Passport 2400bh or Apex 245bhs and tow question

[MichiganCampers]

First off, hello from a new joiner! My wife, 7yo son and I already enjoy camping in a Coachmen Apex Nano 193bhs. When we bought it a year and a half ago, it was the only camper that checked all of our must have boxes. A slide out, bunks, regular bed and mattress, very towable, full bath. We have had a lot of great experiences with it. But..... while searching for other related rv stuff, I came across the newly released Apex Nano 208bhs. The 208 offers everything we would have changed about our 193 and fixes some gripes, plus adds a couple other nice features with only a couple small drawbacks. I don't need to get into any of that however, as after towing my 193 around I feel I can handle a bigger camper than the 208 anyway. I think. So, my first question is, how reasonable is towing a 4700# dry weight camper with my 2016 Chevy Colorado? It has the gas V6 and is rated for 7000# towing and 1580# payload. Mine also has the 6 speed auto. The numbers support either of the campers I have in mind, but there is somewhat mixed feelings about its capability online. I would like to hear from real world users towing similarly sized rvs with my truck before I get into something that is a little more than I should. We would like to take a multiple hundred mile trip next year that I am mostly worried about. Normally we camp close to home and it won't be an issue if it's close to max for those times.

Part two is, after researching a lot of campers, I have narrowed my choices to the Keystone Passport 2400bh and the Apex 245bhs. If my truck is appropriate. I will not be changing my vehicle, regardless. I have ruled out all campers at or nearer to 5000#. If these are more than I should handle, I will consider the 208 or possibly staying with the 193. Of the two, which would you recommend? Especially if you have owned either. Both have a ton of positives over each other. Some negatives and some unknowns. I will list my feelings on each for those unfamiliar and to better understand my preferences.

Apex 245bhs.
Frameless window option. Very sharp looking.
Outdoor shower location at rear and near camp kitchen. (2400 backside)
Power jack.
Front bedroom has open shelf above head with power for stuff.
10' 2" height MIGHT fit in 10' tall door. (2400 10'8" no hope)
Bunks have shelves with power outlet near for electronics and stuff.
Has regular drawers in kitchen, not hidden in-cabinet drawers.
Slide out has small cabinets in corners for extra storage.
TV spins to bedroom or living area.
Sink is recessed for flat surface with cover. (2400bh raised sink)
90" wide may help for towing visibility and economy. (But less room)
Counter protrudes less into open area for more room. (2400 L-shape sticks out)

Passport 2400bh.
96" wide likely will feel roomier but create towing concerns.
Axles are further apart for help with controlling sway.
Camp kitchen has sink. (245 does not)
Under bunk storage. (245 does not)
Much larger counter space.
Bunk lights can be reached without crawling in.
Camp kitchen has slide out trays, really increasing utility.
Front bedroom has sliding doors. (245 has curtains)
Pantry shelves can be removed and has bar for hanging clothes.

I do not know if the 245 has an enclosed underbelly. The 2400 advertises it does.
245 slide out floor is raised as compared to flush on 2400. I do not know which is better.
2400 looks to have stove for camp kitchen. 245 has removable grill. I a can see both being beneficial.
I am assuming that they can be purchased for similar enough price that it will be irrelevant. If there is more than a $2500 difference, it will change considerations.

I am leaning toward one more than the other already, but don't want to bias responses that will affirm or dissuade based on my preference.

Anyone that read this whole post and/or replies, thank you so much for your time!

[rbpru]

Pick the floor plan you think you want, rent it or a very similar unit, all of your question will be answered in very short order, if you include a trip to the CAT scales.

If you do not like the answer, you give it back before you have spent the big bucks.

Good Luck

[MichiganCampers]

Seen a Canyon V6 in the campground last night with a Keystone Passport 2510. Dry weight of around 5k. Said it tows really good, he keeps it around 60mph. He also said he had a Honda Ridgeline he used to tow with and the motor went on it. Ouch! Nice to see a direct comparison with my own eyes. Thanks for all the informative and helpful comments everyone made.

[mountainkowboy]

MichiganCampers wrote:
So, at a 1000 lbs, did that include a filled water tank or empty?

That was with the water tank full...

We towed a 5,200lb travel trailer with my Ranger and climbing hills she would run 6,000 rpm at times but never cared and did it happily. According to the manual my tow/haul is OD off button, at 65 mph that nets me 3,500 rpm and 11 mpg towing at that weight. We did 450 miles round trip and the Ranger performed well...my little Ranger tows near it max rather well. As long as your within the trucks capabilities I wouldn't worry about it.

[SoundGuy]

MichiganCampers wrote:
Decided to go with the Coachmen Apex 245BHS. Getting a really good price on an '18, but have to drive to Cincinnati to pick it up (5 hour drive). I guess I'll find out right away how well the truck can handle it.

Unlikely, as a brand new trailer picked up from a dealer won't weigh anywhere near what it will later, loaded & ready to camp. It's also not unlikely you may have to readjust your weight distribution once you've figured out your camping load. Congrats on your new trailer and good luck. :B

[MichiganCampers]

SoundGuy wrote:
My Coachmen Freedom Express came with a grill that pulls out of the sidewall so the first thing I did was swap it out for a stove - no way I want a grill that smokes and leaves behind a greasy grilling smell anywhere near the camper. A 2-burner Coleman camp stove doesn't, for grilling I park a Weber Q120 on the campsite picnic table well away from the camper.

Regardless of the mocking no way I'd pull either of these trailers with anything less than my V8 Silverado. :R

Yeah, I worry about a grill also. Am probably going to give it a chance though. Have a Weber Q also. Really like it, but wouldn't mind having something easier to store. As far as towing, obviously full size is the way to go, but I'm not giving up my truck. I feel like it's going to be ok with what we're looking at. Decided to go with the Coachmen Apex 245BHS. Getting a really good price on an '18, but have to drive to Cincinnati to pick it up (5 hour drive). I guess I'll find out right away how well the truck can handle it. Nervous though. I haven't towed anything that large which I'm not terribly worried about, but that is a long haul for me. Everywhere we've gone has been inside of an hour.

[SoundGuy]

MichiganCampers wrote:
I do not know if the 245 has an enclosed underbelly. The 2400 advertises it does.
245 slide out floor is raised as compared to flush on 2400. I do not know which is better.
2400 looks to have stove for camp kitchen. 245 has removable grill. I a can see both being beneficial.
I am assuming that they can be purchased for similar enough price that it will be irrelevant. If there is more than a $2500 difference, it will change considerations.

I've owned trailers with enclosed underbellies, those without, and far prefer without as all the cables, hoses, etc are neatly dressed and I can see everything vs an enclosed underbelly within which all the cables & hoses will run hodgepodge without being properly secured and within which I can't see anything, including the inadequately supported fresh water tank - which it surely will be in almost every case. :E

I personally won't buy any trailer with an elevated slide floor as it makes me feel like a mannequin on display when seated at the dinette - personal choice. 😄

My Coachmen Freedom Express came with a grill that pulls out of the sidewall so the first thing I did was swap it out for a stove - no way I want a grill that smokes and leaves behind a greasy grilling smell anywhere near the camper. A 2-burner Coleman camp stove doesn't, for grilling I park a Weber Q120 on the campsite picnic table well away from the camper.

Regardless of the mocking no way I'd pull either of these trailers with anything less than my V8 Silverado. :R

[Rover_Bill]

MichiganCampers wrote:
Wow that’s awesome to hear! Even with my smaller camper, the rpm’s will climb pretty high and I see stories of these trucks running 4500+ rpm’s for extended periods hauling larger trailers, but are meant to handle it. Do you experience that kind of rpm with yours? Also, I read about rear suspension trouble after a couple years of towing. Do you have upgraded suspension or notice any premature wear? What Passport model do you own? Any gripes about it? Thanks for the info.

Depending on your highway speed and road grade it's not unusual for the engine to run between 5,000 and 6,000 RPM especially when you're accelerating around a slow semi (6,500 redline). Even with very long uphill climbs at 5,500 RPM, the engine does not heat up! The Canyon does not report trans. temp. but my DirecLink brake controller does show a trans. temp. index number and it doesn't increase when climbing.

The computer in my Canyon does engine braking - automatically when in Tow/Haul mode and manually when I tap the brake peddle while going downhill and not in cruise control.

Rear suspension trouble? Don't have any and I have not modified or upgraded it from the stock setup. I don't anticipate any issues because the Recurve R6 WDH with 1,200# bars distributes the TT weight perfectly - 2,650# steering axle and 2,650# drive axle (per CAT scales). Unloaded, the steering axle weighs in at 2,660#.

My TT is a 31 ft 2016 Keystone Passport Grand Touring model 2670BH. It's rated at 7,000# GVWR. At MAX, fully loaded for camping with a full 40 gal. fresh water tank, half full black tank, empty grey tank, 2-20# propane tanks, 1-12V battery, 2000 inverter generator, 2 adult bicycles, two weeks of food and drink, tools and ladder, tips the CAT scales at 6,950#. DW and I love it for the extra room provided by the single, very large slideout. It is an excellent towing match for the Canyon.

[MichiganCampers]

Wow that’s awesome to hear! Even with my smaller camper, the rpm’s will climb pretty high and I see stories of these trucks running 4500+ rpm’s for extended periods hauling larger trailers, but are meant to handle it. Do you experience that kind of rpm with yours? Also, I read about rear suspension trouble after a couple years of towing. Do you have upgraded suspension or notice any premature wear? What Passport model do you own? Any gripes about it? Thanks for the info.

[Rover_Bill]

I am VERY HAPPY towing my 7000# GVWR Passport TT (6,950# ACTUAL, fully loaded camping weight per CAT scales) with my 2015 GMC Canyon! I've been towing that TT for 2 years now and have clocked over 14,000 trouble free towing miles. We've made very long trips (3-4 months) to New England including the mountains of Vermont, New Hampshire and New York and across the Great Plains to Glacier, Banff, and Jasper in Canada.

Expect to get about 10 mpg average while towing on interstates at 65-70 mph. My best was 11+ mpg doing 70-75 mph on a flat interstate with a good tail wind and worst was 9 mpg doing 75 mph with a very strong head wind. (I know -- I got a lead foot).

Two things to remember when towing with your Colorado: 1) ALWAYS, ALWAYS use the Tow/Haul mode and turn it on EACH time you start towing. 2) Always use cruise control when on interstates or long deserted rural highways. The truck's computer will determine the best combination of engine speed and transmission gear to give you the best towing power for your desired highway speed. Don't be shocked when the engine revs up to 6,000 RPM - that V6 is designed to handle that RPM to output towing power.

Enjoy towing with your Colorado! I LOVE my Canyon!

[MichiganCampers]

So, at a 1000 lbs, did that include a filled water tank or empty?

[mountainkowboy]

Don't see an issue, but be aware there are those that will spew doom and gloom if not towing with a 1/2 ton or bigger. That being said we've found that if you add 1,000lbs to the dry weight, you'll be close to a ready to camp weight rather than at GVWR. That was true with our 3 C/O's, 5er's, and Moho's, they all came in around 1K over dry or around 400-600lbs above wet, some units had HUGE water tanks.

[MichiganCampers]

Yeah, if you're towing with a full water tank that definitely jacks up the weight. (8.3 lbs a gallon for water). We won't do that for sure. We also try to make some choices to keep weight down, even in our small camper. I certainly hope we don't cross 1000 extra pounds, but I've never weighed our camper loaded either. Maybe I'll get it done before we go out (next week). That will give me an accurate idea of what I will have in any subsequent camper. Thanks for your input! Hopefully, some others will have thoughts on loaded weights too.

[MitchF150]

I've weighed mine, and it weighs every bit of #5000+... Don't know how all the weight adds up so fast, but I weigh with a full fresh tank of water, which I ALWAYS carry (30 gallons) so that's just part of the deal.

I have made a lot of mods to the trailer that has added weight and I take way too much stuff that I don't even use most of the time, but when it's needed, I am glad I have it.. 🙂

I like to cook with cast iron pans on the fire pit and on the camp stove, so there is that.. I have a HOME queen size bed mattress that is a lot heavier than the thing that came with the trailer.. I use real glass drinking glasses and Corelle plates and dishes, actual metal flatware and on and on...

I've been "camping" since I was a kid with my folks and I'm 55 years old now, so I've been thru it all and this is just the way that works for me.. 🙂

I won't even go into what I take in the bed of the truck! ha, ha!! I have half of my tools in the bed! "Just in case".. 🙂

I don't know how many times I've helped fellow campers with tools and other stuff I just happen to have and they didn't.. Makes me feel good and I enjoy the whole experience all that much better...

How many of you would be able to handle your grey tank falling out of your trailer while parked in camp?? I did it.. Twice! All on a Sunday, with just my wife and I and all that extra stuff I haul along..

The reason I had to do it twice was the fist time, I didn't take the time while at home to check the fix and make sure the screws I used didn't back out the next year!

Anyway, do what you need to do to enjoy your camping experience. That's all I can say and I tow what I tow with what I tow with it for my own enjoyment.

Mitch

[MichiganCampers]

My understanding of GVWR is the maximum the weakest part of the unit can support. Be it the tires or the axles or the frame itself. The 245 has a gross weight of 6500#. I could not find the gross weight on the 2400, but it does say it has a 2070# carrying capacity. That leads me to believe its gross weight is between 6500 and 7500 lbs. There is no way I am loading a trailer with 1800-2100# of stuff. I am surprised that you are getting 1400# in yours, unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying. The GVWR again, I believe, is maximum recommended. Not how much it ways when loaded. If you don't fill your fresh water tank or pull with full black/gray tank it's unlikely any of us are getting near our GVWR. I do realize though a 4700# camper will be significantly heavier loaded. I am figuring 500 to 1000 lbs though. Maybe others can shed some light on this and share their thoughts on how much heavier a loaded trailer is than its dry weight.