Ram 2500 5.7 hemi mpg.....a bit disappointed

Fixed Sight Training wrote:
More math:
Gasser 12.37 mpg avg. (9 mpg pulling, 13.5MT) 25% of the mi pulling a trailer =
200,000 mi 16.168 total gals. Average $3 = $48,500 total fuel


Diesel fuel has about 20% more energy than gasoline. 11 mpg pulling 16.2 MT. This is pretty accurate for milage as well so 12.37 mpg(1.2) 14.8 AVERAGE

200,000 miles = 13.513 gal of diesel. If diesel and gas were the same price you would save about $8k in fuel over 200,000 mi. To break even you have to find diesel for an average of only 20% more than gas or $3.60/ galloon average. Diesel certainly averages more than that here in Denver.

These numbers are close to what diesels really get but many diesel drivers are about as honest as hybrid drivers when it comes to milage.

What used to make diesels great was there cheaper fuel, kerosene used to be really cheap, and the simple reliability of the diesel engine. Neither is the case anymore.

Other than that the cost of the diesel is higher but you will get a large percentage of that back when you sell it if it still runs.
The cost of scheduled maintenance is higher in a diesel and there is a good change it will need $thousands in repairs at some point.
There is really no part of a diesel that makes them economical anymore but they pull really well.

Don't know about the others but my Prius easily returns it's 52~mpg city and 47~mpg highway EPA rating. My Cummins Rams all gave 18.5~city, 19~highway and 10.5~towing. My 5.4L F250 and previous Hemi powered 2500HD delivered 11-14 city, 17~highway and 8.5~ towing 60-65mph. While I agree with most of your post, I think it's mighty condescending to just arbitrarily call an entire group of people liars.

spoon059 wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
Why are people fixated with the cost of the diesel option?

A better question... Why are people fixated with what somebody else drives?

A lot of people, myself included, have this thing called a BUDGET. We have a certain amount of money that we can justify to spend based upon wants versus needs. Truth be told, having a truck and a camper is a WANT for my family and I, not a NEED. We NEED a house, food, electricity and clothing. We WANT to be able to go camping for recreational reasons.

I bought a gas engine truck for $30K that was plenty of truck for my trailer at the time and is plenty of truck for my current trailer. There was no sense to me to pay significantly more money up front for a truck that has more expensive fuel for marginally better towing capabilities; for a truck that isn't conducive with daily driving short distances more often than towing; for a truck that MIGHT garner a higher premium when I sell it (although not likely high enough to cover the cost of the more expensive engine, fuel or maintenance).

The gas engine was a great option for me. 5 years later it still meets my needs and hauls my trailer without a hiccup.

For people that tow heavier weights or routinely tow at higher elevations than a diesel is an obvious choice. If you want to go out and drop $60K on a loaded diesel truck, have at it. For me and my family, a $30K gas truck was the right match.

I don't look down upon you for a diesel, not sure why I get looked down upon for owning a gasser.

Lots of gems in here. My favorites are marginally better towing, a diesel "might" have better resale or the notion that the choice is between a $30k gas truck or a $60k diesel truck.

Look, I could care less what you drive, but a big diesel tows substantially better than even a heavy gas truck (let alone a half ton) and will have much higher resale value. As far as comparing $30k to $60k, you're comparing apples to oranges. At the same trim level the difference is more like $6-8k in the real world.

The overall cost of ownership difference is largely immaterial. I happen to think a diesel will cost slightly less in most cases but relative to what you'll spend on the truck, fuel, maintenance, tires, and etc, it's a minor difference either way. So really anybody making this decision ought to base it mostly on preference. If paying a little more up front is a problem, go gas. If it isn't, pick what you prefer.

goducks10 wrote:
Why are people fixated with the cost of the diesel option?

A better question... Why are people fixated with what somebody else drives?

A lot of people, myself included, have this thing called a BUDGET. We have a certain amount of money that we can justify to spend based upon wants versus needs. Truth be told, having a truck and a camper is a WANT for my family and I, not a NEED. We NEED a house, food, electricity and clothing. We WANT to be able to go camping for recreational reasons.

I bought a gas engine truck for $30K that was plenty of truck for my trailer at the time and is plenty of truck for my current trailer. There was no sense to me to pay significantly more money up front for a truck that has more expensive fuel for marginally better towing capabilities; for a truck that isn't conducive with daily driving short distances more often than towing; for a truck that MIGHT garner a higher premium when I sell it (although not likely high enough to cover the cost of the more expensive engine, fuel or maintenance).

The gas engine was a great option for me. 5 years later it still meets my needs and hauls my trailer without a hiccup.

For people that tow heavier weights or routinely tow at higher elevations than a diesel is an obvious choice. If you want to go out and drop $60K on a loaded diesel truck, have at it. For me and my family, a $30K gas truck was the right match.

I don't look down upon you for a diesel, not sure why I get looked down upon for owning a gasser.

More math:
Gasser 12.37 mpg avg. (9 mpg pulling, 13.5MT) 25% of the mi pulling a trailer =
200,000 mi 16.168 total gals. Average $3 = $48,500 total fuel


Diesel fuel has about 20% more energy than gasoline. 11 mpg pulling 16.2 MT. This is pretty accurate for milage as well so 12.37 mpg(1.2) 14.8 AVERAGE

200,000 miles = 13.513 gal of diesel. If diesel and gas were the same price you would save about $8k in fuel over 200,000 mi. To break even you have to find diesel for an average of only 20% more than gas or $3.60/ galloon average. Diesel certainly averages more than that here in Denver.

These numbers are close to what diesels really get but many diesel drivers are about as honest as hybrid drivers when it comes to milage.

What used to make diesels great was there cheaper fuel, kerosene used to be really cheap, and the simple reliability of the diesel engine. Neither is the case anymore.

Other than that the cost of the diesel is higher but you will get a large percentage of that back when you sell it if it still runs.
The cost of scheduled maintenance is higher in a diesel and there is a good change it will need $thousands in repairs at some point.
There is really no part of a diesel that makes them economical anymore but they pull really well.

If you pay $8k more for something new, I would certainly hope you would get more for it when it's time to sell it. I've always wanted a Bentley Continental. That I could get more for it at five years old than my Prius doesn't justify the cost or make it more affordable. :B

Resale value is the kicker.

Why are people fixated with the cost of the diesel option? If you trade the diesel in, the $8,000 option doesn't disappear. It's not a cost off ownership factor. You don't need carpet, better radio, nav, leather or a sunroof either. It's no different than going from the base 5.7 to the 6.4 Hemi or the base 3.5 Ford to a 3.5 EB. It cost $2300 dollars more for the 3.5 EB over the base 3.5. I don't hear anyone saying that impacts ownership. No one says that paying $60,000 for a Laramie Longhorn with a 6.4 is hurting the cost of ownership. But when someone spends $45,000 on an SLT 6.7 CTD then they ridicule the diesel option.

4X4Dodger wrote:

IdaD wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:

IdaD wrote:

spoon059 wrote:
Think of how much $$$ you saved versus buying a diesel. That will buy a LOT of gasoline!!!

I know there's a little bit of debate about this, but when you actually pencil out all the numbers your total cost of ownership is typically lower with the diesel motor. Maybe not in some cases like the wrong model year Powerstroke since some didn't hold up as well with resale. But in most cases if you factor in the up front cost, fuel expense, likely required maintenance and resale value, you'll come out a little big ahead with the diesel option.

The trick of course is whether you're comfortable with paying more up front for an overall lower cost. Think of it like a light bulb. Are you an LED guy or an incandescent guy? The one that costs more up front actually costs quite a bit less in the long run.

I guess the other trick is personal preference. Some people simply prefer a gas truck or a nice soft incandescent bulb.

You must be using a different calculator than me. When I figure it with all the additional costs including more oil per change more changes, the exhaust fluid, the fuel filters, and the higher price of Diesel Fuel by as much as a dollar in some states including the 9-10 Thousand Dollar premium for the Diesel option at purchase there is no way to recoup that in a normal lifetime much less come out ahead.

Long Life, Pulling power and personal preference as you say are all good reasons to buy a Diesel but economy is not one of them any longer. (and truly the pulling power difference with Gas is shrinking fast) When Diesel Fuel was still cheaper than Gasoline the equation made more economic sense for sure but those days are gone.

I think the biggest reason (unspoken and unacknowledged of course) for guys buying Diesels is they love the sound, they love to leave them idle, it makes them feel like they have a "Big" truck and it gives them a little of that John Wayne crashing through the Saloon Doors with both six guns blazing feeling. None of which is bad mind you but it's still not a valid economic argument.

http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/20130311_cd_umtritcofinalreport_dd2017.pdf

I've also run the numbers in my own situation many times and diesel always comes out a little ahead. Again you do have to be willing and able to pay more up front, and I understand that doesn't work for some people.

Just curious...did you include the cost of the diesel option in the original purchase price when you did those numbers? And were you using current prices for diesel fuel?

Sure I did. Guessing on fuel prices is necessary but frought with uncertainty. Last few years in my area diesel and gas tent to be priced about the same in the summer or at least reasonably close, but then in the winter gas drops quite a bit. So yeah I guestimated on what I thought might be a typical spread (figure diesel at maybe $.75 more on average).

But you also have to keep in mind things could be wildly different in five years, for better or worse. Still worth thinking about though, and it's real easy to build a spreadsheet in excel where you can play with all the variables.

IdaD wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:

IdaD wrote:

spoon059 wrote:
Think of how much $$$ you saved versus buying a diesel. That will buy a LOT of gasoline!!!

I know there's a little bit of debate about this, but when you actually pencil out all the numbers your total cost of ownership is typically lower with the diesel motor. Maybe not in some cases like the wrong model year Powerstroke since some didn't hold up as well with resale. But in most cases if you factor in the up front cost, fuel expense, likely required maintenance and resale value, you'll come out a little big ahead with the diesel option.

The trick of course is whether you're comfortable with paying more up front for an overall lower cost. Think of it like a light bulb. Are you an LED guy or an incandescent guy? The one that costs more up front actually costs quite a bit less in the long run.

I guess the other trick is personal preference. Some people simply prefer a gas truck or a nice soft incandescent bulb.

You must be using a different calculator than me. When I figure it with all the additional costs including more oil per change more changes, the exhaust fluid, the fuel filters, and the higher price of Diesel Fuel by as much as a dollar in some states including the 9-10 Thousand Dollar premium for the Diesel option at purchase there is no way to recoup that in a normal lifetime much less come out ahead.

Long Life, Pulling power and personal preference as you say are all good reasons to buy a Diesel but economy is not one of them any longer. (and truly the pulling power difference with Gas is shrinking fast) When Diesel Fuel was still cheaper than Gasoline the equation made more economic sense for sure but those days are gone.

I think the biggest reason (unspoken and unacknowledged of course) for guys buying Diesels is they love the sound, they love to leave them idle, it makes them feel like they have a "Big" truck and it gives them a little of that John Wayne crashing through the Saloon Doors with both six guns blazing feeling. None of which is bad mind you but it's still not a valid economic argument.

http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/20130311_cd_umtritcofinalreport_dd2017.pdf

I've also run the numbers in my own situation many times and diesel always comes out a little ahead. Again you do have to be willing and able to pay more up front, and I understand that doesn't work for some people.

Just curious...did you include the cost of the diesel option in the original purchase price when you did those numbers? And were you using current prices for diesel fuel?

6.7 tow rig wrote:

gmcsmoke wrote:
you're driving a 3.5 ton brick down the road 75 MPH with a 400 HP engine and you're complaining about MPG?

Amen. These posts are ridiculous. It's a truck. It's used for work that only trucks do. If you want mpgs get a vehicle designed for that. Then if it doesn't get the mpgs you want, you have something to be disappointed about. It's like buying a Prius and being disappointed it can't pull a TT.

I always appreciate those posts that slam people instead of offering information that might be beneficial to the folks that are actually constructive or seeking relevant information.