you could easily be all over the road, particularly with such a long trailer and such a short wheelbase vehicle. Rather, you should be aiming for 13% - 14% of the trailer's average gross weight, loaded & ready to camp, and if it's too much for your Sequoia, then it's too much."

Your fresh water holding tank is most likely located where most are - over the axles where it will have the least impact on gross tongue weight whether empty or full.

[RinconVTR]

stevevalwa wrote:

intheburbs wrote:

Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight... - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload.

.

Who's towing a 9100lb trailer within this thread? No one.

Mine is 6800lbs - loaded - scaled.

[RinconVTR]

IdaD wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.

The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.

Riiiiight....wink wink

[stevevalwa]

intheburbs wrote:

Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight... - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload.

This is exactly the conclusion I reached last night with everyone's help. I'm limited by the Sequoia's payload capability. Reading through the Tundra forums, it seems generally accepted that the real ratings for the 2008-2009 Sequoia are in line with the 2010-Current years as basically nothing has changed with the frame and 5.7L engine/transmission combo in that time. Toyota clearly made a mistake in towing capacity probably based on the 400 ft/lbs of torque that engine makes coupled with the 4.30:1 axle. I'm sure it has no issue pulling the load, just not rated for the real world downward axle stress a typical 8-9k load exerts on the hitch as many have noted.

I am confident I can get it home empty/dry as it's well within the Sequoia's capability. Whether I get the nerve to load it up and travel through the nearest metro area to get to the closest CAT station 25 miles away is another story... I don't feel good about my prospects of the tongue weight being 950 or less by loading stuff behind the rear axle... the major storage compartment on this TT is a pass through right behind the hitch. I will definitely find out where the potable water tank is though.